Can Trump pull off the deal of the century?

Trump’s arrogance allowed Putin to play him for the fool that he is. Because of Trump’s delusions about Zelensky and the first impeachment trial, and Trump’s delusions that Putin is his friend and can be trusted we end up here in this place.

A place where the US has backtracked on its commitments to Ukraine while Putin bombs Ukrainian cities indiscriminately. All in the deluded belief by Trump that only he can get Putin and Zelensky to put down arms and make a peace deal.

Well I’m sorry but it’s never going to happen. The only way this ends in more than a stalemate is if Putin and Russia give up the fight. Otherwise we’re going to see a no man’s land in Eastern Ukraine for some time to come and What’s left of Ukraine becoming a NATO member.

Just my two cents on the matter.

I suspect 100% of Ukrainians wanted Russia to not invade. Originally Posted by 1blackman1

Well, what do they want now? Polling shows most residents want Crimea to remain part of Russia. And while polling in the Donbas is less conclusive, probably a majority of residents in the part controlled by insurgents prefer affiliation with Russia. Peoples' responses varied depending on whether the pollster had a Ukrainian or Russian telephone number, as you might expect.

What's striking is that the highest percentage in a KIIS (Kyiv International Institute if Sociology) January, 2022 survey, just before the shit hit the fan, agreed with, "It doesn’t matter to me which country I live in; all I want is a good salary and then a good pension." Contrary to your beliefs, all Ukrainians don't want to fight to the last Ukrainian.

https://5g.wilsoncenter.org/event/pu...s-contact-line

Here's a message received from a work colleague, who used to live and work in Russia, and who has a friend, Dmitry, who lives in Russia and who originally hailed from Donbas. His relatives still live there. I've edited to avoid outing him or me.

Dmitry's extended family, Aunts and Uncles and cousins live in ********* under the jack-boot of the Ukrainian Army and last time I heard feed-back about six months ago, they were fearing for their lives daily. Skin-heads patrol the streets and pistol whip any dissenters. They are afraid to speak Russian as they have a mixed Russian and Cossack heritage. (Dmitry's Mom and Dad live between Moscow and Novy Urengoy where they are rotational workers on ******* projects). Dmitry's aunt and uncles and cousins have been living in their respective basements for a few years now, one cousin died of a heart attack last year (only 40 years old). Dmitry was devastated, it's all very sad for Ukrainians to be thrust into a major war with one of the most effective armies historically and the west pouring weapons in, to 'save Ukraine just increases the misery of the people who can't do much as they don't live in a democracy as we understand it.

So here's a case of a Ukrainian family waiting for Russia to liberate them from their basements.

I believe your 100% is a tad high Blackman.

Trump’s arrogance allowed Putin to play him for the fool that he is. Because of Trump’s delusions about Zelensky and the first impeachment trial, and Trump’s delusions that Putin is his friend and can be trusted we end up here in this place.

A place where the US has backtracked on its commitments to Ukraine while Putin bombs Ukrainian cities indiscriminately. All in the deluded belief by Trump that only he can get Putin and Zelensky to put down arms and make a peace deal.

Well I’m sorry but it’s never going to happen. The only way this ends in more than a stalemate is if Putin and Russia give up the fight. Otherwise we’re going to see a no man’s land in Eastern Ukraine for some time to come and What’s left of Ukraine becoming a NATO member.

Just my two cents on the matter. Originally Posted by txdot-guy

Trump had nothing to do with "we end up here in this place." that started decades ago. and the US and NATO had a lot to do with why we are where we are today. Not Trump.



Russia's invasion of Ukraine is justified and not just in Russia's eyes. all you need to do is look at the many broken promises made by NATO and the US since the fall of the USSR and the fact that Ukraine reneged on a referendum for Dobas to join Russia.



and that whole "won't expand eastward" promise


the fact is the US, NATO and Ukraine poked the Russki Bear one time too many


that's why we are where we are

What’s left of Ukraine becoming a NATO member.

Just my two cents on the matter. Originally Posted by txdot-guy

Ukraine is NEVER EVER going to become a NATO member. That is an absolute Dead On Arrival event. Not even rump Ukraine will be allowed in NATO because the Russians will ABSOLUTELY go to guns over that point.

Ukraine will be de-militarized to a large extent. They will still have a large security force but it won't be pointed at Russia it will be used to keep Ukrainian Nationalists from fomenting more bloodshed.

NATO membership was ultimately the entire play by Brennan and Nuland... and you can see the results. You seem to understand very little about the Russian psyche... for Russians, Ukraine becoming a member of NATO would be viewed like Cuba becoming a member of the Warsaw Pact in 1961 would have been viewed by Americans... its just never going to happen.

You quite LITERALLY don't understand war. The world can funnel cash into Ukraine but that doesn't translate to the battlefield. THere are no Ukrainians to keep fighting... Putin doesn't have to give up anything... but that also doesn't mean he won't. The Russians need good press and their security concerns are pretty much taken care of if the conflict ends today.... so never say never.

As for the last bit...you think Trump is more divisive than Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Lenin, Bonaparte, or Jerry Jones? Originally Posted by texassapper

Just to address 3 points.

Putin is the on who is out of soldiers- even North Koreans are fighting for him now-...C'mon man you don't have that happening if you are deep in pp.

Zelensky is also short on ppl, but also money and weapons.- (likely as is Putin) but unlike Putin who DOESN'T have the support of NATO or other bleeding hearts and EU contries willing to support him, like they do Zelensky. If you think money doesn't win wars as much as guns do, you are the one who's mistaken. The only reason Putin is still semi flush- is the illegal purchases of oil and gas from him by non committed countries who have violated the embargos the US has placed on him. If the US wanted to support Ukraine fully- give him air support vehicles and armaments. A-10s F-16's, 18's or even Apaches and Blackhawks. They are thowing rocks at Russia who have medium range missles- fighting back with drones. Good lord.

On the last part of divisiveness- Fuck'n- A- yeah Trump's as divisive as any other Fascist authoritarian or dictator. He has 50+% of the usa hating him, and hating each other. The rest of the EnTIRE World hates the US and specifically Trump. LIkely MORE than those other ppl. Trumps even mentioned jailing and offshoring citizens- that sounds a lot like these other fucko's on your list. Cept likely those ppl would have just shot them--but I digress.

At least Hitler unified the majority of his country with a lot of public works and impressive buildings and highways. Not implying he was good for them, but he accomplished shit.- look at the Autobahn, and there are a dozen other YUGE projects they built (not all for good mind ya but they did them). Trumpy cannot even build a wall, which was his whole schtick back in 2016, yet you don't hear a peep about that now. Guess that wall wasn't so fucking important after all- especially when you have a gestapo of ICE ppl out there supervised by commandstress Christy McPuppy-Blaster.

Trump just sits and points, and has concepts, and ideas of plans that will line his own pockets w crypto exchanges.

Nothing to do with betterment of this country.

Name one thing Trump has done that from either an infrastructure, or a new policy plan that would better the lives of every single American. Fuck, even his tax policies hurt the most vulnerable and help the least vulnerable. What a fuckin joke.

Can he pull off the deal of the century? Not one god-damned chance in hell he can. And the reason is- he doesn't have the cards. He's sitting with a 2-7 offsuit, a red tie and ugly fucking shoes. Maybe Vlad would let him talk a little if Melania offers up a blowey during the lunch or a nice blumpkin afterwards.

Just to address 3 points.

Putin is the on who is out of soldiers- even North Koreans are fighting for him now-...C'mon man you don't have that happening if you are deep in pp.

Zelensky is also short on ppl, but also money and weapons.- (likely as is Putin) but unlike Putin who DOESN'T have the support of NATO or other bleeding hearts and EU contries willing to support him, like they do Zelensky. If you think money doesn't win wars as much as guns do, you are the one who's mistaken. The only reason Putin is still semi flush- is the illegal purchases of oil and gas from him by non committed countries who have violated the embargos the US has placed on him. If the US wanted to support Ukraine fully- give him air support vehicles and armaments. A-10s F-16's, 18's or even Apaches and Blackhawks. They are thowing rocks at Russia who have medium range missles- fighting back with drones. Good lord.

On the last part of divisiveness- Fuck'n- A- yeah Trump's as divisive as any other Fascist authoritarian or dictator. He has 50+% of the usa hating him, and hating each other. The rest of the EnTIRE World hates the US and specifically Trump. LIkely MORE than those other ppl. Trumps even mentioned jailing and offshoring citizens- that sounds a lot like these other fucko's on your list. Cept likely those ppl would have just shot them--but I digress.

At least Hitler unified the majority of his country with a lot of public works and impressive buildings and highways. Not implying he was good for them, but he accomplished shit.- look at the Autobahn, and there are a dozen other YUGE projects they built (not all for good mind ya but they did them). Trumpy cannot even build a wall, which was his whole schtick back in 2016, yet you don't hear a peep about that now. Guess that wall wasn't so fucking important after all- especially when you have a gestapo of ICE ppl out there supervised by commandstress Christy McPuppy-Blaster.

Trump just sits and points, and has concepts, and ideas of plans that will line his own pockets w crypto exchanges.

Nothing to do with betterment of this country.

Name one thing Trump has done that from either an infrastructure, or a new policy plan that would better the lives of every single American. Fuck, even his tax policies hurt the most vulnerable and help the least vulnerable. What a fuckin joke.

Can he pull off the deal of the century? Not one god-damned chance in hell he can. And the reason is- he doesn't have the cards. He's sitting with a 2-7 offsuit, a red tie and ugly fucking shoes. Maybe Vlad would let him talk a little if Melania offers up a blowey during the lunch or a nice blumpkin afterwards.

Originally Posted by eyecu2

I suppose we will see.

I’m sure Putin didn’t want any country joining NATO. Not because NATO was going to invade Russia. But because that would strike the country off Putin’s will take back into the Empire list. NATO has not and won’t be a military threat to Russia. It just boxes Russian in from invading other nations. So I guess that’s all the reason Russia needs to fear NATO’s expansion east.

Now for our Putin apologists and RT believers, Russian propaganda doesn’t really play well and blaming NATO or Ukraine for the Russian invasion tells us all we need to know about you.

And poor Tiny. I pity you bro. Your desire for peace at all costs is shameful. I used to fuck a chick from Ukraine and did work for a Ukrainian owned company in the 2010s. None of them wanted to be part of Russia. In fact they all wanted greater Ukrainian independence and a long desire to see Ukraine accepted into main Europe including the EU. None of them cared about NATO or military shit. They just wanted their friends and family to feel safe, which they never really did because of the threat of Russia’s desire for Ukraine to return to the empire. Of course not every Ukrainian wants to fight to the end, shit not every American would do the same for this country, but that doesn’t make us any less desirous of remaining free.

At least Hitler unified the majority of his country with a lot of public works and impressive buildings and highways. Originally Posted by eyecu2

You guys are priceless. Trump is worse than Hitler!!!! Hitler at least had the cattle cars running on time!

You're TDS makes you unable to be satirized.

The best part of all this is that it exposes that you think the world is like Jr.. High... concerned over who likes you and who doesn't!!

Understanding Eastern European Politics can be trying.

Keep in mind, in the mind of many older Russians, it wasn’t more than 84 years ago when Germany was knocking on the door of Moscow, and just at 200 years ago when the French were doing exactly the same thing.

Putin is a ruthless thug. But he is the “Leader” of one of the largest Countries on the Planet. The people in Russia are taught history in a manner that does appeal to their natural distrust of the West.

That is their problem. Most of the civilized World considers their “President” a murdering thug who retains power through fear.

Take away Russia's nuclear arsenal, and they barely rate as a first world Country.

It might be in the end, the only people who can end the killing is the Russian People.

Sounds like you're working with Putin. Originally Posted by Schwarzer Ritter

...Man, what I would find extremely hilarious and quite the appropriate end to most matters is if the Alaskan govenor surrounded and apprehended putin party and put him on a one way flight to the Hague. Originally Posted by Precious_b

Seriously SR, can you explain how my statement there is in bed with pooty?

Your the new kid here (unless you want to dispute it by proving what your Bandle is) so you can see what my posted position on putin and Russia is for the past few years. I invite you to post a link where I support what the dictator there is doing. I know maggies absolutely cringe on backing up what they say with facts that are available...especially when pointed to where such are.

To which question? Probably the most difficult would be to get the left to acknowledge what Trump has been able to pull off. He has already got warring parties to sign treaties without the left saying anything. If he pulls off the hat trick they will sit on their hands like the democrats in congress did when Trump was honoring Americans. Originally Posted by Schwarzer Ritter

I would LOVE to acknowledge donny pulling off a treaty with Ukraine and Russia (I ain't gonna sour the deal by including Israel and the Palestinians, one miracle at a time).
But trump strong, everyone weak bragging ain't there when he is mouthing that it is just a listening thing and he ain't got any hopes. The only words that have been closest to the truth amongst all parties is Zelensky stating putin ain't serious about peace.

I'm just following the logic of the left. If you say something nice about Putin, you might be sucking his dick. Every time Trump says Putin smart the left points their finger and goes "look, we told you". If you say Putin is going to get over on Trump....you know.

I do not think there can be a lasting peace between Ukraine and Russia as long as Putin is running things in Russia.

The Ukrainian position is and will be the return to pre-2014 borders. Putin will refuse any chance that Ukraine will join NATO. Putin's long game is the annexation of all of Ukraine. . . .with the larger goal of reconstituting the former USSR.

President Trump may be able to financially bludgeon Putin into a cease fire, but Putin will never let go of his vision for a unified Ukraine and Russia.

If there is any "permanent" settlement on borders this time, Putin will, if still in power, and with a weaker president in the White House, re-invade zUkraine. That is why he can't allow Ukraine to join NATO.

I do not think there can be a lasting peace between Ukraine and Russia as long as Putin is running things in Russia.

The Ukrainian position is and will be the return to pre-2014 borders. Putin will refuse any chance that Ukraine will join NATO. Putin's long game is the annexation of all of Ukraine. . . .with the larger goal of reconstituting the former USSR.

President Trump may be able to financially bludgeon Putin into a cease fire, but Putin will never let go of his vision for a unified Ukraine and Russia.

If there is any "permanent" settlement on borders this time, Putin will, if still in power, and with a weaker president in the White House, re-invade zUkraine. That is why he can't allow Ukraine to join NATO. Originally Posted by ICU 812

I agree with this assessment of the situation 100%. Putin's long game is the annexation of all of Ukraine. . . .with the larger goal of reconstituting the former USSR.

The question is what to do about it. I supported Biden’s and NATO’s plan to support Ukraine financially and militarily without sending in allied troops. A strategy of making it cost as much as possible for Russia to take Ukraine without putting boots on the ground.

I understand Trump’s desire for peace and a return to normalization with Russia because it is good economically for the US and most of the world. It’s just bad for Ukraine.

The failure is not with the Ukrainian people who want peace and the stability of the European Union but rather Putin and his desire for empire.

I just don’t see a scenario in which Trump gets a peace agreement without throwing Ukraine under the bus.

Hasn’t an agreement been made with the Europeans that we would furnish the weapons if they pay for them.

Which they’ve agreed to. But somehow Trump is trying to back out of that. Guess he didn’t expect them to agree.

As I understand the agreement, Europe will give Ukraine their current arms and purchase new ones for themselves, as that’s the fastest way to facilitate further arming Ukraine.

Trump and Tiny have a desire for peace at all costs even if it means Ukraine’s subjugation to Russia. At least fewer Ukrainians would die seems to be an acceptable cost to Ukraine for Trump and Tiny.