Why Do Liberals Hate Patriotic Symbols?

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Sa_artman, are you listening? Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Apparently you don't. America is changing and has no place for anti-government extremists like you.

something old to consider - a quote by good old TJ "I love my country, but I fear my government." - Thomas Jefferson (if it's not the exact words it's close)

I am very patriotic and support our troops always.

I stand up for the bill of rights - all ten not just some selective ones.

I have a right to my complaints and I do vote.

One thing I wonder about conservatives is - if they don't want to conserve anything, why do they call themselves conservatives. To talk about some more recent topics, I have issues when puppets with no experience are put on national platforms with mottos like "Drill baby drill."

A government make up of the corporations, run by the corporations, for the corporations to benefit the corporations.

An entire group of people so sure that Jesus is coming they think it's cool to tear up the entire globe and wait for his return in the destruction they created for themselves. Has anyone ever thought that hell is what's left over after we destroy everything else?

I'm just not proud of the way that we act sometimes, and I suppose I have to include myself in the bunch....but sometimes I do wish I could separate myself from it when I'm ashamed of the way that we act. That doesn't mean I don't love my country. I just don't like the way some us act.

S&L scandals, robbing people's retirement funds, predatory lending ... all regulated into law and then left in place and allowed to ruin people's lives.

Enron and BP

Oil spill in the gulf - researchers are still not allowed to enter many areas in the coastal estuaries but the gov't is calling it 'cleaned up'. Covered up maybe - but cleaned up? No...

Anyways - it's not about Vietnam for me or the Gulf war. I believe in the second amendment. I want to protect myself and I know we have to protect ourselves. Whether I agree with where the troops get sent I'll always support them. I know they are made up mostly of kids who just want to get to college and defend their country doing it.

Che Guevera and other socialist and communist leaders, in a pure sense, I do agree with a lot lof what they have to say. They are trying to protect individuals from being pushed around by large groups. In practice, most of the time it looks as ugly as Capitalism - especially Imperialist Capitalism.

Tax credits for the rich and the corporations, the biggest deficit due to that and then blame it on the next president when there's a budget shortfall. Horrible education system. We pay more taxes than almost any other country. What's wrong with asking for basic healthcare? I don't think we get a good deal for our money in the US. We have a right to complain about it.

Apparently you don't. America is changing and has no place for anti-government extremists like you. Originally Posted by Sa_artman

Lo and behold, you are the second "liberal" this week - in this forum - to threaten me, et al, with death or expulsion . . . and yet you dare call me an extremist? Be careful not to choke on the acrid smell of hypocrisy. BTW, better get your money back from Miss Cleo, you still do not have me pegged.

I can not speak with any degree of certainty that Ayers and Dohrn are actually "liberals." Quite frankly, I do not recall either. But let's assume for a moment that you are correct in categorizing them as "liberals." If so, they no more represent the average "liberal" view in America than David Koresh and Timothy McVeigh represent the average "conservative" view in America. They are all on the fringe, whether it be Far Left fringe or Far Right Fringe. If you recall, that is exactly the point I originally made, "there are extremists on both sides of the political spectrum."

In my original response about Jane Fonda, (whom I do remember) I chose not to mention Koresh or McVeigh. Instead I mentioned Glenn Beck. I believe extremists commentators like Beck and Limbaugh represent a greater threat to America's freedom than Ayers, Dohrn, McVeigh or Koresh. If for no other reason than they have a huge following.

With the possible exception of a select few followers, nobody really pays attention to the lunatic fringe players, such as Ayers, Dohrn, McVeigh or Koresh. However, people do listen to Beck and Limbaugh. Why? Wecause Beck and Limbaugh have a national media audience. In truth, they are entertainers who try to pass themselves off as legitimate news commentators. Unfortunately there are those who are ignorant enough to take Beck's and Limbaugh's brand of entertainment as factual information. At the end of the day, the only thing that really matters to an entertainer is higher ratings.

In short, higher ratings equals huge $$$$$ to entertainers like Beck and Limbaugh! I suspect they laugh at the ignorant all the way to the bank! Originally Posted by bigtex

Maybe it’s geographical proximity and I remember more clearly because I lived near Detroit in those days. And, if you recall, Detroit had similar issues around that same time period.

I too don’t remember Ayers and Bohrn as individuals, but I do remember them as part of a violent group of anarchists. Hence, they, along with “Hanoi” Jane, and others, represent the “left” I grew up despising.

The Weathermen were responsible for the Days of Rage demonstrations in Chicago in October 1969. I remember Walter Cronkite on CBS reporting on the bombing of the police station in San Francisco in 1970 that killed one police officer and maimed another. And I also remember the Greenwich Village townhouse explosion in March 1970 where three Weathermen blew themselves up assembling bombs. The Weathermen were also associated with the Brinks armored car robbery in 1981 that left two policeman and a security guard dead.

I found this line at wiki: “Harvey Klehr, the Andrew W. Mellon professor of politics and history at Emory University in Atlanta, said in 2003, ‘The only reason they were not guilty of mass murder is mere incompetence. I don't know what sort of defense that is.’”

Earlier, I posted a picture of “Hanoi” Jane and Sa_artman posted a picture of McVeigh. I counter poise Sa_artman with pictures of Ayers and Bohrn—associates of the “Anointed One”— and you mention David Koresh and, again, Timothy McVeigh. Note, I am not advocating that what McVeigh did was right; nor am I arguing that the state was wrong for executing McVeigh, but it is interesting and ironic to note who is “back in the fold” and who is dead.

“Hanoi” Jane prospered amidst her consorts and peers in the liberal entertainment industry in sunny California: home to Boxer, Feinstein, Waters and Pelosi—people I would vote against were I in their respective districts. Ayers is now a professor of education at the University of Illinois at Chicago. In 2001, a New York Times reporter quoted Ayers as saying “I don't regret setting bombs” and “I feel we didn't do enough”, and, when asked if he would “do it all again,” as saying “I don't want to discount the possibility.” Dohrn is an Associate Professor of Law at Northwestern University School of Law. A teacher of teachers and a lawyer, hmmm?

It’s also very notable that it was liberal Democrats, “Slick Willie” and his AG, Janet Reno, that so effectively crushed the wrong believing Koresh, et al, at Waco and let’s not forget that dangerous-independent-Libertarian Randy Weaver, and his family, at Ruby Ridge. One sometimes forgets how effectively the left deals with "bad guys"; so, USL’s sudden passing shouldn’t have come as such a surprise.

I don’t listen to Limbaugh and rarely see Beck’s show. But as I listened to the “Anointed One’s” speech yesterday, I couldn’t help but notice the animosity he was trying to stir up: “I’ve said to some of the Republican leaders, you go talk to your constituents, the Republican constituents, and ask them are they willing to compromise their kids’ safety so that some corporate jet owner continues to get a tax break.” Are Limbaugh’s disingenuous and wordy attempts to “fracture” this country really so different?

Apparently you don't. America is changing and has no place for anti-government extremists like you. Originally Posted by Sa_artman

America has a place for everyone. Shame on your for saying otherwise.

Lo and behold, you are the second "liberal" this week - in this forum - to threaten me, et al, with death or expulsion . . . and yet you dare call me an extremist? Be careful not to choke on the acrid smell of hypocrisy. BTW, better get your money back from Miss Cleo, you still do not have me pegged. Originally Posted by I B Hankering

LOL. Nice try to put spin on that. Cry me a river. No, got you pegged just right and you know it.

America has a place for everyone. Shame on your for saying otherwise. Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

Sooo...your saying you endorse terrorists? Shame on you.

Sooo...your saying you endorse terrorists? Shame on you. Originally Posted by Sa_artman

Why is it when someone wants to make an angry, little point the pull out terrorists or bandits or baby killers? It's always cracked me up. Of course I don't endorse terrorists. I also don't endorse the false modesty of liberals.

"Give me your tired, your huddled masses yearning to breath free, the wretched refuse teeming to your shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me. I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

Nothing has changed. This is the same America it ever was.

Sooo...your saying you endorse terrorists? Shame on you. Originally Posted by Sa_artman

Sa_artman, ya just ain't getting it. I guess it's that feeble, liberal minded education you have. It's your buddy Obama that associates with and is endorsed by terrorists. Talk to Miss Cleo AND get yourself some new reading glasses and a hearing aid.

Apparently you don't. America is changing and has no place for anti-government extremists like you. Originally Posted by Sa_artman

Lo and behold, you are the second "liberal" this week - in this forum - to threaten me, et al, with death or expulsion Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Wow! Threaten death or expulsion? That's quite a stretch you make there, IBH.

. . . and yet you dare call me an extremist? Be careful not to choke on the acrid smell of hypocrisy.

From another thread:

IMHO, you do not deserve the freedom's we who served offer. I truly wish that people like you, who would rather see a socialist society, would pack your bags and use the freedom you have to freely leave. Originally Posted by DFW5Traveler

I think IBH just called you an extremist, DFW5.

Either that or he's a hypocrite.

Wow! Threaten death or expulsion? That's quite a stretch you make there, IBH. Originally Posted by Doove

No, it's not a stretch for his feeble, extremist educated little mind. Next to his wall posters of Mcveigh and Buford Furror hangs his flag.

And people wonder why this was moved out of Diamonds & Tuxedos.

I'm right

No I am right.

NOOO, I AM right.

No way, I am right.

Maybe this is some strange foreplay and it needs to be discussed in another realm.

Why?

Because symbols are a sign of unity and collective community values.

Liberals are frigtened by such thoughts - they think of patriotic America as a collection of small town idiots who are truck driving racists, right wing religious fanatics, who are both armed and jingoistic. People who love America because they are stupid and unemployed (Obama's view). Originally Posted by Whirlaway

I'm sorry, but it's such broad stroked, unintelligent statements like this that make me question the validity of anything you've said. It also shows the same narrow-minded thoughts by you from the other side. If this is truly how you feel about anyone who doesn't believe the same as you, coupled with your utter disdain for all those you deem "liberals," it's almost futile to have a rational, thought provoking conversation with you on this subject.

It's one thing to take an informed side of an issue. It'a another thing to be so close minded that nothing could alter, in the least, your way of thinking.

A recent Harvard University Study concludes that patriotic symbols/celebrations, such as Independence Day (4th of July), is right-wing propaganda that indoctinates American youth into the culture of Republicanism...the left fears the symbols that unify and define American patriotism.

News story link: http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/was...are-right-wing

Harvard University Report:

http://www.hks.harvard.edu/fs/dyanag...urthOfJuly.pdf

Nothing differnet from what I have seen in the escort review threads.....

And people wonder why this was moved out of Diamonds & Tuxedos.

I'm right

No I am right.

NOOO, I AM right.

No way, I am right.

Maybe this is some strange foreplay and it needs to be discussed in another realm. Originally Posted by Boltfan