Spreadsheet for managing your hobby budget

I enjoy the debate as well and I certainly do not feel attached. This is a silly hooker board, I really do not care what any of you think of me. I use the board as a form of entertainment. I enjoyed it so much last night, I looked this morning to read for replies.

Old-T as usual, you miss my argument completely. Never do I say because you hide something it is wrong. My argument is on point and as it is more logical than yours, you twist its meaning. Your reading comprehension magically goes very low, and I know you have more intelligence, you just do not like being on the wrong side of a debate. Read Nola comments, him and I disagree but he still keeps his smarts about him even though he gets what I am saying and realizes the truth to the logic I post.

To be clear for those who missed it, my argument is people hide things from loved ones when they do wrongful or less than honorable acts. We do so out of shame, why does Nola not tell his family about hobby "does not want to deal with their crap." Meaning he has a level of shame and does not want to face it with his mother. That is truth. Why do we feel this way? Because we know we are being selfish and unrespectful when we pay for sex and we do not want to face it.

The act if paying for sex is not a moralistic act. Nola, you are correct people are not the same and some can deal with emotional harm better than others. Again though just a person in denial typically says, "the ones you sleep with are not harmed, she likes it" again the exception to the rule. If every lady we lay with is the exception to the rule why do mental health professionals speak of the harm and trauma to a woman that prostitutes herself? Are they all wrong too? And cigarettes cause cancer but not you right? They are healthy for the smoker who is addicted, calms him down, makes him feel relaxed. Cigarettes are good for him until it is too late for him. Called denial.

I work with many of these providers in outside business. Why? Because they want out of this harm they are allowing to themselves. Popular ladies get addicted to the cash flow, buying brand name clothes, etc. But still are unable to be a part of a healthy emotional relationship. They do not like it. Become friends with some of these ladies without having sex or paying them a dime and their stories are very sad. When a provider knows I will never pay her or have sex with her, but I will hang out with her, the truth and pain comes out. The vast majority, even ladies you lay with do not enjoy this, they are just good actresses. They do not orgasm, nor do they even get very aroused at all anymore. Most need lubricants because the thought of sex becomes a complete turn off. She does not enjoy sex with any of us. Orgasms for them come through masterbation, not clients. And they do orgasms with clients every so often but very rare. Again you are the exception aren't you? They all orgasm with you and enjoy you don't they? Denial.

The act of paying for sex is disgraceful, admit that to yourself and a happier you is around the corner. People act selfishly at times, does not make them bad people. I think we are good people that act disgraceful and selfishly at times. Just as heros, at times, act selfishly as well, we just do not honor them for their selfish acts, we honor them for their selfless acts.

oh yea somthing for the wife to find on the computer.

remember the scene in "Casino" where the gangster warns the other one "no records, you want to pay taxes?"

are you going to use this for a tax writeoff?

My argument is on point and as it is more logical than yours, you twist its meaning.

To be clear for those who missed it, my argument is people hide things from loved ones when they do wrongful or less than honorable acts. We do so out of shame, why does Nola not tell his family about hobby "does not want to deal with their crap." Meaning he has a level of shame and does not want to face it with his mother. Originally Posted by gentlemantoo

You continue to over generalize, which has been your problem all along.

Yes, for some it is guilt. But for others that is not the case.

For some, they feel no guilt about it but do not want to hurt others--mother, sister, kids, etc. Of course there are many who DO believe this whole corner of the universe is wrong, but it is far, far from a universally held belief. There are billions of people in the world--a bigger majority I would guess--who believe eating certain foods are immoral. Does that make it evil? No, but I have a good Muslim friend who would not want his father to know he occasionally has a beer with us, or a brat. HE has no issues with it, but he knows his father would.

And then there are the situations similar to my previous example: cases where a person believes they are completely in the right, maybe even beyond "right", but the society will punish them for what they say or do. A nun who was jailed for refusing to provide contraceptive devices. Houses burned for being openly Muslim--or Jewish, or Christian in some places. African villagers shot by police for openly supporting the wrong party. Or in this case a bible thumping boss who would fire someone who saw an escort on their own time--even if in parts of NV where it was legal--because the BOSS felt it was wrong, not because the person themselves did.

People keep many things private because of how others will feel/act, not always because they themselves have any issue with their actions.

In the same way you stretch arguments beyond their valid connections. In your most recent post you say "People act selfishly at times, does not make them bad people" but in most your posts that is far from the message you state.

If you were to stop at saying many of the ladies would like to stop and get out of the business, I would agree. But you leap to "all", and that is not true. Many do not enjoy being with some of their clients. Some enjoy none of their clients at all. I suspect most enjoy some of the people they do business with--what percentage I do not know.

I deal with a fair number of ladies in this world, many as you claim: no sex between us. A fair number live far away, and we have never met in person but have spent hours on the phone or in e-mails. Some are women who have gotten out of the business and are now just friends--because they wish to be. I hear stories similar to what you say, and I hear very different ones as well. Whether it is the particular ladies you know, or the filters you keep on your eyes, you seem to see a much narrower spectrum of this world that is actually out there. If you would not be so dogmatic about the rigidity of this place I think we would actually agree on some things, but I have just seen too many ladies who do not fit your mold.

Getting back to the op's offer of a spreadsheet: Simply way to much work as most simply look at the pictures.

I used to keep a spreadsheet. Sure, I kept track of what I spent, but it was mostly used as an attempt to try and rank the girls I've seen. I never listed a providers handle, I just used a coding system. It would just look like some random budget I was working on.

To be clear for those who missed it, my argument is people hide things from loved ones when they do wrongful or less than honorable acts. We do so out of shame, why does Nola not tell his family about hobby "does not want to deal with their crap." Meaning he has a level of shame and does not want to face it with his mother. That is truth. Why do we feel this way? Because we know we are being selfish and unrespectful when we pay for sex and we do not want to face it. Originally Posted by gentlemantoo

If a gay dude in the 50's felt the need to hide from his family the fact that he had gay sex, did that make having gay sex wrong? I don't believe so, I think it just suggested that maybe his family's beliefs weren't developed enough to handle such information. If you feel like you should hide your involvement in this hobby from somebody, that says more about what you think about that person's beliefs than your own.

The act if paying for sex is not a moralistic act. Nola, you are correct people are not the same and some can deal with emotional harm better than others. Originally Posted by gentlemantoo

I don't concede that all women are harmed by this hobby. I'm not sure there's much I can say to prove that. I think our differences in belief on this might be due to the differences in our experiences with women. You obviously have never met a woman that wouldn't be harmed here.

If every lady we lay with is the exception to the rule why do mental health professionals speak of the harm and trauma to a woman that prostitutes herself? Are they all wrong too? Originally Posted by gentlemantoo

Yes, they're all wrong. They were practically all in agreement on the homosexuality issue, too.

The vast majority, even ladies you lay with do not enjoy this, they are just good actresses. They do not orgasm, nor do they even get very aroused at all anymore. Most need lubricants because the thought of sex becomes a complete turn off. She does not enjoy sex with any of us. Orgasms for them come through masterbation, not clients. And they do orgasms with clients every so often but very rare. Again you are the exception aren't you? They all orgasm with you and enjoy you don't they? Denial. Originally Posted by gentlemantoo

I used to really enjoy what I do for a living. Now it's kind of boring much of the time, but I love the fact that it pays well and doesn't require a lot of effort. Sometimes I get a kick out of it, but usually I just go through the motions. When disaster strikes, I have a bad day. I think some providers are like that. This is their dream job because it makes a lot of money for not a lot of effort compared to anything else most of them could be doing. They may not always enjoy it, they may have have some really bad days, but most days may be no worse than just boring. Some days may even be fun. The ones that can't separate their emotions from sex are probably going to have a bad time, but some people can and don't. I know this is true, the question is how often is this true in the hobby? I can't answer that. I would imagine it's more often true with providers than civvies, but maybe what I'm suggesting is more rare than I realize. Or maybe the typical encounter with a john is worse than I realize.

While I respect and envy the ability of some to devote enough resources to The Hobby that a spread sheet is convenient to manage one's expenditures, it seems to me that the OP may be under-employed or other wise have too much free time on his hands.

From many years of "active lurking" on this board (and ASPD before) I realize that there are many in this community here considerable disposable income to devote to lobbying around every month. My "budget" involves how much and how often I can quietly squirrel away a portion of my allowed lunch money. Then there is the problem of schedualling time-away, off-the-grid and UTR. When resources and opportunity coincide, I may be able to schedule a session.

Nice Spread-Sheet . . .can't use it . . .too bad.

If you really have to budget that kind of thing, I’d hide it in plain sight using beer call or night out with the guys, fishing, or hide it in several hobby budgets and then no one is the wiser.

.... or hide it in several hobby budgets and then no one is the wiser. Originally Posted by ugotme10

Wait a min, do we need separate hobby phones for each hobby?

But back to the spreadsheet:
Is there a spot on the spreadsheet for hobby phone expense?
Or vehicle travel expense?

After all it's a budget thing.

I disagree and do not think prostitution is a woman's dream job. I do not recall ever hearing any female aspiring to be a hooker. If it were a dream job there would be plenty more prostitutes out there.

I still think you view sex for a woman the same way a man does. Do you realize how harmful it is to separate your emotions from you, there is a medical term for it - trauma. What many men that fight in wars go through, same exact thing called dissociation. Very traumatic for women and even harmful. Some men go to war and only have nightmares or only have bad memories, slight harm but still harm. Never heard of a man coming home and talking like he went to Disney World, not a dream job. Same for prostitutes, they go through PTSD just like men of war from dissociation while laying with us.

It is not natural for a woman to lay with lots of men in a single day. It is not natural for a woman to lay with any man she hardly knows. It is why they get paid, if they liked it or wanted it, we would not have to pay them. What she does is physically and emotionally exhausting, it involves her body and the deepest of private arenas for her being, allowing penetration of another person. The hobby takes away her ability to make a normal home, to have regular and common relationships. She sacrifices her normalcy to make money. She does it almost always out of a sense of desperation for finances. That is harmful any way you slice it. Going to war is emotionally harmful any way you view it. How we as individuals deal with that harm varies.

Guilt and shame or not the same thing. We do hide things from loved ones out of shame. To deny such is just ridiculous and called denial. Question is do you hide it from your family due to shame or guilt or to not hurt their feelings. No need to answer it here in public, just ponder it and only you know the truth for you. I just admit I hide it from my mother out of shame. Because the act of paying for sex is selfish and harmful to others.

Ask yourself if you ever laid with a woman for money and if she was not really into it, is it harmful for her? Or do you ignore and get your rocks off anyway. Refuse to think about it or see it for what it truly is? Are you saying you never paid for sex where is was harmful to someone? I do not think you are.

The gay dude in the 50's think he might have felt some shame or guilt about being gay when society tells him it is wrong. Think maybe he felt what was wrong with him for being attracted to men? I think most did and out of that shame kept it in the closet. Shame is very powerful and sneaky. Most do not hide things to protect others, they do it under the BS they tell themselves of helping others but truly do it out of protecting their selves.

Wait a min, do we need separate hobby phones for each hobby?

But back to the spreadsheet:
Is there a spot on the spreadsheet for hobby phone expense?
Or vehicle travel expense?

After all it's a budget thing. Originally Posted by Unique_Carpenter

You can add the travel expense to the total in the Cost field. I'm not sure there's a point to factoring in the hobby phone expense. That isn't relevant in determining when to see your next provider and how much to spend on her.

I still think you view sex for a woman the same way a man does. Do you realize how harmful it is to separate your emotions from you, there is a medical term for it - trauma. What many men that fight in wars go through, same exact thing called dissociation. Very traumatic for women and even harmful. Some men go to war and only have nightmares or only have bad memories, slight harm but still harm. Never heard of a man coming home and talking like he went to Disney World, not a dream job. Same for prostitutes, they go through PTSD just like men of war from dissociation while laying with us.

It is not natural for a woman to lay with lots of men in a single day. It is not natural for a woman to lay with any man she hardly knows. It is why they get paid, if they liked it or wanted it, we would not have to pay them. What she does is physically and emotionally exhausting, it involves her body and the deepest of private arenas for her being, allowing penetration of another person. The hobby takes away her ability to make a normal home, to have regular and common relationships. She sacrifices her normalcy to make money. She does it almost always out of a sense of desperation for finances. That is harmful any way you slice it. Going to war is emotionally harmful any way you view it. How we as individuals deal with that harm varies. Originally Posted by gentlemantoo

Again, I'm not sure it's a traumatizing experience for every woman in the hobby. Many men can easily separate their emotions from a sexual experience without causing any sort of trauma. Some women can too. Having to pay them doesn't prove it's traumatizing to them. Most people get paid to do jobs that they wouldn't do for free. They're not usually traumatized by the work. It's just not something you would choose to do if you weren't being paid.

Ask yourself if you ever laid with a woman for money and if she was not really into it, is it harmful for her? Or do you ignore and get your rocks off anyway. Refuse to think about it or see it for what it truly is? Are you saying you never paid for sex where is was harmful to someone? I do not think you are. Originally Posted by gentlemantoo

I've gotten the impression a couple of ladies were uncomfortable with kissing during the session. That made me wonder if the whole thing was unpleasant for them. Maybe it was harmful. I still finished the sessions.

The gay dude in the 50's think he might have felt some shame or guilt about being gay when society tells him it is wrong. Think maybe he felt what was wrong with him for being attracted to men? I think most did and out of that shame kept it in the closet. Shame is very powerful and sneaky. Most do not hide things to protect others, they do it under the BS they tell themselves of helping others but truly do it out of protecting their selves. Originally Posted by gentlemantoo

I don't believe those people should be judged for feeling like they needed to hide what they were or for being duped into feeling shame. They were victims of a messed up culture. We're not nearly as persecuted, but I certainly don't believe we should be judged for feeling the need to keep this to ourselves either. Attached dudes that don't tell their wives or girlfriends that they hobby should feel shame. I believe the rest of us aren't doing anything wrong. It probably would make my mom feel bad if she found out. I would like to avoid that. I don't feel any shame, though. If I felt the way you do about this hobby I probably would.

Wait a min, do we need separate hobby phones for each hobby?

But back to the spreadsheet:
Is there a spot on the spreadsheet for hobby phone expense?
Or vehicle travel expense?

After all it's a budget thing. Originally Posted by Unique_Carpenter

Maybe I should have extended that to mean bowling, woodcarving, stamp collections.. etc.
Now ya know.

Why would one want to have incriminating evidence like this stored on their PC?? Originally Posted by garhkal

It's no problem if you're harddrive is encrypted like it should be.