Will a true domme pay for dinner, and beat up the jerk at the end of the bar? Originally Posted by NitwitboyCut it out. You've been warned.
Thanks.
Elisabeth
- ElisabethWhispers
- 10-20-2010, 08:05 AM
Thanks.
Elisabeth
- Mistress Victoria
- 10-20-2010, 09:09 AM
question for you all, especially you Master PPE: If you, as a man, have sex with a sub, does this undermine your authority or make you less than worthy of being called Master??? Or does this ridiculous theory only apply to female dominants?It is very much a double standard. As pretty much everything is concerning gender and sexuality.
I am a provider-Domme and I was also very active the local community back home (don't really have time for it anymore now that I'm in Dallas, unfortunately). I keep My Domme and my provider personae as separate as I can (despite attempts by certain people who frequent this section to try and point it out whenever possible in my provider reviews LOL) for several reasons.
1. I can be more open with my IRL friends, family and acquaintances about My Domme side, as people tend to think (only slightly, I assure you) more of that profession than that of a provider. It also explains away income I generate even though I don't currently have a job.
2. When someone calls me as Mistress Victoria, I am in a TOTALLY different mindframe than I am when I am contacted under my other persona. When "working," the transition from my "civilian" life to Mistress Victoria is waaaaaay easier than my transition from "civilian" to provider. Being Dominant is just natural to Me. Being in the submissive role of a provider is very trying at times. Even though I have a separate provider moniker, the majority of my provider calls involve domination as well anyway. These sessions tend to be... I won't say confusing... but they flow even less naturally for Me than plain vanilla ones. The more separate I keep the two types of sessions, I've noticed, the better the sessions turn out.
The main reason has to do with protecting my provider persona's image and less with earning the "respect" of the pro-Domme community. My provider persona's image is one of pampering. That (in SOME ways) is the complete antithesis of Domme and fetish work. Many hobbyists have said, repeatedly, in threads in co-ed that they get turned off if they read a provider offers up that kind of scenes too.
This "true Domme" vs "Provider-Domme" b.s. has been going on since the phrase "ProDomme" has been around.
If you talk to many in the kink community, they look down on Pro-Dommes the same way as many in swinger communities look down on providers.
In essence, they are both very similar. You're providing a very intimate experience, which is usually shared with your s.o. or someone of such status, with strangers for a fee. In the eyes of the law, there isn't much difference between being a pro-Domme and being a provider. In NYC, when they were doing clean-ups of the studios and parlors a while back, the Dommes were getting haughty and saying, "well, that's what they get for being hookers," until their dungeons started getting raided too.
It is ALL sex work. Attitudes like that of the Domme from earlier in the thread speaking of "Real Dommes" is detrimental. Attempting to divide the sex worker community is counterproductive, to say the least. Childish. When it all comes down to it, at the end of the day, it is us (ALL sex workers: porn stars, exotic dancers, escorts, hustlers, Doms, fantasy wrestlers) and to a lesser extent, those who use our services, against "them" (the largely puritanical American "civilian" public).
The escorts inexperienced in "The Lifestyle" trying to switch over to Domme is nothing new. That's how many "famous" Dommes actually got started, though they'd never say (lol). I went backwards--- Domme first, provider later on. There's nothing wrong with any of that, IMO.
The problem is when the very inexperienced try to portray themselves as experienced. Some of these scenes can be dangerous if played out by someone with no experience. But just like in "hobbyland," men like to TOFTT and try to be the one who discovers the next diamond in the rough. It happens. It would be more helpful, I think, if the unexperienced would say so. That wouldn't kill their business. I feel that there are many subs (especially the newbies) who would love to explore the possibilities with someone who is learning the same as they are.
It isn't our place to judge provider-Dommes or providers who want to try out BDSM or pro-Dommes who want to try out providing. None of these classifications are going anywhere anytime soon. They're all here to stay whether we like it or not. Might as well accept it and either offer the lady up some advice if you're in a position to give it, or ignore it and keep moving.
- Guest050911
- 10-20-2010, 10:11 AM
Well,
I have been watching this discussion with great interest. I think doming Males and doming Females is a bit different and men get off more to the strictness of the rules and the denial of release then women. There are those who adhere strictly to the code of BDSM does not include release for anyone. I respect that and if that is your desire, good for you. I do not subscribe to that.
I guess I do not have a great amount of patience for those who are not flexible in their sessions or their definitions. I do not follow conventions one whit, other than safety. Safety is paramount. Past that, it is a thing between the Dom / Domme and the Sub.
I do release, not EVERY time, but normally. Usually, several releases for my sub and at least one for me. Deposit on her face, ass, or covered deep inside her pussy or ass. I love my subs to squirt with rough fingering, dildo or vibration. It is my thing, looking deep into their eyes as the cum is a huge high for me, as we both know that I gifted them with that release.
Does it undermine me as a Dom, well, ask my partners. I do not think so. They come back, and we play more, differently, harder. They still respect my place. But I also do not live as a Dom 24/7, so outside of session, I am not trying to dom them and they are not subs to me, but ladies.
Much as the vanilla people like to codify us as only into pain or torture, we often limit ourselves by our own terms.
Be free to create an individual connection with each sub, with or without release. When you do the same type of thing with each session, that is where you start becoming too rigid and no fun for you or the sub.
I hope this rambling makes sense.
PPE
I have been watching this discussion with great interest. I think doming Males and doming Females is a bit different and men get off more to the strictness of the rules and the denial of release then women. There are those who adhere strictly to the code of BDSM does not include release for anyone. I respect that and if that is your desire, good for you. I do not subscribe to that.
I guess I do not have a great amount of patience for those who are not flexible in their sessions or their definitions. I do not follow conventions one whit, other than safety. Safety is paramount. Past that, it is a thing between the Dom / Domme and the Sub.
I do release, not EVERY time, but normally. Usually, several releases for my sub and at least one for me. Deposit on her face, ass, or covered deep inside her pussy or ass. I love my subs to squirt with rough fingering, dildo or vibration. It is my thing, looking deep into their eyes as the cum is a huge high for me, as we both know that I gifted them with that release.
Does it undermine me as a Dom, well, ask my partners. I do not think so. They come back, and we play more, differently, harder. They still respect my place. But I also do not live as a Dom 24/7, so outside of session, I am not trying to dom them and they are not subs to me, but ladies.
Much as the vanilla people like to codify us as only into pain or torture, we often limit ourselves by our own terms.
Be free to create an individual connection with each sub, with or without release. When you do the same type of thing with each session, that is where you start becoming too rigid and no fun for you or the sub.
I hope this rambling makes sense.
PPE
- Hot to Trot Daphne
- 10-20-2010, 11:09 AM
Very much so. .thank You kind Sir.
Mistress Victoria, very eloquent. Love your pics.
Mistress Victoria, very eloquent. Love your pics.
- Krunkman
- 10-20-2010, 11:24 AM
Victoria - Bravo! A very well thought-out and cogent argument you put forth. Thank you for sharing.
PPE - Yes, I agree with your points as well.
For me, personally, I do see a double-standard between male doms and female doms. As well as male subs and female subs. Partially I think the double standard originates from the roles that males and females have in society, in relationships, and in the mating dance. I also see things that are biologically hardwired into us as at least influencing all of our sexual decisions (though, to be honest, getting your cock/clit pierced does not really fall within my definition of biological programming!).
You see so very few professional male doms simply because the market does not exist for more than 1 or 2 of them. It's the same as why there are FAR more women selling services. It comes down to matching men who are willing to pay for companionship to women who are willing to sell it. And this too has a root in our biological/sociological programming. So its only natural to see and expect differences and double standards.
I also think, to a degree, that some of the double standards that female dommes experience are those that they have perpetrated upon themselves (thanks Kel!
. To wit, if a female domme enjoys the session she is having with her male sub, and during the session she gets aroused and wants to take advantage of a willing participant, then somehow she's crossed some invisible domme line. Why does that line exist in the first place? Who made it? And who the hell cares that this "standard" should be followed when you aren't following other standards (like wearing panties and garters in front of a stranger, like being in the sexual trade, like pegging a guy and not calling it sex). I have never understood the logic by which some domina's restrict themselves. Perhaps its more of a female issue rather than a dom issue. Maybe its roots are in the concept of sex, and the withholding of sex as being seen as a weapon/icon of female power? I don't know. I'm not female, so I can't fathom that logic.
Men typically have sex with their submissives. And even if they don't, they often sexually arouse and give/force/gift orgasms upon their female subs. At least it would appear that way. Withholding of sex doesn't do much for men, as they want it too. Just like you don't see male doms having female subs, but they won't have sex with their subs because they are submissive. No, the only sex they have is with other dominant women, because their female submissive isn't good enough, or womanly enough, or whatever enough. A reverse cuckholding of sorts. I've never actually heard of that happening, though I do know of a gay male master who owns a bisexual female slave. It works for the two of them, but they have a master/slave relationship, and she has at least one female partner.
Anywhoo, I just think that women seem to perpetuate these standards on themselves (thanks again Kel!) to their own detriment. A male master isn't going to look any differently at a female mistress if she has sex with her subs... after all he's doing the same thing with his! But other female mistresses may look down on the aforementioned mistress who is banging her slaves because "that's just not how a mistress is supposed to be!!!". It's BS in my book, but no matter what I think, it is a reality that we all face.
The question is, how do we change it so that people are more free to do that which they want to do without piling on additional guilt/annoyance?
PPE - Yes, I agree with your points as well.
For me, personally, I do see a double-standard between male doms and female doms. As well as male subs and female subs. Partially I think the double standard originates from the roles that males and females have in society, in relationships, and in the mating dance. I also see things that are biologically hardwired into us as at least influencing all of our sexual decisions (though, to be honest, getting your cock/clit pierced does not really fall within my definition of biological programming!).
You see so very few professional male doms simply because the market does not exist for more than 1 or 2 of them. It's the same as why there are FAR more women selling services. It comes down to matching men who are willing to pay for companionship to women who are willing to sell it. And this too has a root in our biological/sociological programming. So its only natural to see and expect differences and double standards.
I also think, to a degree, that some of the double standards that female dommes experience are those that they have perpetrated upon themselves (thanks Kel!
. To wit, if a female domme enjoys the session she is having with her male sub, and during the session she gets aroused and wants to take advantage of a willing participant, then somehow she's crossed some invisible domme line. Why does that line exist in the first place? Who made it? And who the hell cares that this "standard" should be followed when you aren't following other standards (like wearing panties and garters in front of a stranger, like being in the sexual trade, like pegging a guy and not calling it sex). I have never understood the logic by which some domina's restrict themselves. Perhaps its more of a female issue rather than a dom issue. Maybe its roots are in the concept of sex, and the withholding of sex as being seen as a weapon/icon of female power? I don't know. I'm not female, so I can't fathom that logic.Men typically have sex with their submissives. And even if they don't, they often sexually arouse and give/force/gift orgasms upon their female subs. At least it would appear that way. Withholding of sex doesn't do much for men, as they want it too. Just like you don't see male doms having female subs, but they won't have sex with their subs because they are submissive. No, the only sex they have is with other dominant women, because their female submissive isn't good enough, or womanly enough, or whatever enough. A reverse cuckholding of sorts. I've never actually heard of that happening, though I do know of a gay male master who owns a bisexual female slave. It works for the two of them, but they have a master/slave relationship, and she has at least one female partner.
Anywhoo, I just think that women seem to perpetuate these standards on themselves (thanks again Kel!) to their own detriment. A male master isn't going to look any differently at a female mistress if she has sex with her subs... after all he's doing the same thing with his! But other female mistresses may look down on the aforementioned mistress who is banging her slaves because "that's just not how a mistress is supposed to be!!!". It's BS in my book, but no matter what I think, it is a reality that we all face.
The question is, how do we change it so that people are more free to do that which they want to do without piling on additional guilt/annoyance?
- *GoddessDallas*
- 10-26-2010, 09:54 AM
Kel,You are totally INCORRECT, and totally off your rocker.
I stand humbly corrected. And a big LOL about your compromise statement. It will vary from individual to individual. Until and unless you have an international standards body that certifies you as a "true" domme, any person can assume the title. The fact that you accept money in a pay for play relationship has nothing to do with "true".
Now, if you want to use some historically established guidelines, then I assume you are aware of the Old Guard's standards where everyone in the community started out as slave, and only when you made the journey from slave to Master did the community agree to recognize you as such (though in this case we should say Mistress). There are very few today who are willing to undergo such a test to earn the right to the title and responsibilities.
I have never claimed any authority outside of myself. But as I am not an authority, neither are you. In my dealings with the lifestyle and people in the lifestlye over the years I have picked up a bit of knowledge and education. I have attended classes, facilitated events and done much, much more. I speak from knowledge, experience as well as opinion.
So how did you obtain your Domme title? Did you earn it somehow, or did you annoint yourself as such? One is different than the other. Originally Posted by Krunkman
ANYONE can Google this topic and see how totally WRONG you are.
I am NOT going to humor you by even dealing with this.
I think the word MORON comes to mind.
- Krunkman
- 10-26-2010, 10:05 AM
Lol... I stand by my word Kel. I'm glad to see that you have brought the ultimate arbiter of the D/S world into the discussion... Google!
We all know that EVERYTHING on the Internet is true, right?
Coming from you, an insult is pretty much an affirmation that I'm correct. Thanks!
We all know that EVERYTHING on the Internet is true, right?
Coming from you, an insult is pretty much an affirmation that I'm correct. Thanks!
- ElisabethWhispers
- 10-26-2010, 11:12 AM
You are totally INCORRECT, and totally off your rocker.Although I completely appreciate opposing views on issues, name calling will not be tolerated.
ANYONE can Google this topic and see how totally WRONG you are.
I am NOT going to humor you by even dealing with this.
I think the word MORON comes to mind. Originally Posted by DommeKeliDallas
Period.
You can state your opinion without going in that direction, Keli.
Elisabeth
- Guest050613-02
- 10-27-2010, 09:59 AM
My observation:
Male topped D/s scenes are often about forced orgasms. Females topped D/s is generally more about orgasm denial. Yet, no matter the genders involved this truism reigns: Submissives tend to spend a lot of time with genitals in their mouths.
When I play with my regular pet, there is always mutual release.
When I scene with someone I don't know (e.g., at a dark dungeon party at Sanctuary) it is rarely about release. I see it as more of a chance to experiment with my flogging technique, try out a new knot, or see exactly how many clothspins I currently have in my toy bag.
Ultimately, a good scene is defined as one where after the session is over both parties would like to so the same session together again.
Male topped D/s scenes are often about forced orgasms. Females topped D/s is generally more about orgasm denial. Yet, no matter the genders involved this truism reigns: Submissives tend to spend a lot of time with genitals in their mouths.
When I play with my regular pet, there is always mutual release.
When I scene with someone I don't know (e.g., at a dark dungeon party at Sanctuary) it is rarely about release. I see it as more of a chance to experiment with my flogging technique, try out a new knot, or see exactly how many clothspins I currently have in my toy bag.
Ultimately, a good scene is defined as one where after the session is over both parties would like to so the same session together again.
- Krunkman
- 10-27-2010, 01:30 PM
- Guest050613-02
- 10-27-2010, 03:11 PM
- Krunkman
- 10-27-2010, 03:52 PM
I met Jay a few years back when he came to Dallas for some classes hosted by the Sanctuary. A very interesting man, full of great ideas and lots of lifestyle experience.