What is a Liberal? What is a Conservative?

berryberry's Avatar
So long as we attach things like 'truth' to just one side or the other we are failing in the effort to find solutions. Originally Posted by DNinja69
Are you saying truth does not matter? To liberals, truth certainly doesn't matter given all the utter lies and falsehoods they constantly post.

You mentioned "finding solutions". Please, one can not reason or work with a group like liberals that not only ignores the truth but posts utter lies.
DNinja69's Avatar
Are you saying truth does not matter? To liberals, truth certainly doesn't matter given all the utter lies and falsehoods they constantly post.

You mentioned "finding solutions". Please, one can not reason or work with a group like liberals that not only ignores the truth but posts utter lies. Originally Posted by berryberry
We know that both Liberal and Conservative communities contain all of the same major dysfunctions as most groups their size. Liars, rapists, junkies, perverts, thieves, and abusers are a part of all of us. Citizens. Humans.

One thing I find great about this country is the promise of individual liberty and expression and the right to make our own personal choices. Something that frustrates me on a very real level is the resistance to the concept of letting those things apply to everyone.

It is one thing to openly object to someone else's personal choices and another thing entirely when we try and do something about them.
Jacuzzme's Avatar
Problem with the left is the want to foist their choices on others, especially those most easily open to suggestion, and expect to be granted special rights for making them.
DNinja69's Avatar
Problem with the left is the want to foist their choices on others, especially those most easily open to suggestion, and expect to be granted special rights for making them. Originally Posted by Jacuzzme
Would it be Liberals or Conservatives most active in working against the hobby that this site is built around? If two adults consent to an activity that does not intrude on others is the left more or less likely to be the side wanting to dictate whether that is acceptable or not?

When you say most easily open to suggestion I would offer that young people have parents who have a lot of rights with regard to raising their children. The line that separates indoctrination from education is not nearly as finite as some Conservatives would have us think that it is. When it comes to altering someone's body further than a piercing or hair dye I definitely favor 18 or even 21 as an age to set as a limit.

Teenagers are for the most part horny and looking to better understand and navigate their sexuality which can mean a number of avenues and we have no right to govern their personal choices. By personal I am referring to things that may or may not upset someone else but do not effect others on any real level.

So to me the continued efforts by Conservatives to try and deny, outlaw, or otherwise prevent those who do not fall squarely into the 'hetero' category from making their own choices is in fact a foist that is not acceptable. The Liberals wanting to cross the line from personal choice into irreversible procedures etc are just as wrong.

I have no more standing to dictate that someone else's child dress like a boy, girl, goth, rocker, or hipster any more than they have to tell me how to raise my children.

There are no clean hands on either side. The battle rages one side vs the other. To what end? We could try and fault the founders for one reason or another but are we not grown functional adult type people? There has to be a better way to co-exist that what we are doing today. If a Conservative truly embraces less intrusion and more freedom they should live by that and if a Liberal really values systems in place to offer better availability of services and programs that meet their needs they should realize that some fringe ideas are just not attainable.

Imagine the great things we could accomplish as a nation if we weren't standing in the street pointing at the other side all day desperate to find a WIN anywhere that checks a box to validate the effort. Maybe some real progress could be made with the Social Security system it remains one of the worst investments bordering on state regulated robbery of the American people. Immigration absolutely needs more attention and some kind of coherent long term plan in place.

I don't think we as people are doing nearly enough to facilitate results and solutions though it makes sense to just keep on riding with our Liberal or Conservative efforts and I see legit needs and ideas on both sides. What I don't see is how the current model of adversarial combat producing many positive results for either side.
berryberry's Avatar
When you say most easily open to suggestion I would offer that young people have parents who have a lot of rights with regard to raising their children. Originally Posted by DNinja69
Have you been paying attention to what is happening in liberal states and liberal schools to strip away these parent's rights?
DNinja69's Avatar
Have you been paying attention to what is happening in liberal states and liberal schools to strip away these parent's rights? Originally Posted by berryberry
I have been paying attention to Conservative trying to outlaw life choices especially with regard to sexuality for a long while. Yes there are Liberals asking for more than their share of choices in some regards I am outspoken against giving medical treatments to minors unless it is health related I would not support breast augmentation or butt lifts let them be grown then make that choice.

Let us not try and dismiss the sins of our past there have been far too many efforts to limit rights for people who don't fit the hetero category and it continues to be a stain on Conservatives who attempt to inflict their beliefs on others.

There will always be issues both Liberal and Conservative that cross lines a majority of us do not approve. Have you listened to the people expressing how they and their families were threatened as a result of the backlash from their workplace embracing Pride causes?

I look at some Liberal objectives such as affordable healthcare, corporate oversight, and fair treatment of citizens as vital to our national wellbeing. This is not an endorsement of all things included in those areas but generally they are something I think we could all agree on as important issues.

Conservatives wanting a smaller government footprint and focus on values while not giving handouts for the sake of supporting everyone are goals that make sense to me as well.

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

“And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself” (Matthew 22:37–39).

I try and think through issues with these ideas in mind. Nowhere in either passage are any lines drawn that would separate one side of this topics two groups from the other. A question I ask often in these conversations is 'but is it working' with regard to the current reality we face in a nation somewhat evenly divided between those who consider themselves Liberal or Conservative. The overwhelming answer I hear is No. Hell NO!

As a nation we continue to do the same things and stay mad that better results do not come. It isn't working. What next?
berryberry's Avatar
I have been paying attention to Conservative trying to outlaw life choices especially with regard to sexuality for a long while. Yes there are Liberals asking for more than their share of choices in some regards I am outspoken against giving medical treatments to minors unless it is health related I would not support breast augmentation or butt lifts let them be grown then make that choice. Originally Posted by DNinja69
You said an awful lot but avoided answering the question - Have you been paying attention to what is happening in liberal states and liberal schools to strip away these parent's rights?

Do you support what liberal states and liberal schools are doing to strip away these parent's rights? Its really a yes or no question
DNinja69's Avatar
You said an awful lot but avoided answering the question - Have you been paying attention to what is happening in liberal states and liberal schools to strip away these parent's rights?

Do you support what liberal states and liberal schools are doing to strip away these parent's rights? Its really a yes or no question Originally Posted by berryberry
If you want to keep count I will re-ask the first set of questions I posed directly to you in this thread:

It isn't me it's them. What does that accomplish? Does it work in the business world? Do we navigate family life this way? Where is the example that this contentious angst filled approach with regard to groups of people existing in the same social system is a productive structure to obtain solutions?

You may not like the answers I gave but I did address your questions.
berryberry's Avatar
If you want to keep count I will re-ask the first set of questions I posed directly to you in this thread:

It isn't me it's them. What does that accomplish? Does it work in the business world? Do we navigate family life this way? Where is the example that this contentious angst filled approach with regard to groups of people existing in the same social system is a productive structure to obtain solutions?

You may not like the answers I gave but I did address your questions. Originally Posted by DNinja69


That is a long way of saying you support what liberal states and liberal schools are doing to strip away these parent's rights but are afraid to come right out and say so.
DNinja69's Avatar

That is a long way of saying you support what liberal states and liberal schools are doing to strip away these parent's rights but are afraid to come right out and say so. Originally Posted by berryberry
You are welcome to pretend that is what I believe though I will point out that after making mention of my 'avoiding' your question it was your choice to bypass the questions I posed for a second time. Anyone reading my comments understand that 'afraid' is not an emotion I spend much time with especially when it comes to expressing opinions.
HDGristle's Avatar
You're navigating the waters very well, Ninja
berry said "A liberal always wants to find a scapegoat for their own failures." Can anyone tell me when trump admitted he was wrong?
Jacuzzme's Avatar
Wrong about what? Not that he hasn’t been dramatically wrong at times (ex: Covid lockdown), but the question is too vague.
HDGristle's Avatar
Central Park 5?

We can go decade by decade on how many things he's been wrong about and never cops to

The point is, he's neither liberal nor conservative. He's whatever played best for the group he's trying to bilk money from. Should be trying to rebrand the Green Party, since power and money are what floats his boat
It would be a much shorter list to name the things he's been right about.