Brandon

That’s putting the cart before before the horse…unless we put them to work building those factories. In the meantime though, the continued drain on the US economy worsens. Not to mention the criminal element. Originally Posted by Bowser98

have all the idle factories in the rust belt been torn down already? and if so, sure, lets build new factories. construction is one of the top industries for illegals.

illegal immigration is not a net drain Bowser, not even close. that's like saying the helots were a net drain on ancient Sparta. (and plus, graduating warriors needed a capstone project, which was, kill a helot and don't get caught!) my good libtards in Washington just don't know anything about issue framing. they let the Trumpkins frame the issue, so they're already fucked.

criminal element? the only criminal elements are the corollaries to our insane War on Drugs! end that tomfoolery, and so go the criminal elements. these are people just looking for a shot at a better life. lets give 'em a shot. the bad apples-which are few and far between-we can send back with gps trackers and ankle bracelets for easy id. if they don't like it, tough nookies.

illegal immigration is not a net drain Bowser, not even close. Originally Posted by pxmcc

That's the problem. The 5 million that have crossed the border the last 2 years are not illegals trying to work.
They are being allowed to enter & stay legally, being told not to work & live off charity.
In a few years the government will try to find them & decide if they can stay permanently, gotta love it!

That's the problem. The 5 million that have crossed the border the last 2 years are not illegals trying to work.
They are being allowed to enter & stay legally, being told not to work & live off charity.
In a few years the government will try to find them & decide if they can stay permanently, gotta love it! Originally Posted by MarcellusWalluz

i agree that part of Washington policy is totally upside down and needs to get fixed. the reality is a little different though. when you read their follow up stories in deep dive journalism, work permit or no, these guys (and gals) got some hustle, and they're sending remittances back to their home countries in pretty short order. many of them are working 4 jobs without any papers, or they go through paper mills that give their (typically larger) employers some plausible deniability. i aint into soup kitchens, unless it's for some peeps coming from some seriously fucked up situations like women and children caught in the crossfire in ukraine. otherwise, i'm in favor of work-based permits for people who have hustle and knowhow to help make america better, but not just engineers, doctors and scientists, but cement workers, field workers, factory workers, landscapers, carpenters, janitors, maids, and anyone with some hustle who's willing to have a go at contributing to America. but food stamps? just naw..

i agree that part of Washington policy is totally upside down and needs to get fixed. the reality is a little different though. when you read their follow up stories in deep dive journalism, work permit or no, these guys (and gals) got some hustle, and they're sending remittances back to their home countries in pretty short order. many of them are working 4 jobs without any papers, or they go through paper mills that give their (typically larger) employers some plausible deniability. i aint into soup kitchens, unless it's for some peeps coming from some seriously fucked up situations like women and children caught in the crossfire in ukraine. otherwise, i'm in favor of work-based permits for people who have hustle and knowhow to help make america better, but not just engineers, doctors and scientists, but cement workers, field workers, factory workers, landscapers, carpenters, janitors, maids, and anyone with some hustle who's willing to have a go at contributing to America. but food stamps? just naw.. Originally Posted by pxmcc

Sounds like want to justify hiring a few of them to help you fix your mold problem at your HOA.

illegal immigration is not a net drain Bowser, not even close.
. Originally Posted by pxmcc

Do you have a source for that information? Because from what I’ve read, it is indeed a net drain of billions.

http://www.breitbart.com/economy/202...ild-labor/amp/

http://nypost.com/2022/09/28/rep-cue...iden-must-act/

http://www.census.gov/library/storie...g-america.html

TLDR: The first article is happening and heartbreaking.

Second link illustrates that even Democrats all along the US border, but especially Texas recognize crime, facilities, and institutions are being overrun. Tried to find a press conference from a few months back where mayors, county judges, state reps, sheriffs, and Cuellar spoke out on the problems and that the feds were ignoring it.

Last article is why it is being allowed to happen.

l
^^interesting posts Michael. keep in mind political agendas when assessing alleged "facts." that goes for left and right.

Do you have a source for that information? Because from what I’ve read, it is indeed a net drain of billions. Originally Posted by Bowser98

i'm not trying to avoid giving you the data or shirking from your question, but i'm actually in pre-trial prep for the 1st of 3 lawsuits i filed against my hoa. ya, they really suck, and ya, i'm gonna make em pay for it, well hopefully u know lol

but anyway, here's how economists analyze that question. they look at the net increase to the gdp that illegals produced in goods and services and then they subtract off all liabilities created by the same group such as use of public schools, uncompensated medical care, receipt of any public monies like Medicaid, etc., and the column with the bigger number wins. the reason why the 1st column usually wins has to do with the cultural practices of the "average" illegal alien as of right now. these are people of hispanic cultures that dont grow up expecting government handouts. they have strong family bonds so if an illegal makes it to his family group in the U.S., they will welcome him in even if it means 3 peeps to a room. they are very tight knit and dont want to ask the government for anything because they are afraid of getting deported. the sum total of all those effects is that they produce a relatively small burden on government resources relative to their economic output. and they do the jobs none of us want to do at wages none of us would accept, and do so without complaint or costing the government too much. (course gimmicks like de Santis' stunt can skew that data over the short term. who the heck are their family contacts in Martha's Vineyard on the Cape, u know..)
i wish i had time to get you the raw economic numbers by churning through some government data, but i don't have the time right now. course i'm happy to look at anything authoritative that you run across suggesting the opposite, as that's a quicker exercise on my end.

^^^

https://www.fairus.org/issue/publica...taxpayers-2023

https://www.heritage.org/immigration...isis-americans

^^^

https://www.fairus.org/issue/publica...taxpayers-2023

https://www.heritage.org/immigration...isis-americans Originally Posted by Bowser98

i get a kick out of research articles that present themselves as answering important questions when in fact they do nothing of the sort.
Article 1: calculates net impact as taxes paid-govt expenditures. but gdp is the sum total of all goods and services produced by a country in a given year. the last thing most illegals want associated with them is paperwork. so when an illegal helps a contractor to build a new skyscraper in downtown houston at submarket rates for his skill level and the contractor takes out taxes owed, America got a great benefit from his work: he contributed his skills and didn't get paid full fare, and he cost the government nothing. he didn't even get his tax refund because he was afraid to file a tax return. his boss is responsible for filling out the correct forms, and its on him to comply with the laws. but that contribution was totally omitted from study 1 because it failed to include the value of his work, a positive contribution to GDP. i could point out other problems too, but you get the idea.

Study 2 left out half of the equation. it considered costs without considering benefits. oops..

both studies failed to prove what they said they would prove. and it took me 10 seconds to figure out the problem in each, but longer to type it out lol. im a fast reader but i cant type for shit lol

Get back to me when you have that GDP number. LOL

”he didn't even get his tax refund because he was afraid to file a tax return.”

BS! What happens is a family member or relatives will supply a valid SS and 2 to 4 jobs get reported that way. Or they secure a TIN to report against.

Now for the segment of illegal immigrants from 16 to 50+ there is a net benefit. However when medical services are needed the hospitals from EP to SA to Houston and south get overwhelmed as well as police and schools. So you can’t just use the macro numbers on either side of the equation.

I’m sure AZ and CA is the same. Good on Abbot for shipping bus loads to DC and NY.

Even long time Hispanics recognize problems with the situation and that folks from outside Mexico CA and SA are pouring in.

Three majors problems with this argument:

1) There is no reliable collection of the data.
2) The liberals will always accuse conservatives of quoting biased sources.
3) The conservatives will always accuse liberals of quoting biased sources.

The fact remains, though: I personally feel zero compassion for illegal aliens, be they man, woman, or child. If they are here illegally, they need to be deported. No exceptions.

p]”he didn't even get his tax refund because he was afraid to file a tax return.”

BS! What happens is a family member or relatives will supply a valid SS and 2 to 4 jobs get reported that way. Or they secure a TIN to report against.
px: this might be true for some, but how likely do you think it is for an illegal trying to stay utr to attempt to defraud the IRS by filing a false tax return? very unlikely except for the very dumb or the very bold.
Now for the segment of illegal immigrants from 16 to 50+ there is a net benefit. However when medical services are needed the hospitals from EP to SA to Houston and south get overwhelmed as well as police and schools. So you can’t just use the macro numbers on either side of the equation.
px: correct. i'm not saying our border policy makes sense. many of the costs-enforcement of immigration laws-are self-imposed. fix those laws and those costs go to 0 or close to 0. and if immigration goes legit, then monies from applicants can go to cities where the illegals go, and legit taxes on the work-permit eligible former illegals can go to pay for services they require. the point is you've got to get them out from the shadows to make it workable. work permitees in the u.s. who commit felonies would have everything seized and deported to their home countries with u.s
INS gps-tracking devices left on.

do we have a problem? yes. the true refugee is mostly mythical except in some cases like present-day ukraine or bosnia during the baltic wars. most "refugees" would rather apply for a u.s. work permit over proving their refugee status. those cases weigh down heavily on our federal courts and should be restricted to only the most severe situations. the point is to get to the u.s., not to get handouts because you're a refugee. they aren't coming for the handouts, but for the chance to work and make it in the U.S.

also, i'm not proposing an open border. i'm proposing a border where immigrants can petition for a u.s. work permit. that would include an application wherein a hopeful immigrant would provide all of his background info and work experience, health information, his criminal convictions in his home country-which can be independantly verified by the State Department-his family contacts in the U.S., any U.S. employer sponsorship, his means of travel and proof of funds to get there, a fee for applying for a U.S. work permit, a GPS tracking device while in the U.S., and so on. if the candidate meets all the requirements and can show he'd be a net asset to the U.S., he'd be given a 6 month work permit, although he'd be required to check in with the INS in his destination city. when his work permit expired, he'd be required to renew it every 6 months for a reasonable fee. ppl who don't meet the requirements would be deported with a GPS device to make subsequent re-entry attempts impossible.

I’m sure AZ and CA is the same. Good on Abbot for shipping bus loads to DC and NY.
px: those are costly gimmicks. if an illegal has family contacts in Phoenix, shipping him to NYC is silly.

Even long time Hispanics recognize problems with the situation and that folks from outside Mexico CA and SA are pouring in.[/QUOTE]
px: i agree. that's why i'm against an open border. i'm for a regulated and controlled border with a workable work permit system with GPS tracking as a feature.

Three majors problems with this argument:

1) There is no reliable collection of the data.
2) The liberals will always accuse conservatives of quoting biased sources.
3) The conservatives will always accuse liberals of quoting biased sources.

The fact remains, though: I personally feel zero compassion for illegal aliens, be they man, woman, or child. If they are here illegally, they need to be deported. No exceptions. Originally Posted by Bowser98

px: i hearya.
but as long as we have dumb laws on the books, those dumb laws still need enforcement. i say lets change dumb laws and create laws which will improve the U.S. like those that would allow present illegals to staff new factories that they build so we dont have to buy anything from china. we need to make our own products-with help from present illegals on the factory floors-and become a net exporter instead of a net importer, as we are now. U.S. citizens would be needed as foremen, middle management, and upper management. Illegals wont have the education needed for those positions.

as to bias, you have to start from raw data and be willing to submit to peer review. otherwise, you get to conlusions that can't be trusted. recently, we found out that Fox hosts knowingly lied to their viewers. so anything you "learn" on Fox (or Breitbart) should be subject to scrutiny.

compassion is up to the individual. my proposed legal immigration plan isn't based on compassion, it's based on who can help us one up China and keep them a distant second in economic and military power to the U.S. they are accelerating and catching up to us quickly. former illegals with work permits will provide rocket fuel at the base of the economy. and they'll pay SS, Medicare, and income taxes, supporting the retiring boomers. also, it will help with low birth rates in the U.S. otherwise, we'll end up looking like japan, which has too many old ppl relative to young.

i do however have compassion for women and children who are true refugees of war. if you don't, then i guess we can haggle over whether the refugee provisions should be kept if and when our immigration laws get fixed. hopefully. i say keep em for extreme cases and only for women and children, not able bodied men 18 and up.

LOL !!

That’s just to much to read