Speculation

I have to say something. We keep getting told "there needs to be proof". And not just in this case. What, exactly, would be proof?

I have to say something. We keep getting told "there needs to be proof". And not just in this case. What, exactly, would be proof? Originally Posted by sharktrager

I think proof by eccie standards would be the DNA of Trynagetlaid and FWOG.

I think sometimes we shouldn't make such a big deal about it and simply warn new ladies when we see something like this occurring. The Mods hands are obviously tied. Now that this guy's handles have been compromised, he simply will start the process all over until someone notices that he is back in our midst once again. We make it too easy for those who practice malice here. Had nothing been said in the public forum, then at least he might have thought his handle had not been compromised. Back Channels are a great thing indeed. Alert Mods privately so they can watch whatever handle is thought to be being used by those we would prefer not be amongst us. Sometimes these threads simply make it harder for the staff to do their jobs.......ya know?

Ignore the a**hats and go out and see your favorite lady....

I think sometimes we shouldn't make such a big deal about it and simply warn new ladies when we see something like this occurring. The Mods hands are obviously tied. Now that this guy's handles have been compromised, he simply will start the process all over until someone notices that he is back in our midst once again. We make it too easy for those who practice malice here. Had nothing been said in the public forum, then at least he might have thought his handle had not been compromised. Back Channels are a great thing indeed. Alert Mods privately so they can watch whatever handle is thought to be being used by those we would prefer not be amongst us. Sometimes these threads simply make it harder for the staff to do their jobs.......ya know?

Ignore the a**hats and go out and see your favorite lady.... Originally Posted by M A X

I would have to respectfully disagree on 3 key points.

Given the specific nature of the allegations against FWOG before, and even after, his banning, this is a big deal. I consider blackmail of providers, which we know he has done, very serious. I'd say using threats to get bareback and free sessions a pretty big deal. Stealing the raffle proceeds, which he did, is a pretty big deal. And if allegations of threatening to out providers, members and even mods has happened, as alleged, it's a pretty big deal. So, no, we should not just ignore it if there is reason to believe he is in any way, shape or form using this forum.

Secondly, no, the mods hands are not tied. This is not a court of law with the accused entitled to Constitutional protection, it's a web forum. They have the right to kick anyone, at any time, for any reason. Frankly most forums kick people for a hell of a lot less than what FWOG was doing and would definitely be pushing someone who appears to be the same despicable person to prove they are not one in the same out of concern for the safety of the members. They choose not to act, which is also their right. But that is a choice, not something they are forced to do.

Third, without sharing private information, these issues were raised in back channels, with essentially no response. Had they not been made public many ladies would not know to be cautious of this person. This type of thing needs to be discussed openly and clearly and then the ladies can make their own decision as to whether or not they want to take the chance. A lot of ladies are not extremely active and do not have friends looking out for them.

Most members here know I am far from a white knight thinking I'm rescuing the fair maiden. But this situation has the potential to be very dangerous.

I would have to respectfully disagree on 3 key points.

Given the specific nature of the allegations against FWOG before, this situation has the potential to be very dangerous. Originally Posted by sharktrager

This would be my point, if I have done more harm than good I apologize. I'm thinking one at a time.

If I did not believe that, I would request a closure of this thread, I do not feel silent indifference has proven to be a solution.

I appreciate your sentiments and I too wish I could wave a magic wand and make all predators disappear, however, banning this individual, did not actually do a lot of good as, HERE HE IS. The ladies have back channels and various sites where we do our research. I have no doubt that he is listed on all those sites with all his various known handles to date. By alerting predators that we were on to them, it only gives them cause to create yet another new handle that we have yet to discover. How many potential victims could there be because of this? FWOG has had plenty of time to think about the many and various ways he can victimize naive ladies. Lurking and posting on ECCIE is only one of them.

While I understand and also feel frustrated, no, what I really feel is just as outraged as everyone else is to have him in our presence, but I also think I'd like the bad guys/gals right where I could keep an eye on them as much as possible. I'm just sayin'.

The Mods and Owners are just that. Please explain to me how it is they are gonna be able to keep anyone from creating multiple handles on a daily basis if that's what they wanted to do. It's not like they have a direct line of site to everyone's computer to see who is sitting behind the screen. IP addresses can be easily changed or camouflaged.

Short of taking a DNA sample from all members who register, I'm not sure how we are going to keep predators away from the board and keep them from interacting. If you have a viable solution, I really would love to learn about it. My little playground has been violated and I ain't happy. So, with all the bright minds and concerned individuals we have here, maybe one or many of us can come up with a more permanent solution. I'd buy that person a beer or glass of wine, pat them on the back and declare them a God send!

The ladies have back channels and various sites where we do our research. I have no doubt that he is listed on all those sites with all his various known handles to date. By alerting predators that we were on to them, it only gives them cause to create yet another new handle that we have yet to discover. How many potential victims could there be because of this? Originally Posted by M A X

I have a hard time believing you re-read this before hitting post. I sure hope not.

Like many on this site, I am a flawed man. I am a philanderer & I have a wandering eye. Yet I also have a sense of right & wrong, & the male gene that makes me open doors, tip hats, kiss hands, & try to right wrongs when I see them.

My wife has learned never to mention she want something unless she really means it, because if she even casually mentions a want she is going to get it. My favorite providers know this of me as well, and I bet that phrase reminds every provider of a hobbyist she KNOWS she can count on if she needs him.

So please forgive us if we communally need to act when we see one of our precious girls wronged by a fellow monger. God made us this way, & you have to take the good with the bad.

If he finds the ID isn't working, whether outed publicly or privately, he'll create a new one. So to say we should keep what everyone knows on the down low is pointless. '

And, yes, he can get a new IP. Anyone can. But it is very telling that when we had the last influx of trolls those guys were deleted on sight. ID's were assumed to be the same person even after just one or two posts. But now it suddenly requires concrete proof this is the same party.

If you want to make someone leave a board you have 2 choices. The first is for everyone to ignore them. That won't work here. No matter how much faith you have in the ladies back channels, there are more ladies who are not in the know than are in the know. Those back channels keep only some ladies safe. The more visible the message the more people will get it. Without the knowledge we have ladies signing up every single day who are at risk without even knowing it.

The other way is to make it hard for them to accomplish what they aim to do. That is precisely what we are doing, and will keep doing.

I will also add that the idea this is only a risk to the ladies is completely wrong. FWOG went after guys who got in his way as well. I got to get a small taste of his venom and saw first hand that he was not nearly the kindly old hobbyist he was playing. And, I will again add, he has real world information on several of the guys. This is not a small threat to be dealt with quietly behind the scenes.

You know what's so amazing is Trynagetlaid aka FWOG has not mentioned one word nor tried to defend himself. i personally have sent him several pm's months ago informing him that I knew he was FWOG and he never responded back. He's been inactive for a week so far, but guys pay attention to RoundPound there's something about his posts that also bare shocking resemblances to FWOG aka Trynagetlaid.

I hear ya buddy, its sad our molesters are hiding behind our guys

OK guys, nobody loves a chivalrous man more than I do. I have been fortunate enough to have been surrounded by them with my experiences in the hobby, other than in board situations. I am simply trying to state that Banning is not a highly effective method at this point, nor is "calling out" or informing him you know who he is. He probably has several handles here already. He's a predator. He watches, learns and adapts. He laughs at us, because he causes such a ruckus and knows that there is nothing else "in the works" to keep him off his hunting grounds.

When I worked in the corporate world, I often found that when a particular procedure did not accomplish the intended goal, but rather caused a vicious cycle of unwanted end results, it was time to get together and figure out something different. I'm sure this is not a new concept to many here. I have always tried to be proactive when it comes to serious issues, rather than reactive.

I suppose something like asking the staff to implement an auto email when a lady signs up on the site, about the dangers of predators, how to navigate the site and stay safe within the community, might be something proactive. I don't know if it's feasible, but it's a thought on something different to do. Banning doesn't work and writing the offending party doesn't work and IMHO, getting upset with Mods and staff because a predator managed to get on the board, isn't gonna work either. Do ya really think the Mods or owners are in kahootz with the likes of FWOG or any other predator? Come on now. I know you must know that's not reasonable.

I do know that sticking together on this issue might, at some point, help all of us in the long run, rather than bickering about it amongst ourselves or bashing someone for having suggestions other than those that have been tried in the past. I would like to see something good come out of a well meant thread that was started with the best of intentions.

As I stated before, there are some very bright people out and about in our community. I don't imagine I am the only participant on this board who can see the fault with all current methods of handling this problem, no matter how serious or chivalrous they may be. Do ya really think I don't think about these issues? Ummmm....I've become a post ho and have loved being on ECCIE and look forward to the thoughts of some. However, after the first of the year, if something different can not be accomplished, then I have chosen to cease participation and simply post my ads, do my research by reading alerts and utilize the many other tools that have been put into place, as many other reputable ladies have chosen to do. When the chivalrous gents come up with a solution, then maybe some of the other ladies who had even less tolerance than I, will choose to come back and participate here.

So, if you'd like to see more ladies feel comfortable, safe on this board, then I challenge you guys to find a solution. If ya want some sound thoughts and ideas from the ladies, there are many around other than myself, who might also be happy to work with you to make suggestions to the owners and Mods. I can only imagine how overwhelmed they must be with all the a**hats on their board and imagine they would probably welcome anything constructive that might help. I've experienced many changes here and know they are willing to work with our little community, especially when it's a safety issue for the ladies. Just because they didn't or don't act/react the way we all want them to, does not mean your concerns are being ignored or they don't have a clue what is happening. It's right to question them about what goes on here, but if you're not able to give them anything they can use in a constructive and proactive manner, then no, there is really nothing they can do other than implement the old worn out vicious cycle of ban and ban and ban again.

It's your board, you guys decide the better course of action. I'm just a woman, what do I know? LOL

Happy Holidays and best wishes...xoxo

Max, it doesn't have to be complicated. This place should be run like a bar. The more popular a bar is, the faster the managers and bouncers are to purge the troublemakers. They don't ask for proof, they throw the trash out the door at the first sign of trouble. The same can and should happen here, IMHO.

The mods are fantastic. They keep this place running with volunteer effort. Why don't we make their jobs easier by giving them bouncer powers? If multiple premium members (with posted reviews) are pointing out that a guy is a douche, kick his ass to the curb. Right away–no hesitation. If he wants back in, he should apply for 'verified hobbyist' status by providing P411 and provider references. Something like that.

I don't want to put up with the virtual stink of guys like FWOG just so we can keep an eye on them. I want to see them flushed whenever they show up and are recognized.

My two cents. Others may feel different.

L4L

The problem with the bar analogy is that guys don't walk into bars wearing invisibility cloaks. You have to identify them first, and once you do you know that if you simply ban them they will don the cloak and walk back in. Then you're faced with having to find them again.

There is no easy solution. If there was it would be implemented by now. I guess the mods ought to go ahead and get on with the banning. It will make everyone feel good...for about a minute. Then the search for the next handle begins.

You guys are seriously exerting way too much effort on something that isn't going to accomplish anything. (He can re-register within minutes of being banned). Most of what this guy did can be replicated without even having an account on ECCIE. Someone could troll the Welcome Wagon without even logging in and perpetrate scams and blackmail via phone number or email or in person, all day long.

Purely Hypothetical: How do you even know that FWOG didn't register 10 handles one month and create multiple personas...one of them being SweetAterPie and another being WellEndowed1911...feasible since FWOG was created in early '09 and the latter two were created in '10, then he started attacking the FWOG witch hunt with it. How would any of you ever know who was real and who was genuine? You wouldn't.

I'm not claiming any truth to what I just said, its just a hypothetical scenario so don't take offense that I used your handles. All i'm saying is that if this guy had half a brain, he would create a new handle, a new persona, and use it to distance himself from the old one quite loudly so you would NEVER suspect it was him. If you have all this free time to play CSI on an escort board, I guess good luck.

Got it. We should just ignore people doing something that is wrong because it happens anyway.