Hobby Lobby Invests In Numerous Abortion And Contraception Products While Claiming Religious Objection

Who owns 401(k) assets Zanzibar? The employee or the company? Don't know about you, but my 401(k) has always belonged to me, and I'm the one that chose what funds and companies to invest them in.

Do you have a 401(k)? Originally Posted by RedLeg505

lol ok guy....I will refrain from being a smart ass and simply tell you that if you have a 401k you're only choosing from the funds that your company has preselected for you. Every company has a 401k commitee that has 401k advisers to ensure they're making sound plan decisions and mutual fund selections. If you don't like the offering then you can always go the ROTH or traditional IRA route. So to answer your question the company owns it you just make investment decisions based on the offering. That's the easy and most simple way it can be explained.

The company just doesn't believe in being forced to pay for it. The Government is the one "trying to shove their beliefs down another's throat". If Obama thinks free contraceptives and abortifacient drugs are an inalienable right of all US citizens, let him set up government dispensaries on every street corner instead of violating the Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993. Frame the issue properly, you dipshit. Originally Posted by lustylad

The assets are invested by "funds" that hold hundreds of individual stocks that are bought and sold on a regular basis. The funds manage "three quarters of Hobby Lobby's assets" but the cited investments are a tiny fraction of what they manage. I doubt if Hobby Lobby was even aware of the drug company holdings and I am sure the company will require the funds who handle its 401(k) business to steer clear of those investments in the future.

. Originally Posted by lustylad

Hey Lazy Lad if you weren't so mentally lazy you'd actually be a refreshing comic relief.

So Hobby Lobby doesn't want to pay for something (on the grounds of religious belief) they're investing in. You cannot run a business that size and then pretend you have no idea what your fund investors are doing. I mean seriously guy are you that uneducated in a political forum. You should really drop all the emotional outbursts and name calling act because to progressives like me it only serves to prove you're more incompetent than you seem. So on what basis are you so sure of Hobby Lobby's investment decisions going forward. Let me guess on the basis of mutual religious feelings?
You are a total and complete hack my man. So answer this basic question Lazy lad. Where does the employer religious intrusion stop? Does it stop at blood transfusions, cancer treatments, ultra-sounds. What about a religious belief that forbids a gynecological exam. All the inept and conservative supreme court did with their short sighted ruling was allow businesses the option to discriminate amongst their employees and amongst the healthcare benefits they offer based on their own religious belief. The difficulty in the SCOTUS decision is in validating Hobby Lobby's beliefs. It's clear to most level headed thinking people that Hobby Lobby is a fraud since they invest in these companies that make the very product they're denying.

So just to be clear you're totally and completely against government intrusion but you're perfectly ok with employer intrusion. Why should private employers have the right to tell us what to do based on their religious beliefs but Obama doesn't have that same right to tell us what to do based on his. I swear you tea party folks are a real piece of work and that's putting it mildly.

Now let me switch gears. Lazy lad with your support of Hobby Lobby are you saying you prefer a single payer system? I would love to hear your views on a Single-Payer system. You now have time before you answer to go do some more research. LOL

I like you Lazy Lad you're a very entertaining one.

The best part about all this. Hobby Lobby is claiming religious rights under Christianity blah blah.

Imagine if they were ran by muslims. And said all their woman had to wear burqas or else it would violate their religious sensitivities. Jesus christ they would go under over night.

Care to expound on that "employee religious belief" for us. They were denied nothing except someone else paying for their abortion drugs. That is not a right! HL provided 16 of 20 drugs on the list before Obamacare.

Do you people really believe what you're saying and do you understand it as well. NO ONE was denied any treatment. The only thing that was denied was the right of the owners of Hobby Lobby to have their religious values respected and that was done by Obama and Sebilius. Those employees had every right to go down to the drug store and get what they needed. Why do you think that someone has the RIGHT to reach into my pocket for their medicine (which could also be medicinal pot)? Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Why stop there? Why should employers pay for any medical services at all. In fact why should they reach in their pockets to even pay livable wages at all. It's their RIGHT not to. Why provide any social services. While we're at it let's get rid of the 911 service, if someone has a heart attack let them revive themselves why intrude on others to help them out. If your house catches fire screw the fire dept. we don't need them let it burn to the ground.

I could easily rant on to your silly notion with the same reason we're all required to pay taxes. Like Obama said: "You didn't build that" meaning your business doesn't operate in a vacuum. However, what I'd like to see is Hobby Lobby explain and prove their ridiculous religious belief and be forced to explain it in the context of their clear abortion supporting investments.

In the end maybe these are all just rhetorical questions for myself because I don't expect a simpleton like you to actually get the gist of my rant.

The best part about all this. Hobby Lobby is claiming religious rights under Christianity blah blah.

Imagine if they were ran by muslims. And said all their woman had to wear burqas or else it would violate their religious sensitivities. Jesus christ they would go under over night. Originally Posted by PipelinerTx

Lol you know it. I guess for me all this Obama hatred in the name of fiscal conservatism is nothing but a front for deeply held racial hatred based on a flawed upbringing by many of these people. If it's all about fiscal politics then just where was the Tea Party prior to Obama taking office? What's really disturbing is these same people call themselves religious and believers in the Christ. They are no different than the Catholic priests with all their homosexuality and pedophilia while preaching redemption.

Why stop there? Why should employers pay for any medical services at all. In fact why should they reach in their pockets to even pay livable wages at all. It's their RIGHT not to. Why provide any social services. While we're at it let's get rid of the 911 service, if someone has a heart attack let them revive themselves why intrude on others to help them out. If your house catches fire screw the fire dept. we don't need them let it burn to the ground.

I could easily rant on to your silly notion with the same reason we're all required to pay taxes. Like Obama said: "You didn't build that" meaning your business doesn't operate in a vacuum. However, what I'd like to see is Hobby Lobby explain and prove their ridiculous religious belief and be forced to explain it in the context of their clear abortion supporting investments.

In the end maybe these are all just rhetorical questions for myself because I don't expect a simpleton like you to actually get the gist of my rant. Originally Posted by Zanzibar789

You've just proven you're a statist, fascist and an imbecile. In just one post!

The investment landscape is complicated and I am very sure that my money is invested somewhere in the maze with companies that I do not like in the least... Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

That's very true for everyone. If your 401(k) plan includes an S&P 500 index fund (as virtually all of them do), then your plan assets are invested in virtually every nook and cranny of the US economy.


"...(do) those on the left... realize that they have just indicted any Christian with an index fund, or offering its employees the chance to invest their own dollars in one, as being necessarily a hypocrite if even one company within the fund does anything immoral?"

"What does Mother Jones’ 401(k) plan look like? Surely its 401(k) plans invest in stocks of oil and gas companies, defense contractors, private equity firms, and other evil conservative power bastions... Should I call them hypocrites for daring to invest in a 401(k) which invests in a mutual fund which invests in a multinational company which happens to own an oil company?"

http://thefederalist.com/2014/04/02/...estments-work/

Upon close examination, the whole Mother Jones argument looks weaker and weaker and flimsier and flimsier until it becomes a joke. Using the same argument, any company or any employee with a 401(k) can be frivolously accused of hypocrisy on almost any issue, liberal or conservative.

.

You're an idiot. Just thought I would clarify that.

Hobby Lobby is a GOP leaning company and they have a reputation of treating their employees well. They just don't want to pay for abortions. Originally Posted by ExNYer

A smart idiot though. ;-)

A smart idiot though. ;-) Originally Posted by Zanzibar789

In what just may be the most stunning example of hypocrisy in my lifetime, Mother Jones has uncovered numerous investments on the part of Hobby Lobby’s retirement fund in a wide variety of companies producing abortion and contraception related products Originally Posted by Zanzibar789

I said it before, I will say it again.

You're an idiot. A mouth-breathing, shrill, unthinking, progressive dullard.

It is the 401(k) plan of their EMPLOYEES.

Hobby Lobby doesn't control the 401(k) plan. They hire plan managers who provide employees with different choices of investment funds - indexed funds, money markets, bonds, foreign funds, etc. The company doesn't pick the funds.

Hobby Lobby has to deduct the money from their salaries, but the money belongs to the EMPLOYEES and the EMPLOYEES pick how THEIR money gets invested.

The whole point of defined contribution plans (401k) as oppose to defined benefit plans (company pensions) was to get companies OUT of the retirement business.

In fact, I think it might be illegal for Hobby Lobby to interfere with employee' 401(k) contributions.

So, if employees invest in Pfizer, which makes a LOT of drugs, not just birth control pills because Pfizer provides a good return, then Hobby Lobby can't do shit about it.

So, what was your point again?

A smart idiot though. ;-) Originally Posted by Zanzibar789

See above.

Keep trying.

You also didn't address my point in the other thread, which is that Hobby Lobby - a GOP leaning company - has a reputation for treating its employees well. Contrary to your ridiculous premise.

lol ok guy....I will refrain from being a smart ass and simply tell you that if you have a 401k you're only choosing from the funds that your company has preselected for you. Every company has a 401k commitee that has 401k advisers to ensure they're making sound plan decisions and mutual fund selections. If you don't like the offering then you can always go the ROTH or traditional IRA route. So to answer your question the company owns it you just make investment decisions based on the offering. That's the easy and most simple way it can be explained. Originally Posted by Zanzibar789

Ever heard of a self directed 401K plan, genius?

The assets are invested by "funds" that hold hundreds of individual stocks that are bought and sold on a regular basis. The funds manage "three quarters of Hobby Lobby's assets" but the cited investments are a tiny fraction of what they manage. I doubt if Hobby Lobby was even aware of the drug company holdings and I am sure the company will require the funds who handle its 401(k) business to steer clear of those investments in the future.

. Originally Posted by lustylad

In the future but current hipocracy? Today don't count or what? Not being aware States what? So they only have to be responsible when they feel the need!

I said it before, I will say it again.

You're an idiot. A mouth-breathing, shrill, unthinking, progressive dullard.

It is the 401(k) plan of their EMPLOYEES.

Hobby Lobby doesn't control the 401(k) plan. They hire plan managers who provide employees with different choices of investment funds - indexed funds, money markets, bonds, foreign funds, etc. The company doesn't pick the funds.

Hobby Lobby has to deduct the money from their salaries, but the money belongs to the EMPLOYEES and the EMPLOYEES pick how THEIR money gets invested.

The whole point of defined contribution plans (401k) as oppose to defined benefit plans (company pensions) was to get companies OUT of the retirement business.

In fact, I think it might be illegal for Hobby Lobby to interfere with employee' 401(k) contributions.

So, if employees invest in Pfizer, which makes a LOT of drugs, not just birth control pills because Pfizer provides a good return, then Hobby Lobby can't do shit about it.

So, what was your point again? Originally Posted by ExNYer

Same thing with the money used to pay the contraceptives or the pill. Its employees benefits! They're money! Who gives a fuck if the employee needs a fucking pill!

Ever heard of a self directed 401K plan, genius? Originally Posted by Jewish Lawyer

Employees still pick the stocks, dickhead. It is THEIR money.

And IS the Hobby Lobby plan self directed? Or did you just throw that out their hoping?