OBAMACARE ARCHITECT: OF COURSE WE LIED TO GET THE THING PASSED !

Not if the Secret Service came knocking on your door.

Changing people's quotes is fucked up without putting the FIFY.

The only one to do it was Marshall and now gfejunkie. I have no problem firing back at folks misquoting me.


. Originally Posted by WTF

Don't forget Whiny Old Dicksuck. It's one of his favorite ploys.

The constantly denied that any of the "cost" in Obamacare were a tax. They called all of the monies to be paid anything but a tax. The rank and file had specific orders to NEVER utter the word Tax when talking about the ACA. The people bought it.

But then, when it comes before the Supreme Court, the Court says that Congress could not levy so called " fees", but stated that since Congress had the power to levy Taxes, just call all of those Fees Taxes. Wala, the law is indeed Constitutional because all of the fees are INDEED a tax. And since Congress has the power to levy taxes, all was hunky dory.
Originally Posted by Jackie S

If you choose to purchase health insurance, then you don't have to pay a tax or fine or a fee. If you choose not get health insurance, the tax is $95 the first year. If your state (Texas) had excepted the expanded Medicaid, everyone would be covered, and you would no longer need to pay a tax to support the local county hospital, that sees poor patients for free.

If you choose to purchase health insurance, then you don't have to pay a tax or fine or a fee. If you choose not get health insurance, the tax is $95 the first year. If your state (Texas) had excepted the expanded Medicaid, everyone would be covered, and you would no longer need to pay a tax to support the local county hospital, that sees poor patients for free. Originally Posted by flghtr65

So Fluffy, do you support lies and deception on the part of government to get a bill passed that, according to you, everyone loves and benefits from?

Not if the Secret Service came knocking on your door.

Changing people's quotes is fucked up without putting the FIFY.

The only one to do it was Marshall and now gfejunkie. I have no problem firing back at folks misquoting me.


. Originally Posted by WTF

You should be more concerned if someone quotes you accurately. That just doubles how stupid you sound.

So Fluffy, do you support lies and deception on the part of government to get a bill passed that, according to you, everyone loves and benefits from? Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

COF, There was deception, but I think the senators that were on the committee ( like Olympia Snowe) understood what they were voting for. The dollar amount of the fee or tax is the same regardless of what you call it ($95 for first year if you don't get insurance). Congress voted on the ACA bill not the public. A lot of congressman/congresswoman are lawyers, they can read. BTW, the ACA bill only affects 20% of the population. The other 80% get there insurance in the employer market just like they did before the ACA was passed. Only 20% of the population (the individual market) benefits from this bill. This 20% happens to be 40 million people. The bottom line is people with pre-existing conditions need to have health insurance. Prior to the ACA this was not possible in the individual market. The republicans still do not have an alternative plan.

I can play that game..... Originally Posted by WTF

Especially with your concierge mod service ... and if you can keep score.

Free shit...you lying cocksucker. This has cost me an extra six grand a year.

So which cost more in terms of lives and money ? Obama care or the 4 trillion dollar WMD'S deception?

It terms of context between the two you Tea bullies look like the world's biggest hypocrites.

. Originally Posted by WTF

You are THE moronic buffoon.

It's cost me an extra 5 grand a year...AND I have "employer paid" health care!

You need to use your healthcare more as your OCD overwhelms you to never stay on topic.

What will cost more has yet to be seen. BTW, what iteration of the Iraqi war are you speaking of?

You think we would have went to war had we not linked 9/11 to Saddam. Fuckers ain't had shit to do with 9/11. Dumb ass public fell for it.

I see you to chickenshit to answer which cost more... Iraq War or Obamacare Originally Posted by WTF

You moronic buffoonery in full view. BTW, the Democrats voted for both. Ask BigKotex and Hillary if you need some reference material.

Boo hooo. You hurt my ass Originally Posted by WTF

The rule was about changing the user's name like from WTF to WDF. Did you pound the RTM again? Are you still getting concierge mod service? Why change what you have written; it can't get any funnier?

If you choose to purchase health insurance, then you don't have to pay a tax or fine or a fee. ..... Originally Posted by flghtr65

Wrong! Now purchasing insurance has more taxes and fees included in it! Purposely passed onto consumer! Gruber admitted to it in the vid!

COF, There was deception, but I think the senators that were on the committee ( like Olympia Snowe) understood what they were voting for. The dollar amount of the fee or tax is the same regardless of what you call it ($95 for first year if you don't get insurance). Congress voted on the ACA bill not the public. A lot of congressman/congresswoman are lawyers, they can read. BTW, the ACA bill only affects 20% of the population. The other 80% get there insurance in the employer market just like they did before the ACA was passed. Only 20% of the population (the individual market) benefits from this bill. This 20% happens to be 40 million people. The bottom line is people with pre-existing conditions need to have health insurance. Prior to the ACA this was not possible in the individual market. The republicans still do not have an alternative plan. Originally Posted by flghtr65

Quoted for hilarity.

The penalty for no insurance gets much steeper as the 2016 election approaches. As Pelosi said "We have to pass it in order to see what is in it." You numbers are overestimates, they've already lowered the Obamacare sign ups for 2015 to 9 million. Also, many people with pre-existing conditions had access to health insurance in (I believe) 38 states.

If you see a Donkey and I convince you its a Race Horse....then calling you stupid in the way of the Horse industry ain't to far off the mark.



You think we would have went to war had we not linked 9/11 to Saddam. Fuckers ain't had shit to do with 9/11. Dumb ass public fell for it.

I see you to chickenshit to answer which cost more... Iraq War or Obamacare Originally Posted by WTF

It's way to early to say which cost more. Come back in 10 years and compare.

I personally don't believe Bush lied about the WMD's. You apparently do. This thread is not about Iraq or WMD's. It is about whether or not it is OK for an administration to lie to the American people for the purpose of passing a law. You believe that it is OK and you defend this POS administration for doing this and yet you condemn Bush for lying. You are a hypocrite. The Obama lie was only swallowed by democrats. They are the ones that are to stupid to understand what it was that was being shoved down their throat.

So obamacare is costing you an additional $6000 per year. What happened to Obama's claim that it was going to lower cost for the majority of the American people?

COF, There was deception, but I think the senators that were on the committee ( like Olympia Snowe) understood what they were voting for. The dollar amount of the fee or tax is the same regardless of what you call it ($95 for first year if you don't get insurance). Congress voted on the ACA bill not the public. A lot of congressman/congresswoman are lawyers, they can read. BTW, the ACA bill only affects 20% of the population. The other 80% get there insurance in the employer market just like they did before the ACA was passed. Only 20% of the population (the individual market) benefits from this bill. This 20% happens to be 40 million people. The bottom line is people with pre-existing conditions need to have health insurance. Prior to the ACA this was not possible in the individual market. The republicans still do not have an alternative plan. Originally Posted by flghtr65

Remember the Pelosi quote that we needed to pass the bill to find out what is in it? You are correct that many in congress are lawyers and should be able to read and understand the bill. The republicans all understood that is was all lies. Smoke and mirrors. The fucking dems either are to stupid to realize it was lies or are complicit in the deception.

You are probably correct in that it will only benefit 20% of the population but it will have an impact on every one of us. Employer provided insurance is being changed. Employees are having to pay more for their insurance. Hours are being cut to avoid having to offer insurance to employees.

It's funny how this clown mocks the stupidity of the public when they weren't even the ones who voted for it. He should have referred to the stupidity of Congress.

20% of the population, Huh?

COF, There was deception, but I think the senators that were on the committee ( like Olympia Snowe) understood what they were voting for. The dollar amount of the fee or tax is the same regardless of what you call it ($95 for first year if you don't get insurance). Congress voted on the ACA bill not the public. A lot of congressman/congresswoman are lawyers, they can read. BTW, the ACA bill only affects 20% of the population. The other 80% get there insurance in the employer market just like they did before the ACA was passed. Only 20% of the population (the individual market) benefits from this bill. This 20% happens to be 40 million people. The bottom line is people with pre-existing conditions need to have health insurance. Prior to the ACA this was not possible in the individual market. The republicans still do not have an alternative plan. Originally Posted by flghtr65

Businesses not ready for employer mandate

Health care remains top employer concern

BY DAN COOK
October 31, 2014

Health care costs continue to bedevil managers of small-to-mid-sized businesses. But talent acquisition is quickly catching up to health insurance as a limiting factor in their growth, and the competition from U.S. and foreign firms is heating up.

These are some of the high-level findings of a comprehensive study produced by Lucas Group, a national recruitment firm specializing in search and placement services for strategic business functions. Lucas does a quarterly survey of top executives in this business segment, and found that many are redesigning health plans to try to adjust to the effects of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.

The SMB Job Generation Outlook probed respondents on the PPACA as businesses with 50 or more employees get ready for the law’s employer mandate that will require them to provide health insurance to employees or pay a penalty.


Read more: http://www.benefitspro.com/2014/10/3...ployer-mandate





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Pelosi denies knowing key Obamacare architect, Dr. Gruber ...




... but as usual, Pelosi is lying:

"The MIT economist [Dr. Jonathan Gruber] was a key player on both the Massachusetts and national health overhauls."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...AzcL_blog.html

But it's not just the Washington Post! In 2012, The New York Times reported that Dr. Jonathan Gruber helped “draft the specifics” ... and there's a ...

2009 VIDEO>>> where Nancy Pelosi MENTIONED GRUBER BY NAME!

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014...rite-our-bill/


‘Oh, you meant *that* Gruber?’

http://twitchy.com/2014/11/13/oh-you...t-worse-video/

It's way to early to say which cost more. Come back in 10 years and compare. Originally Posted by Budman

Will do but let's make it 40 years!....we can add up how much pay for our wounded's long term health care has cost.


WASHINGTON, Mar 30 2013 (IPS) - Costs to U.S. taxpayers of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan will run between four and six trillion dollars, making them the most expensive conflicts in U.S. history, according to a new report by a prominent Harvard University researcher....

...
After researching federal records, it reported last week that compensation for World War II veterans and their families only reached a high in 1991 – 46 years after the war ended.
It also reported that, almost exactly 40 years after the last U.S. combat troops left Vietnam, the government is still paying veterans and their families or survivors more than 22 billion dollars a year in war-related claims, and that that figure is on the rise, as the beneficiary population ages. Similarly, payments to Gulf War veterans are also increasing.
The much-greater costs to be incurred by the Iraq and Afghanistan wars are explained by, among other factors, much higher survival rates among wounded soldiers, more generous benefits for veterans, new categories of beneficiaries, more expensive medical treatments, and increases in both pay and benefits for troops in order to gain more recruits for the all-volunteer army. http://www.ipsnews.net/2013/03/iraq-...ollars-report/

I personally don't believe Bush lied about the WMD's. You apparently do. This thread is not about Iraq or WMD's. It is about whether or not it is OK for an administration to lie to the American people for the purpose of passing a law. You believe that it is OK and you defend this POS administration for doing this and yet you condemn Bush for lying. You are a hypocrite. The Obama lie was only swallowed by democrats. They are the ones that are to stupid to understand what it was that was being shoved down their throat.
Originally Posted by Budman

Oh Bush lied....whether he did it on purpose or not is another verse but there is no doubt he lied because we did not find what we were told we would find.

Hypocrite? ...do you think Obamacare will kill 4,400 US Soldiers?....have more than 253,000 troops suffered a traumatic brain injury.

I am not even counting all the innocent live that the nation of Iraq lost.

So obamacare is costing you an additional $6000 per year. What happened to Obama's claim that it was going to lower cost for the majority of the American people? Originally Posted by Budman

Yes , I use to self insure. I paid out of pocket for any medical costs. Now I pay 500 bucks a month to Cigna. I'm not the majority of Americans.

Employer provided insurance is being changed. Employees are having to pay more for their insurance. . Originally Posted by Budman

You do understand that employees should have been paying tax on the insurance their employee provided as it is really nothing more than a wage. Self employed people have had to...

I'm not arguing that Obamacare is good, in fact it needs to be overhauled. The fucking GOP needs to get on board and actually offer up something besides REPEAL.

The insurance industry would collapse if ACA was dismantled. So would the U.S. Healthcare system.

Are you going to pay to reace/rebuild that? Again?

Didn't think so.

COF, There was deception, but I think the senators that were on the committee ( like Olympia Snowe) understood what they were voting for. The dollar amount of the fee or tax is the same regardless of what you call it ($95 for first year if you don't get insurance). Congress voted on the ACA bill not the public. A lot of congressman/congresswoman are lawyers, they can read. BTW, the ACA bill only affects 20% of the population. The other 80% get there insurance in the employer market just like they did before the ACA was passed. Only 20% of the population (the individual market) benefits from this bill. This 20% happens to be 40 million people. The bottom line is people with pre-existing conditions need to have health insurance. Prior to the ACA this was not possible in the individual market. The republicans still do not have an alternative plan. Originally Posted by flghtr65

The projections by the CBO were discussed back in March 2014.

The CBO projects by the year 2018, 25 million of these 40 million will be insured by the exchanges. Look at the column graph for table 3. The increase in the percentage of people insured happens over time, specifically from years 2014 to 2018. The increase in the total per cent of non-elderly citizens insured goes from 83 to 93%. Thus the CBO is predicting that the effect that the ACA will have is that the percentage of insured citizens will increase by 10%. It takes 4 years for this increase to happen. It will not happen in one year. The 93% projection would be closer to 100% if all states excepted the expanded Medicaid. Only half of the states have excepted the expanded Medicaid.


http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fil...0Estimates.pdf