We don't need no stinking papers

The above is inaccurate, the Mexican immigration law was reformed in 2008 (yes the information above is the way it used to be), illegal immigration in Mexico is no longer a crime but a civil violation just like it is in the U.S. Originally Posted by Toreador_one

Source, please.

It is my understanding that the "Senate" passed a fine only criminal statute for first offenders, and the "House of Representatives" passed a somewhat modified version of legislation and both measures were jammed in "committees" and not passed. Happens in this country as well.

But Mexico was addressing the "policy" of allowing persons South of her borders to travel through the Republic of Mexico to reach the U.S. ... and the previous "policy" was to date-stamp their travel documents (passports/visas) and give them 3 days to traverse Mexico and get into the U.S.

Additionally, the existing laws at the time were simply ignored at times by some local LE who received "mordida" in exchange for "a walk"!

I have never entered Mexico without my "papers" and I have never left "home" without them when in Mexico..... along with sufficient "pesos" to get back "home" without getting my ass kicked. In over 40 years of traveling around Mexico I have never been "high jacked" by criminals ... only local, state, and federal policy with a little military mixed in. That is the experience of family members and friends, who have also lived and traveled there.

The general discussion IMO regarding immigration policy centers around the right of a nation state to secure its borders and the limited resources available to those legally present with her borders. We are not doing that, other countries are. For those other countries to criticize us for trying to do so is hypocritical. The bottom line is that the rank and file citizen of Mexico (and the politicians) do not want us to close our borders to "their problems" so we can take on their problems ... providing jobs and medical care ... for those they wish not to help .... and they do not want those folks back home. They have had the same attitude about the drug business ... it has always been a source of income and provided a higher standard of living for folks that would not otherwise have jobs.

The problem is that Mexico did not control drugs in the beginning and allowed it to fester into the cancer they now have. We are next. Whether you like it or not, Arizona is the front line at the moment, and they are using the U.S. nationally owned lands for "safe" passage.

Source? If you had researched the topic from your source before you posted it you would have found that fact. I did my homework.

Even after reading your latest post a couple of times, I fail to see the point however I did notice you mentioned Mexico a number of times, as if Mexico is the only country where illegal immigrants come from.

You provide unfounded opinions such as "Mexico (and the politicians) do not want us to close our borders to "their problems" so we can take on their problems" (source please, ha ha) and "they do not want those folks back home." and "They have had the same attitude about the drug business ... it has always been a source of income and provided a higher standard of living for folks that would not otherwise have jobs." a little biased aren't you?

Regardless JackSparrow said it best, there are two opposite sides, it is clear where you stand, we can dicuss and argue and throw all kind of stats, information and their sources and it will not sway your opinion or mine. So.... I am done with this topic.

Mine the border and put a bounty on all of the illegals........unemployment will drop like a rock in freefall.

Source? If you had researched the topic from your source before you posted it you would have found that fact. I did my homework. Originally Posted by Toreador_one

I see you do not have a source to support your statement. Rather than do "homework" you might get out and about.

You and Howard Dean on facts. Birds of a feather.

And BTW:

The issue in Arizona IS ABOUT MEXICO!

Drugs,
Money from kidnappings, human traffic,
Folks sneaking across the border from there.

"Good fences make good neighbors."

And I won't even mention that ...

.. Veracruz was a German U-boat base in WWII!

Mine the border and put a bounty on all of the illegals........unemployment will drop like a rock in freefall. Originally Posted by dearhunter

Ha that's funny guy like DearHunter are too lazy and think there too good to cut there own lawn and take of there own kids or cook there own meals.
It was the greed of Americans that created the problem of employing illegal immigration that work harder and for less than the average American.
Look at Sheriff of Harris County Adrian Garcia and the Houston Police Chiel McCelllan who would have thought minorities would run the Law Enforcement in Houston.
Look out the Mexican Americans and African Americans are taking over and that's what really scares Anglo Americans

Ha that's funny guy like DearHunter are too lazy and think there too good to cut there own lawn and take of there own kids or cook there own meals. Originally Posted by carkido45

I will be proud of this country when the illegal immigrants flooding across our borders final reach the voting majority in this country and turn this country into the fiscal, political, and industrial empire that it deserves to be, instead of the broke, weakling that those damn Anglo-Americans have been creating for the past 200 or so years.

We will finaly be a world power, who everyone around the world loves and respects.

viva la raza

Ha that's funny guy like DearHunter are too lazy and think there too good to cut there own lawn and take of there own kids or cook there own meals.
It was the greed of Americans that created the problem of employing illegal immigration that work harder and for less than the average American. Originally Posted by carkido45

Your eyes must be brown.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/08/02...-head/#content

Aren't we monitoring international phone calls for suspected terrorist activity, or is the Federal Government too wrapped up in building its court cases against Arizona and Virginia? They know the NObama administration isn't about to throw out 20 million future Democratic voters by cracking down on illegals, the human smugglers and the drug cartels. NObama will let them slide, while forging ahead with lawsuits against any state that dares to question his administration.

.. 20 million future Democratic voters ... Originally Posted by i_love_blonde_girls

In Bexar County, back when the Democrats ran everything unanimously, vegetable trucks were used to haul voters from the South and West sides who were gathered by the block captains who passed out the list of candidates to be selected at the polls. After "pulling the lever" the obedient voters were rewarded with beer and food at one of the local government maintained parks in their area.

It was a remarkable show of the benefits of ............ refreshments.

Every two years, food and beer. In between, nada.

So you take one (or a few) conversations at a Walmart checkout and throw all of us under the bus? Really? The truth is that many of us Hispanic Americans want the Federal Government to do something about the problem. But unlike some here I know that the U.S.A NEEDS those workers and could not take the after affects that taking all those illegal workers out of the loop would cause. Texas has known this for many years, their own comptroller put this out in 06':

"The Comptroller’s office estimates the absence of the estimated 1.4 million undocumented immigrants in Texas in fiscal 2005 would have been a loss to our Gross State Product of $17.7 billion. Also, the Comptroller’s office estimates that state revenues collected from undocumented immigrants exceed what the state spent on services, with the difference being $424.7 million (Exhibit 18)."
Source: http://www.window.state.tx.us/specia...documented.pdf

I don't condone some of the proposed legislation that has been cited because of the discrimination aspect pure and simple. I would accept it better if everyone was affected, but that would also go against the things I spent 21 of my best years defending; The Constitution. That is why I feel that State/City Jailers should be the defending line when it comes to individuals and the Feds should handle the groups (workers and businesses).

Oh, and yes I know about La Raza and the Reconquista movement as well as all those other things you mention. But I also know about the Black Panthers, the KKK, the "Good Ole Boys" in the South and the websites that publish videos and pamphlets on what to do when stopped by police for solicitation/prostitution; What is your Point?? Originally Posted by Sensei

Jeez, talk about denial. The only reason you feel 'thrown under the bus' is because you don't have a legitimate counter argument. So if you want something to be done, what is that something? Go back and read my original post.

More personal info: This past weekend my business provided a support to a party of 200 Hispanics (mainly MX-AMs). My crew of ten is mostly MX-AMs. I was the only person in the place with sparkling blue eyes. Of course, everything is done in cash. Spoke with a couple of my folks, they have no solution. Of course they don't want to be stopped by the police because they have warrants and hydro in the car. Nothing to do with 'Driving While Brown.' Yeah, they laughed off the racism aspect as a false reason. Yeah, a Latino cop was going to pull them over, they were going to forget how to speak English and end up in MX the next day.

You need to be honest with yourself and you'll understand my point. You may not know this, but we elected a President that is half-black.

Your eyes must be brown. Originally Posted by TheDaliLama

Not from genetics, but from his own shi.....

Not from genetics, but from his own shi..... Originally Posted by gnadfly

No way! The dreaded ojos de caca? Damn, that's the final critical stage before he goes full blivet. Stand back, y'all, this could get messy.

Jeez, talk about denial. The only reason you feel 'thrown under the bus' is because you don't have a legitimate counter argument. So if you want something to be done, what is that something? Go back and read my original post.

More personal info: This past weekend my business provided a support to a party of 200 Hispanics (mainly MX-AMs). My crew of ten is mostly MX-AMs. I was the only person in the place with sparkling blue eyes. Of course, everything is done in cash. Spoke with a couple of my folks, they have no solution. Of course they don't want to be stopped by the police because they have warrants and hydro in the car. Nothing to do with 'Driving While Brown.' Yeah, they laughed off the racism aspect as a false reason. Yeah, a Latino cop was going to pull them over, they were going to forget how to speak English and end up in MX the next day.

You need to be honest with yourself and you'll understand my point. You may not know this, but we elected a President that is half-black. Originally Posted by gnadfly

I read your post quite well, even quoted it. Your POV will not be changed by my words, this I know. But to matter-of-fact lump any group together by what you perceive to be a majority is just wrong. Since you seem to want to give your bona fides in every post, here are mine: I AM Hispanic of Mexican origin. I was actually born over there of a Texan mother so have both a Mexican birth certificate and American Naturalization. I served 21 years in the Army and have worked with many nationalities of both their Military and ours. And again I state that my position on what I feel needs to be done; States and Cities can handle individuals once someone gets in to the system (not while being pulled over), the Feds need to secure the border and deal with employers that hire illegals. Heck if I became the first brown president I would move all the military bases to the borders (yea all borders) and hold live fire exercises as often as possible ("Tell 'em about the gun line, boss."). so how about YOU go back and read MY post and you will see I have all that you require of a counter argument.

Oh and since you want to throw Obama into the mix I did do my homework some time ago before I voted, he is NOT half black (and I didn't vote for him). He is at most 1/4 black since his father was half black and half Arab. You may find this interesting though:http://www.diversityinc.com/content/1757/article/1461/

Not from genetics, but from his own shi..... Originally Posted by gnadfly

I see I'm getting to someone....light weight.
What's funny I work in the Memorial Area and see the hispanic nannies at the bus stops and just chuckle too how many rich white kids are being brought into the latin culture.
The plan is working'
They can't even take care of there own kids...how sad.