Provider Advice Requested: Where to put the Roses

"Red flag"? You're either used to dealing with inexperienced girls or ones who haven't been bitten enough times yet. There is NO FUCKING WAY I would ever provide services to a man who refused to pay me up front; "element of trust" my arse! Any man who won't pay up front has been with too many shady characters, and neither I nor many other ladies will consent to see such a person. I get the money up front, I count it up front right in front of him (and if there's too much I ask it it was intentional), and then it goes into my purse before we do anything, and in 11 years not one person who wasn't up to no good has complained about it. Originally Posted by AngelOK

OR... from the moment I make contact with a provider, I conduct myself in a professional gentleman like manner, instilling a level of confidence. I can honestly say I have never cheated a provider nor disrespected one in person... EVER! I'm NOT a cheat or a flake. I'm not stupid either. I suppose providers are the only ones that get ripped off? Trust me, I met up with the grab the cash and dash providers. I have no intention of ever being a victim again. But it goes without saying that an extensive reference list might make a big difference! Further more, I don't do the here is your money thing or what’s on the menu thing? I know the rate before the meeting takes place. I always ask what’s NOT on the menu. I will NEVER allow myself to get an invitation to see the men in the black robes. That’s the quickest way for that to happen. There are seldom any surprises. I ALWAYS bring a personalized gift to EVERY new provider I meet. Once I have seen a provider I ALWAYS pay up front! So I'm not certain what caliber of hobbyist you’re frequenting but, the last thing I would ever do is tell you how to conduct your business. I expect the same in return.

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;1602315]I'm with AngelOk. I would ask SL to leave too LOL. Originally Posted by Naomi4u[/SIZE

You say that now!?

OR... from the moment I make contact with a provider, I conduct myself in a professional gentleman like manner, instilling a level of confidence. I can honestly say I have never cheated a provider nor disrespected one in person... EVER! I'm NOT a cheat or a flake. I'm not stupid either. I suppose providers are the only ones that get ripped off? Trust me, I met up with the grab the cash and dash providers. I have no intention of ever being a victim again. But it goes without saying that an extensive reference list might make a big difference! Further more, I don't do the here is your money thing or what’s on the menu thing? I know the rate before the meeting takes place. I always ask what’s NOT on the menu. I will NEVER allow myself to get an invitation to see the men in the black robes. That’s the quickest way for that to happen. There are seldom any surprises. I ALWAYS bring a personalized gift to EVERY new provider I meet. Once I have seen a provider I ALWAYS pay up front! So I'm not certain what caliber of hobbyist you’re frequenting but, the last thing I would ever do is tell you how to conduct your business. I expect the same in return.

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=3] Originally Posted by Still Looking

Good luck with that honey.

As long as you pay Upfront you will have no problem with most providers.

If you choose to do things your way, I'm pretty sure there are some ladies that will not see you.

xoxo,
Naomi

BIG RED FLAG! If, the provider asks for the money / donation right up front.... I'd walk or show it to them and place it on YOUR night stand, out of reach. There needs to be an element of trust. If she doesn’t trust you, start walking. Always bring a flower or two or a small gift or card. Hand that to them up front and in most cases the money issues goes away! Now if on the phone or via PM or email the provider lets you know up front her requirements then you follow and respect her request or NOT see her!

Originally Posted by Still Looking

Still Looking, the reason why you might be able to get away with this more so than most guys is that you have a presence on here and a reputation to protect. A lot of guys here are lurkers and don't post any reviews and don't have a "reputation" to protect that would keep them from saying they'll pay at the end and then rip the provider off.

There is an element of trust, but there's also an element of caution-- as there should be on both sides.

Gentlemen, if you have a lot of reviews and a board presence and the provider has no reviews or hasn't been around that long so you don't know how trustworthy she is, you could make the request.

However, if you're a lurker, I think you're going to miss out on a lot of providers because you're essentially some stranger.

Due to the intimacy involved and the horror stories (we could argue til we're blue in the face who rips off the other side more, or is more of a hassle-- problem clients or problem providers) I wouldn't accept the envelope anytime but during the first few minutes unless it was from someone that I'd had repeat dealings with, or who had quite a hobby reputation that they'd be as careful to protect as I am about mine, and even then I might be a little bit leery.

Also, depending on how the gentleman brought up the request of paying after the date, I might not see him at all due to some of the highhandedness I'm seeing a bit in this thread.

Still Looking, I get where you're coming from-- but I'm sure now you do your research a lot more to make sure the woman has reviews and isn't a rip-off bitch (ROB.) I would honestly feel a little bit offended if after corresponding with me and checking my reviews, that you would still try to see me but dictate where my comfort level should be.

Luckily, you don't try to pull this bullshit in person and you warn the women in advance so they have the option to research you even more and see if they're comfortable doing what your suggesting.

However, it would not work for the vast majority of first-time meetings.

OR... from the moment I make contact with a provider, I conduct myself in a professional gentleman like manner, instilling a level of confidence. Originally Posted by Still Looking

Please don't be disingenuous; the "con" in "con man" is short for "confidence". Any scammer who CAN'T make his mark feel "confidence" won't succeed at his con.

I'm not calling you a con man; what I'm saying is that guys who pull such tricks as paper slips in the envelope are good at instilling a false sense of confidence.

Also, there's an easy way to prevent "cash and dash"; use only reputable, well-reviewed girls. Until the day there are "customer reviews", we haven't that option unless we ONLY see men with multiple very solid provider references.

Good luck with that honey.

Its not about luck, its about reality!

As long as you pay Upfront you will have no problem with most providers.

Once AGAIN, I don't EVER pay up front!

If you choose to do things your way, I'm pretty sure there are some ladies that will not see you.

I'm sure you’re EXACTLY right! Providers have their rules, hobbyist have theirs!
xoxo,
Naomi Originally Posted by Naomi4u

I respect your optinions and preferences!

Still Looking, the reason why you might be able to get away with this more so than most guys is that you have a presence on here and a reputation to protect. A lot of guys here are lurkers and don't post any reviews and don't have a "reputation" to protect that would keep them from saying they'll pay at the end and then rip the provider off.

There is an element of trust, but there's also an element of caution-- as there should be on both sides.

Gentlemen, if you have a lot of reviews and a board presence and the provider has no reviews or hasn't been around that long so you don't know how trustworthy she is, you could make the request.

However, if you're a lurker, I think you're going to miss out on a lot of providers because you're essentially some stranger.

I'm NOT a lurker!

Due to the intimacy involved and the horror stories (we could argue til we're blue in the face who rips off the other side more, or is more of a hassle-- problem clients or problem providers) I wouldn't accept the envelope anytime but during the first few minutes unless it was from someone that I'd had repeat dealings with, or who had quite a hobby reputation that they'd be as careful to protect as I am about mine, and even then I might be a little bit leery.

Also, depending on how the gentleman brought up the request of paying after the date, I might not see him at all due to some of the highhandedness I'm seeing a bit in this thread.

Still Looking, I get where you're coming from-- but I'm sure now you do your research a lot more to make sure the woman has reviews and isn't a rip-off bitch (ROB.) I would honestly feel a little bit offended if after corresponding with me and checking my reviews, that you would still try to see me but dictate where my comfort level should be.


I am NOT the one making the decision on seeing me! You are. And if I chose to see you, you would know pretty much everything there is to know about me. You would most certainly have a very comfortable feeling about me. While I'm certain you will be different than any other provider I have ever seen, I also will be different than any other hobbyist you have ever seen. I don't pay up front because PROVIDERS don't require me to pay but front. That’s the norm. I can only speak for my experiences. You would have to experience a meeting with me to totally understand. Lets not forget Sugar Beth, if I were to meet with YOU, you have a well reviewed reputation. I would not have an issue paying you up front if that was your request as I feel as I already know you like other ladies with similar reputations here on ECCIE! Hell I would pay you in nickels if that’s what you wanted. LOL

Luckily, you don't try to pull this bullshit in person and you warn the women in advance so they have the option to research you even more and see if they're comfortable doing what your suggesting.

Once again, I'm NOT ultimately making the rules. Providers make the rules. I don't play games nor do I "Pull any Bullshit!" A provider would have to be dumber than a sack of hammers to check several references, talk to me on the phone, then meet with me and chat for 5-10 minutes and demand the money up front. It just NEVER happens! I’m NOT saying I’m special, I’m just telling you the way it is!

However, it would not work for the vast majority of first-time meetings. Originally Posted by SugarBeth

I agree!

Please don't be disingenuous; the "con" in "con man" is short for "confidence". Any scammer who CAN'T make his mark feel "confidence" won't succeed at his con.

I'm not calling you a con man; what I'm saying is that guys who pull such tricks as paper slips in the envelope are good at instilling a false sense of confidence.

Also, there's an easy way to prevent "cash and dash"; use only reputable, well-reviewed girls. Until the day there are "customer reviews", we haven't that option unless we ONLY see men with multiple very solid provider references. Originally Posted by AngelOK

I'm not sure what I have stated that you feel I am disingenuous about. But it really doesn't matter, you were able to use that word and I think that was the objective. I'm not a conman or scammer. And I'm pretty sure I will never be seeing you! So I'd say this is pretty much a waste of time! I respect your opinions and input! And I wish you a happy and safe hobby career.

This is an insomniac's take on this thread.

A newbie asks a question about a basic procedure and the board quickly provides the answer. But there is an outlier who says everyone is doing it back assward and his unique method works for him. Other posters are unable to resist the bait and the thread devolves into a senseless back and forth about the merits and logic of the outlier's position.

And we wonder why people leave the board when simple questions cause such mini-dramas?

Turn out the lights.

SL, chill out. I can hear you hyperventilating all the way over here.

If you choose to do things your way, I'm pretty sure there are some ladies that will not see you. Originally Posted by Naomi4u

This statement is probably true, and those are probably ladies you would not see in the first place. She is not considering that by the time you meet the lady you choose to meet, there is no question. She is speaking of the hard rule for the faceless dude with no standing.

Still Looking, the reason why you might be able to get away with this more so than most guys is that you have a presence on here and a reputation to protect. A lot of guys here are lurkers and don't post any reviews and don't have a "reputation" to protect that would keep them from saying they'll pay at the end and then rip the provider off.

There is an element of trust, but there's also an element of caution-- as there should be on both sides.

Gentlemen, if you have a lot of reviews and a board presence and the provider has no reviews or hasn't been around that long so you don't know how trustworthy she is, you could make the request.

However, if you're a lurker, I think you're going to miss out on a lot of providers because you're essentially some stranger. Originally Posted by SugarBeth

Take a deep breath. She is not saying you are a lurker. Read the first paragraph again... she recognizes you have 49 reviews in five months (something that seems lost on the other opinionaters). She is saying that IF... again IF... someone is a lurker (which is what the collective term "you're" means in this case)...

But there is an outlier who says everyone is doing it back assward and his unique method works for him. Other posters are unable to resist the bait ... Originally Posted by awl4knot

+1

You know, I said earlier that I set my envelope down when I come in with my keys and soft drink. That is it, plain and simple. And it is not a discussion point. When I leave, I pick up my keys and soft drink.

It has never been an issue. My reputation is solid and they already know that before we ever meet.

Nope I don't "get" where Still Looking is coming from, If the lady is a highly reviewed lady why isn't he able to pay upfront? If he has done his research, it should be no problem. Now I have read his post and come to the conclusion that he's pretty loaded so I'm shocked that he has this attitude. It's one thing when you are dealing with a ripoff/known ripoff but a well reviewed lady? I have to disagree with another poster - even newbies do their research and pay upfront. I love newbies because they haven't been corrupted by hobbyists and I can tell them to stay the hell away from message boards . Just saying. SL, If it's working out for you then it doesn't matter what anyone else here says. I know a lot of ladies that will pretty much stare at you until you pay up or leave because you refuse to set the donation down.

Nope I don't "get" where Still Looking is coming from, If the lady is a highly reviewed lady why isn't he able to pay upfront? If he has done his research, it should be no problem. Now I have read his post and come to the conclusion that he's pretty loaded so I'm shocked that he has this attitude. It's one thing when you are dealing with a ripoff/known ripoff but a well reviewed lady? I have to disagree with another poster - even newbies do their research and pay upfront. I love newbies because they haven't been corrupted by hobbyists and I can tell them to stay the hell away from message boards . Just saying. SL, If it's working out for you then it doesn't matter what anyone else here says. I know a lot of ladies that will pretty much stare at you until you pay up or leave because you refuse to set the donation down. Originally Posted by Naomi4u

Your right you don't get it! Obviously! It is assumptive on my part that this thread was discussing where to put the "ROSES" and perhaps when. We’re not talking about hobbyist provider relationships that already exist. We’re talking about first time meetings. I would have no problem paying you and SugarBeth up front. As a matter of fact I would prefer it. In the same token, would you demand it? Would you stare at me until I paid you? In the last 30 days I have had the opportunity to meet no less than 14 NEW providers (Not all reviewed!) NOT ONE EVER ASKED FOR THE MONEY! The moment that BCD activities are concluded I place LARGE BILLS on the dresser or night stand. I have NEVER used an envelope nor ever had a provider request I use one. The objective is to place the bills in a manner they can be assessed at a glance. I have NEVER handed money to a lady. I just don't understand why this is an argument X 3?

Newbie's? Hell they have a had enough time getting an appointment let alone worry about the rip offs that exist, which I won't list. They are the ones that send the money Western Union. Give me a fucking break! But once they fall victim to those rip offs they to will practice caution and do their home work. If they don’t well I guess there is one born every minute.

I'm not sure what I have stated that you feel I am disingenuous about. But it really doesn't matter, you were able to use that word and I think that was the objective. Originally Posted by Still Looking

What a ridiculous thing to say! I used the word because it was the right one for the job. You're pretending that you don't understand that "a sense of confidence" isn't enough reason for a woman to trust a stranger with her sexual favors on the mere promise of some gain, though you're clearly intelligent enough to know better.

I'm not a conman or scammer. Originally Posted by Still Looking

I never said you were; I said it was unrealistic for you to expect that sensible escorts would trust your word any more than they trust "we don't need protection, baby, I'm clean" or "I'll call you in the morning."

I'd say this is pretty much a waste of time! Originally Posted by Still Looking

It's a waste of time for you, perhaps, but not for the young and inexperienced girls who might read this and need to understand that they should NOT trust a customer to pay afterward, no matter HOW nice and trustworthy he seems.

And I wish you a happy and safe hobby career. Originally Posted by Still Looking

But that's just it; it's a hobby for YOU, but a career for us. It's not such a big deal if someone loses money on something he's doing for fun, but it IS a big deal if a woman is cheated of the fruits of her labor. Again, I'm not saying you have ever or would ever do such a thing; what I'm saying is that when naive girls let men get away with what you do, they are setting themselves up to be cheated by others who unlike you are only out to obtain sex by a false promise, thus turning a business transaction into a kind of rape. And I would be morally remiss if I did not say something to protect any of my little sisters who might read this thread from such a horrible experience, which even many good men do not seem to "get" the seriousness of.

providers (Not all reviewed!) NOT ONE EVER ASKED FOR THE MONEY! Originally Posted by Still Looking

This is because they really wanted to get fucked and forgot about the money at that point. They are in this business because they do it for their health and not the money because god knows they cannot get free dick in their personal lives - I rest my case. Say no more.

Newbie's? Hell they have a had enough time getting an appointment let alone worry about the rip offs that exist, which I won't list. They are the ones that send the money Western Union. Give me a fucking break! But once they fall victim to those rip offs they to will practice caution and do their home work. If they don’t well I guess there is one born every minute.

Ehh... I always steer my boys the right way so I ain't worried about it.

This is because they really wanted to get fucked and forgot about the money at that point. They are in this business because they do it for their health and not the money because god knows they cannot get free dick in their personal lives - I rest my case. Say no more.

I try to help out where ever I can. I'm just that kind of guy! I appreciate your understanding... finally! Now don't go away mad, last thing I want to do is piss Burks girlfriend off! LOL

Ehh... I always steer my boys the right way so I ain't worried about it. Originally Posted by Naomi4u

No doubt in my mind! But you’re not they only provider out there. And they don't all share your ethics unfortunately.

Now why would I be mad because you're not willing to pay ladies up front dear? Do tell. I haven't fucked you / you didn't rip ME off or refuse to pay me so it would be a bit silly to be mad because of your board post. Take care darling. I still heart ya.

What a ridiculous thing to say! I used the word because it was the right one for the job. You're pretending that you don't understand that "a sense of confidence" isn't enough reason for a woman to trust a stranger with her sexual favors on the mere promise of some gain, though you're clearly intelligent enough to know better.

You think I'm inteligent? You don't even know me! But thank you.

I never said you were; I said it was unrealistic for you to expect that sensible escorts would trust your word any more than they trust "we don't need protection, baby, I'm clean" or "I'll call you in the morning."

Authentic provider gibberish!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ke5Mr5eCF2U

It's a waste of time for you, perhaps, but not for the young and inexperienced girls who might read this and need to understand that they should NOT trust a customer to pay afterward, no matter HOW nice and trustworthy he seems.

I can only speak for my self. And I will only be accountable for my actions. But if its advise you want on behalf of young providers, well I would say using common sense goes a long ways. I recommend they screen and do they're research.

But that's just it; it's a hobby for YOU, but a career for us. It's not such a big deal if someone loses money on something he's doing for fun, but it IS a big deal if a woman is cheated of the fruits of her labor. Again, I'm not saying you have ever or would ever do such a thing; what I'm saying is that when naive girls let men get away with what you do, they are setting themselves up to be cheated by others who unlike you are only out to obtain sex by a false promise, thus turning a business transaction into a kind of rape. And I would be morally remiss if I did not say something to protect any of my little sisters who might read this thread from such a horrible experience, which even many good men do not seem to "get" the seriousness of. Originally Posted by AngelOK

I respect your convictions. But your issues are not with me. No honest considerate gentleman likes being grouped with assholes that screw over ladies!

Now why would I be mad because you're not willing to pay ladies up front dear? Do tell. I haven't fucked you / you didn't rip ME off or refuse to pay me so it would be a bit silly to be mad because of your board post. Take care darling. I still heart ya. Originally Posted by Naomi4u

OCTOBER I get a woody just thinking about it! Bet you'll be surprised!