Enhanced Screening (no, not the hobby...TSA)

Well a much better start would be a registered traveler program that didn't even go through scanners except on a random basis. If all frequent fliers signed up, that would kill probably 80% of the lines. I could also accept going back to the less moronic pre-911 procedures.!!!! Originally Posted by pjorourke

Variations of this have been tried, admittedly as for profit ventures, and I can't speak to how well managed or capitalized they were, but never really caught on...one example

http://www.coolest-gadgets.com/20070...es-with-clear/

In theory these sound great & granted that they aren't available everywhere has hurt them but the learning (at least in my view) is unless something is mandatory getting broad adoption is near impossible.

And just imagine the outcry if someone suggested making this mandatory.

But don't you think the terrorist *might* figure out how to get a FF number? I'm not saying our current vetting works but the "Secured Traveler" has it's problems. El Al has folks who do the screening and profiling needed to keep their aircraft safe(r). Originally Posted by SR Only

I can't say it wouldn't be without its problems, but the program I referenced looks pretty thorough including a retinal scan etc.

Israel has around 90-100 flights leaving each day from its one major airport; a definite advantage in screening the way they do. They also have the advantage of being able to hire individuals who have served time in the army, some of them in the security and anti-terrorist forces. Originally Posted by discreetgent

The smaller scale certainly makes the better screening more practical

I can only echo what so many here have already stated. WE NEED PROFILING, and to Hell with anyone who's afraid profiling will offend some towel-head from the Middle East.

!! Originally Posted by cucharabill

To hell with anyone that will not go thur a x-ray machine.

These same folks that are crying about going thur an x-ray machine are the exact ones that had no problem sending off our boys to war to die for them so they could 'feel' safe.

On a lighter note.....

. And now you're going to get "down there" with their "stink". Think about that the next time you see some pat-down video on TV.

Ewwwww.......GROSS!! Originally Posted by cucharabill

That was a lighter note

Israel has around 90-100 flights leaving each day from its one major airport; a definite advantage in screening the way they do. They also have the advantage of being able to hire individuals who have served time in the army, some of them in the security and anti-terrorist forces. Originally Posted by discreetgent

I vote we bring our troops home and secure OUR airports. Replace TSA with troops. Two problems solved.

To hell with anyone that will not go thur a x-ray machine.

These same folks that are crying about going thur an x-ray machine are the exact ones that had no problem sending off our boys to war to die for them so they could 'feel' safe.
Originally Posted by WTF

a lot of the time when someone makes a statement about X..you come back and say.."yeah and yall beleive in Y" or some such dubious attack without merit.

the tea party believes in total medicare...the ppl who dont like their liberty intruded upon love kids dying in iraq...if the topic is federal income tax,you want to talk about states charging for wedding licenses..

But don't you think the terrorist *might* figure out how to get a FF number? I'm not saying our current vetting works but the "Secured Traveler" has it's problems. El Al has folks who do the screening and profiling needed to keep their aircraft safe(r). Originally Posted by SR Only

Secured Traveler is much more than a FF#. It incorporates a background check and biometric ID. Any system has potential openings. But a ST would have far less than this stupid (and expensive) charade.

Variations of this have been tried, admittedly as for profit ventures, and I can't speak to how well managed or capitalized they were, but never really caught on...one example

http://www.coolest-gadgets.com/20070...es-with-clear/

In theory these sound great & granted that they aren't available everywhere has hurt them but the learning (at least in my view) is unless something is mandatory getting broad adoption is near impossible.

And just imagine the outcry if someone suggested making this mandatory.

I can't say it wouldn't be without its problems, but the program I referenced looks pretty thorough including a retinal scan etc.

The smaller scale certainly makes the better screening more practical Originally Posted by atlcomedy

I was a member of Clear when it started (it went under, but has been sold and is now coming back to life.) The reason it failed had as much to do with intransigent bureaucrats at TSA protecting their turf as it did with a lack of demand. (An example -- TSA decreed that besides the biometric id, people had to provide a picture id as well -- like some moron scanning a 10 year old drivers license picture is more accurate than a fingerprint.)

The problem with the program is that they didnt make it attractive enough. It just got you in a separate line that moved quicker. What they should do is set it up so that these people don't do the whole take your coat & shoes off xray/scan thing except on a random basis. Make it attractive enough and most regular fliers would pay the money and get out of line. Leave the lines for the once a decade fliers and the questionable types that can't get cleared for a card.

Word!

I have a NEXUS card (US-Canada) since I get to Canada fairly often. Kiosks at the airport that take a retinal scan; going into Canada no need to show an ID or passport even; coming back to US they just want to see the Nexus card. Bypass ALL the 747s that arrive at the same time. Can get from plane to transportation in about 10 minutes. Leaving Canada it takes a bit longer to get to the plane because of the baggage checks, and even that they could in theory get rid of. At one point (Dec 2009-Feb 2010) there was a secondary screening in Canada on US bound flights; NEXUS meant I avoided those secondary screenings altogether. So it can work.

I was a member of Clear when it started (it went under, but has been sold and is now coming back to life.) The reason it failed had as much to do with intransigent bureaucrats at TSA protecting their turf as it did with a lack of demand. (An example -- TSA decreed that besides the biometric id, people had to provide a picture id as well -- like some moron scanning a 10 year old drivers license picture is more accurate than a fingerprint.)

The problem with the program is that they didnt make it attractive enough. It just got you in a separate line that moved quicker. What they should do is set it up so that these people don't do the whole take your coat & shoes off xray/scan thing except on a random basis. Make it attractive enough and most regular fliers would pay the money and get out of line. Leave the lines for the once a decade fliers and the questionable types that can't get cleared for a card. Originally Posted by pjorourke

lol...I've never understood why a drivers license as a an ID is so widely accepted for anything important

I agree a more attractive program would fare better. I can't remember if it was Clear or something else that launched in ATL a couple of years ago. They spent pretty heavy on marketing. I looked into it and passed because it really just gave you the same preferred line benefit an elite traveler gets through the airline.

I'm just speculating (which is all one really can do here) but I still say even a good program wouldn't attract a critical mass that would clean up the congestion in the airports. People are lazy and/or cheap and/or paranoid about privacy issues. That said it would be an improvement for the people that join & at least provides an option.

I just received this on a listserv:

Subject: TSA: Travelers Who Refuse Scanning Can’t Leave, Will Be Fined

Faced with the prospect of large numbers of people refusing the invasive “screening” measures they’ve implemented this holiday season, the TSA is hoping to fight back with threats of fine and arrest.

“Once a person submits to the screening process, they can not just decide to leave” warned Sari Koshetz, a TSA spokesperson. TSA officials say that anyone refusing both the “full body scanners” and the “enhanced pat down” procedures will be taken into custody.

Once there the detainees will not only be barred from flying, but will be held indefinitely as suspected terrorists, face fines of up to $11,000 and may also be turned over to local police. One sheriff’s office said they were already preparing to handle a large number of detainees and plan to treat them as terror suspects...


<http://news.antiwar.com/2010/11/19/tsa-travelers-who-refuse-scanning-cant-leave-will-be-fined/>

Typical bureaucratic bullying that wouldn't withstand its first brush with a court.

If you think the TSA is a dysfunctional mess now, just wait and see what happens when it unionizes!

The Federal Labor Relations Authority just ruled that TSA employees should be able to join a union with full collective bargaining rights.

Imagine what might happen if every little tiny change in procedures has to meet with the approval of union bosses. This story is not likely to have a happy ending.

True, PJ. But it still would mean that people would be under arrest for some amount of time, a hell of an inconvenience. Unless they could then sue the TSA for unlawful arrest I doubt many people would be willing to go through this.

I just received this on a listserv:

Subject: TSA: Travelers Who Refuse Scanning Can’t Leave, Will Be Fined

Faced with the prospect of large numbers of people refusing the invasive “screening” measures they’ve implemented this holiday season, the TSA is hoping to fight back with threats of fine and arrest.

“Once a person submits to the screening process, they can not just decide to leave” warned Sari Koshetz, a TSA spokesperson. TSA officials say that anyone refusing both the “full body scanners” and the “enhanced pat down” procedures will be taken into custody.

Once there the detainees will not only be barred from flying, but will be held indefinitely as suspected terrorists, face fines of up to $11,000 and may also be turned over to local police. One sheriff’s office said they were already preparing to handle a large number of detainees and plan to treat them as terror suspects...


<http://news.antiwar.com/2010/11/19/tsa-travelers-who-refuse-scanning-cant-leave-will-be-fined/> Originally Posted by SR Only

Typical bureaucratic bullying that wouldn't withstand its first brush with a court. Originally Posted by pjorourke

I just received this on a listserv:

Subject: TSA: Travelers Who Refuse Scanning Can’t Leave, Will Be Fined

Faced with the prospect of large numbers of people refusing the invasive “screening” measures they’ve implemented this holiday season, the TSA is hoping to fight back with threats of fine and arrest.

“Once a person submits to the screening process, they can not just decide to leave” warned Sari Koshetz, a TSA spokesperson. TSA officials say that anyone refusing both the “full body scanners” and the “enhanced pat down” procedures will be taken into custody.

Once there the detainees will not only be barred from flying, but will be held indefinitely as suspected terrorists, face fines of up to $11,000 and may also be turned over to local police. One sheriff’s office said they were already preparing to handle a large number of detainees and plan to treat them as terror suspects...


<http://news.antiwar.com/2010/11/19/tsa-travelers-who-refuse-scanning-cant-leave-will-be-fined/> Originally Posted by SR Only

Typical bureaucratic bullying that wouldn't withstand its first brush with a court. Originally Posted by pjorourke

I don't have the cite, but as I understand it, TSA based this statement on a 9th Circuit opinion which, in dicta, stated that allowing someone to back out of the screening process would allow terrorists unlimited chances to test the screening process for flaws. It went on to state that once started, the screening must be completed.

TSA was, for a time, considering going after Tyner (the "touch my junk" guy) for the $11,000 fine. I don't think they've made a final decision, but appears they've abandoned that idea as a misplaced nightmare.

a) the 9th Circuit has always been wacky. (Its California and the other left coast nutz.)

b) It was a 1973 decision that was never affirmed by the Supremes. http://boardingarea.com/blogs/flying...rth-amendment/

See below

a) the 9th Circuit has always been wacky. (Its California and the other left coast nutz.) I think if the current Circuit took up this issue, it might reverse the '73 court based on it's language:

U.S. vs Davis goes onto to state “[an administrative search is allowed if] no more intrusive or intensive than necessary, in light of current technology, to detect weapons or explosives, confined in good faith to that purpose, and passengers may avoid the search by electing not to fly.”

I think the current Circuit would find the TSA procedures to be both intrusive and intensive. I assume you mostly complain of its liberalism, but in this case the liberalism should overturn the previous Circuit opinion.

b) It was a 1973 decision that was never affirmed by the Supremes. http://boardingarea.com/blogs/flying...rth-amendment/ -- I knew I could count on you to do the research. Thanks. Originally Posted by pjorourke

In 1973, the 9th was not Liberal.