Gasoline is less than $3 a gallon

Or maybe the American Taxpayer. As the propellers go up I45 I wonder how much tax payer money was given to GE and Jeffery Immelt.

Remember, the key word is "cheap." I don't remember my electric bill going down the last 5-10 years. I do remember Californians rejecting the wind turbines as "unsightly."

I look forward to examining your cost/benefit numbers and their sources!

Originally Posted by gnadfly

Both you and LexusLiar missed the point. You were trying to blame Obama. Remember when you asked this:

On a side note, where's all that cheap "clean" energy that Obama promised?

When in fact it is Texas leading the way in wind energy. So I ask you two is it bad technology when Obama promotes it and good when Texas Republicans promote it?

The left will never understand that at this time and for the forseeable future, there is no replacement for what the oil industry does for our economy. Wothout it we would be in a worse depression than the last one. It is a shmae that the leftists states cnnot grasp the concept of economic and tax value that is the energy industry. Originally Posted by The2Dogs

I'm painted as on the so called left and I understand very well what a boom it is to our economy, what you idiots forget is that we must take closer looks at what fracking may be doing to our water sources. If you do not understand those long term implications , then you do not give one shit about future generations.

Ah yes wTF resorts to calling people idiots because he falsely believes he knows better.
It is sort of like the left trying to convince people that the hold up on approving the pipeline from Canada has something to do with the environment. Meanwhile Warren's train wrecks and spills oil all over the place but of course nobody is concerned about the environmental damage that causes.

Fracturing has been going on for almost as long as there have been oil wells. Before hydraulic fracturing it was done by perforation using explosives. The main difference is it is being done in horizontal wells and uses fluid rather than explosives.

Natural gas has been found in underground water supplies for as long as there have been water wells. It does not occur in all wells, just the ones where the gas is close enough to the surface. Nothing new.

We could also enter into a discussion about how taking water from underground creates their own set of environmental issues including but not limited to subsidence. Maybe we should put a halt to water wells untill we study them for, oh lets say as long as they have studied the proposed pipeline.

This thread is yet another filled with hypocrisy, if Obama likes it, its bad somehow . If something good happens its not to his credit. Obama has been blamed for high gas prices from day one, but now that its has lowered its bad?
Just like the bail out, if its good its Bush that done it, if its bad it is Obama that did it. Same thing with the wind power. I am just amazed at the audacity of the Republican party sometimes. It is like reality and logic have no bearing on what you guys will think or say.
Even when your double standard is pointed out you still keep on like nothing happened. I hardly ever go a day with out a face to face discussion with a die hard republican . I never see this type of BS in person. I say you guys for the most part hide behind a keyboard and figure you are anonymous so who cares. It makes you small in my book.
If you really thought Obama was that bad you would not have to use so many double standards and manipulations of facts to defend your positions.

Both you and LexusLiar missed the point. You were trying to blame Obama. Remember when you asked this:

On a side note, where's all that cheap "clean" energy that Obama promised?

When in fact it is Texas leading the way in wind energy. So I ask you two is it bad technology when Obama promotes it and good when Texas Republicans promote it? Originally Posted by WTF

Hardly. Please don't project on me your poor reading comprehension and inability to form logical conclusions.

Obama came into office promoting a clean energy agenda, wanting to get rid of coal and expand renewables significantly. His expand renewables didn't happen. The Texas wind energy project is relatively insignificant, may be more expensive and generally wasn't developed "on his watch." Obama was anti natural gas, now he's embraced it. It would make much more economic sense to develop more NG powered electric plants. I haven't seen it being pushed by the current administration.

About your "bad technology" question...its a bad question. I believe the wind turbine offers some promise and that we should have some mix of power sources although some may be a very small portion. In the end though, the market should set the policy which is driving down the cost for the most product. It doesn't matter which administration accommodates this.

Price is down because of world supply.

BO does everything he can do to lower that supply.

Supply is up despite BO efforts.

People will now have more spending money for Christmas.

You can thank the oil companies and the 9 million good folks who they employ Originally Posted by TheDaliLama

Yes, the benevolent oil companies who allow us to give them $3 for a gallon of gasoline. I am so thankful.

You're starting to sound like the admiral Dali. Get a grip.

Ah yes wTF resorts to calling people idiots because he falsely believes he knows better.
It is sort of like the left trying to convince people that the hold up on approving the pipeline from Canada has something to do with the environment. Meanwhile Warren's train wrecks and spills oil all over the place but of course nobody is concerned about the environmental damage that causes.

Fracturing has been going on for almost as long as there have been oil wells. Before hydraulic fracturing it was done by perforation using explosives. The main difference is it is being done in horizontal wells and uses fluid rather than explosives.

Natural gas has been found in underground water supplies for as long as there have been water wells. It does not occur in all wells, just the ones where the gas is close enough to the surface. Nothing new.

We could also enter into a discussion about how taking water from underground creates their own set of environmental issues including but not limited to subsidence. Maybe we should put a halt to water wells untill we study them for, oh lets say as long as they have studied the proposed pipeline. Originally Posted by The2Dogs

I don't even know where to start on your concept of fracturing.
Hydraulic fracturing is not the same as using explosives.
When you use chemicals there is no telling where they go and what they do. The fracturing is also not as localized and there is no way to determine where all the chemicals go or what effects on the water table will be. I am not talking from a spectators position I worked in the field for years. I worked for a "fracking" company and know quite a bit about it and how many unexpected things happen.
Just take a look at how many pump trucks it takes running wide open to make the pressure numbers they do to fracture the rock formation and tell me that the chemicals stay at the well head. LOL!
They run a tanker of Hydrochloric acid down the well or Methanol before they even start the fracking. The jelled water has a time released agent that liquefies it after the frac but it does not neutralize it. Unless the job screens of they go to flush and push the chemicals even farther out so don't get the warm fuzzy that all the chemicals come back up the well.
They also seal the well after a frac before they shut the valve on it.

Both you and LexusLover missed the point. You were trying to blame Obama.


When in fact it is Texas leading the way in wind energy. Originally Posted by WTF

Three things ...#1... fify ... no charge ..

#2 ... the only "point" I saw was the one on your head, and it can't be missed.

#3 ... The Texas "wind energy" initiative is not "leading" any where. It stalled when the goofball from Oklahoma couldn't get the Texas taxpayers (via the Texas legislature) to finance the billions to "rework" the grid system in Texas to handle the flow of energy from the millions of acres of wind farms he was doing to build in West Texas, and then "sell" them for a profit .... without reimbursing the taxpayers or paying the "loan" for upgrading the grid. (If you will read the fine print in your "resource" you will notice mention of "a grid" .. as opposed to "the grid")

How about those West Texas dust storms!!!!

Subdivision contractors do that ... shift the maintenance of common areas (like streets and utilities) to the jurisdiction in which the subdivision is located .... city or county.... "mud district"!!! Even after they have assessed a "maintenance fee" from the buyers... and rat-holed the money into their pockets.

Here's a quote from a reliable source:

Consider what Warren Buffett told his shareholders at Berkshire Hathaway ’s annual meeting in Omaha this year:

“On wind energy, we get a tax credit if we build a lot of wind farms. That’s the only reason to build them. They don’t make sense without the tax credit."
http://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenste...on-wind-power/

Read the article ... the issue is transmission and costs. Right now it is being subsidized by the consumers who aren't even benefiting from it.

Presidents can't effect oil prices, but Veeps can HW went to the King in '86 got them to cut production so oil prices would go up.

Why are they "Good times," Slobbrin?

We give way to much credit to Presidents for economic conditions they can't control and have very little to do with.

Obama wasn't to blame for oil and gas going over $4 per gallon and he doesn't get credit if it drops below $3.

It IS ironic, however, that he opposed some of the very same drilling technologies that are causing the price of oil to drop.

It's not below $3 everywhere. It was 3.35 in wonderful Upstate NY a couple days ago. But then the northeast has usually been on the high end regarding gas prices.

Ah yes wTF resorts to calling people idiots because he falsely believes he knows better.
It is sort of like the left trying to convince people that the hold up on approving the pipeline from Canada has something to do with the environment. Meanwhile Warren's train wrecks and spills oil all over the place but of course nobody is concerned about the environmental damage that causes.
. Originally Posted by The2Dogs

I call idiots , idiots.

Nebraska is holding up the pipeline you idiot. That is a state right issue.

While there has been gas in underground water since the beginning of time, there has not been the other ingredients that are used in fracking. It may very well be that we decide that that is the cost we pay to extract gas and oil but to lie about it damaging the water supply is stuff idiots do.