Social Security reform

  • Tiny
  • 04-28-2024, 09:46 AM
How about raising the cap, say to say $1 million, and start collecting SS on unearned income. Originally Posted by Jackie S
If you’re going to have to make social security contributions through the end of the year instead of just until June then you deserve something back in return. I’m not saying you should get a 3 for 1 return after inflation on your additional payments like some have received. But you deserve something. Unfortunately this is a shell game run by the government so that probably wouldn’t happen.
This is a fluff piece for Democratic Senator Sheldon Whitehouse's proposed social security bill. I hate that sanctimonious, lying son of a bitch more than you hate Trump.

Social security should function like a defined contribution pension plan IMHO. But that's never going to happen, because there's no appetite to transition away from the current system. So the alternative as you say is shoring up what we've got. The best way IMHO is to increase employer and employee contributions for everyone.

Whitehouse caters here to the Democratic Party's fantasy that we can build a social welfare state if the rich just pay their fair share. And Biden has promised not to increase taxes on anyone making over $400,000 a year. So he's proposing to increase taxes on any taxpayer making over $400,000 a year by 13.6 percentage points and allocate that to social security.

Now, in politician-speak, that probably really means taxes go up for any individual making over $200,000, and married couples making over $400,000.

I'm reading this will raise about $250 billion a year. That would indeed put a sizeable dent in the gap between social security's promised benefits and income -- Kathleen Romig in her CBPP fluff piece says the gap is 1.3% of GDP, or about $370 billion a year.

After the TCJA tax cuts sunset, the maximum marginal federal rate will be 43.4%. Add 13.6% onto that, and you're at a 57% federal rate. Add to the 13.3% marginal state income tax rate in California, and some taxpayers will be paying at 70% rates under the Whitehouse Plan.

Furthermore, Whitehouse's bill will apply to capital gains. Maximum rates on long term capital gains will go from the current range of 23.8% to 37.1%, depending on the particular state, to 37.4%, in states like Texas with no state income tax, and up to 50.7% in California.

The Congressional Budget Office in evaluating legislation has historically assumed the revenue maximizing capital gains rate is about 28%. So government revenues from capital gains taxes levied on taxpayers making more than $400,000 will actually go down with Whitehouse's bill. When capital gains taxes are too high, people aren't as inclined to sell appreciated property, so government revenues from the tax are less.

And that's going to happen to a lesser extent with other types of income as well. Taxpayers making over $400,000 a year will realize less income than they would otherwise, and thus probably make Whitehouse's estimates of revenue look optimistic.

So, in summary, using assumptions that may be optimistic, $250 billion would be raised from this tax, which would go a decent way towards closing a $370 billion income gap for social security.

But what about all the other spending? Our annual deficits are running $1.7 trillion a year. Based on headline numbers, the politicians came up with $5 trillion in new spending in 2021 and 2022 from legislation like the American Rescue Plan, Inflation Reduction Act, CHIPS bill, Infrastructure Bill, etc. And we're going to see more of that in the future.

The Democrats need to give up on their fantasy that upper income taxpayers can pay for everybody's retirement, medical care, education, etc., because they can't. They don't have enough money. If they're going to create a social welfare state in America, they have to raise taxes, and social security contributions, on everybody, or alternately take the country down the same path as some South American and African banana republics. Originally Posted by Tiny
The relevant factor about taxing the wealthy and simply having them pay their fair share. Certainly they cannot support the entire countries expenses but, corporate income tax certainly can. And should. They are the planet raping entities. Along with the wealthy.

Providing free breakfast and lunch to every school kid in America, along with #UniversalHealthcare are certainly not social governance problems. Universal healthcare it would be for her cheaper and provide far greater result in what we have now. 453 BILLION on Medicaid and Medicare alone serving only 140 million people.

Hey quality healthcare policy would cost 300 BILLION. Including optical, mental, and dental.
Also containing a mandate of awarding the employee the total of the Cadillac tax expenditures on the part of the employer. Shareholders have no difference and the employee he has a gain in discretionary income

Spend all necessary efforts to create an absolutely free market allowing the patient to choose the best provider and best price. All providers are any place, anywhere anytime.

Propose health and wellness as opposed to sickness and dying.
For instance, talk about leverage over big Pharma!!!

I could continue but,……. Pearls and pigs I’m afraid
Social security best practice policy would be to remove the camp untaxed income and apply it to SS receipt.

I’m positive Joe Biden doesn’t need the four grand a month he collects.
Social security best practice policy is remove cap on taxed income and apply it to SS receipt.

I’m positive Joe Biden doesn’t need the four grand a month he collects.
GRanted. An accurate statement.


The point is: In the past, only folks who had worked asnd paid in to SS could get benefits. Now, there are several cstagories of people getting benafits who have never paid in to SS. Originally Posted by ICU 812
Under the correct policy, that total is statistically insignificant.
  • Tiny
  • 04-29-2024, 08:30 PM
The relevant factor about taxing the wealthy and simply having them pay their fair share. Certainly they cannot support the entire countries expenses but, corporate income tax certainly can. And should. They are the planet raping entities. Along with the wealthy.

Providing free breakfast and lunch to every school kid in America, along with #UniversalHealthcare are certainly not social governance problems. Universal healthcare it would be for her cheaper and provide far greater result in what we have now. 453 BILLION on Medicaid and Medicare alone serving only 140 million people.

Hey quality healthcare policy would cost 300 BILLION. Including optical, mental, and dental.
Also containing a mandate of awarding the employee the total of the Cadillac tax expenditures on the part of the employer. Shareholders have no difference and the employee he has a gain in discretionary income

Spend all necessary efforts to create an absolutely free market allowing the patient to choose the best provider and best price. All providers are any place, anywhere anytime.

Propose health and wellness as opposed to sickness and dying.
For instance, talk about leverage over big Pharma!!!


I could continue but,……. Pearls and pigs I’m afraid Originally Posted by Daneskold1
I actually largely agree with the gist of what you're saying. Your cost estimates are way off. And free lunches should only be provided to kids whose parents can't afford them. And you're wrong about corporations and the wealthy.

Our health care system costs way too much, especially considering outcomes are better in places like Costa Rica. There indeed is no free market in health care. I agree with your idea of a system where the employer and employee pay for health care and through HSA's or whatever you inject competition into the system. Also Universal Health Care makes sense, implemented in a way that's administratively more efficient than what we've got now and allows the free market to operate.

This is off topic though so better about to talk about it someplace else if you want to continue.

Social security best practice policy is remove cap on taxed income and apply it to SS receipt. Originally Posted by Daneskold1
I strongly disagree

Under the correct policy, that total is statistically insignificant. Originally Posted by Daneskold1
I suspect you're wrong