Presidential Rankings

  • Tiny
  • 02-21-2024, 09:39 AM
Huh? What choice did he have? The South seceded, was that Lincoln's fault? He preserved the Union. Yeah, the cost was enormous, but if you apply the same logic then FDR was an awful President for navigating us through a global conflict in which 418,000 Americans died.

WD is obviously trolling us by ranking Lincoln last. Don't take the bait. Originally Posted by lustylad
Why should I do your work? Those posts are all in these hallowed icky forums.
But to humor myself ill repost what I believe.
Fdr created the welfare state. Also he created big govt. That big govt was from the new deal. Again creating dependents on govt. His mishandling of Japan's rising power. He failed in getting America's military ready and entered ww2 damn near too late!
Now for the traitor lincoln. He failed to keep the US together. He wanted that war with the south. He drove the south to secede. He was a complete failure at all levels and domestic and foreign. Lincoln was a true liberal to the core. Yes he was republican. But the parties switched beliefs beginning in the fifties thru early 80s. So he wasn't really what we call a republican today. His crimes against his own people are unarguable. He is the most over rated politician in our history. Historians fail to teach the truth about Lincoln. He personally gave the orders to his generals in 63 to start burning towns in the south and destroy crops and farms. Lincoln was an arsonist treasonous murderer.
That's just getting started on that evil Lincoln. Lincoln is the worst president ever. Trumpf is second worst then fdr. Polk Jefferson grant and Jackson round out my worst list.
Ohh and do a little reading about lincoln and his wife not sleeping together! And why! Originally Posted by winn dixie
I may know more about energy policy in the Carter administration than anybody here, but you two can run circles around me in presidential history.

Peace and prosperity are the two goals I’d like our leaders to pay the most attention to. By those criteria, Lincoln and FDR were abysmal failures. But how much of that was their fault? Would the Civil War and American participation in World War II have happened, with them or without them?

IF he’d had the power to do it, what if Lincoln hadn’t shoveled soldiers into Fort Sumter? What if he’d made a push to bring the south back into the union peacefully, say by buying off slaveowners and lowering tariffs on manufactured goods? Would he have been successful? Would northern politicians and the public have allowed it?

Or what if the south had been allowed to secede? How would have things panned out? Would slavery have disappeared from the South in fairly short order anyway? Or would it have dragged on for another 25 years, like it did in Cuba and Brazil? Would the South today be more of an agrarian society and poorer than it is today? Or without reconstruction would it be wealthier? How about race relations and the economic position of blacks versus whites in the South. Would that be better or worse?

I could pose similar questions about FDR, and would be genuinely interested in anything LustyLad in particular, given his background in economics, has to say about the plusses and minuses of the New Deal and the shift towards Keynesianism that occurred under FDR.

This is above my paygrade gentlemen. I have no problem denigrating Biden and Trump, for very different reasons, but have no idea how to rank Lincoln and FDR.
VitaMan's Avatar
Grant funeral procession estimated to be 7 miles long.
2 term President.
On the $ 50 bill.



  • Tiny
  • 02-24-2024, 06:15 PM
Grant funeral procession estimated to be 7 miles long.
2 term President.
On the $ 50 bill.



Originally Posted by VitaMan
And your point is? Trump hasn't died yet, but more people showed up at his 2016 inauguration than any in history. Lots more than Obama's. And, when you add back all the stolen ballots, he got more votes than any presidential candidate in history in 2016. Then one-upped that in 2020!

Grant's presidency is ranked low by some historians. I have no idea why.
VitaMan's Avatar
Two of Grant's pallbearers were Confederate generals.
Are you getting the point ?
  • Tiny
  • 02-24-2024, 06:23 PM
Two of Grant's pallbearers were Confederate generals.


Are you getting the point ? Originally Posted by VitaMan
I imagine those generals thought he was a SOB during the Civil War, especially after Sherman began his march of destruction through Georgia and the Carolinas. But at war's end, he was magnanimous. He allowed Confederate soldiers to return to their homes, keeping their mounts. And officers were allowed to keep their sidearms. He ordered his men to give them food.

https://www.battlefields.org/learn/p...lee-appomattox

I believe his reputation as a general was superior to his reputation as a president. But as I said before, I'm no expert on this.
winn dixie's Avatar
Grant won by gerrymandering and vote suppression. His Presidency was mired in corruption and scandals. He was a known drunk. He did not transition well to civilian life and the Presidency. He was known to appoint friends to positions they weren't qualified for. But above all this grant was a war criminal.
winn dixie's Avatar
Two of Grant's pallbearers were Confederate generals.
Are you getting the point ? Originally Posted by VitaMan
Either they served with him at some point, knew him or had business dealings with him.
That war pitted brother v brother neighbor v neighbor. Moot point.
VitaMan's Avatar
This is the second Civil War president you have besmirched.



Obviously you are a southerner, and not objective.
VitaMan's Avatar
And your point is? Trump hasn't died yet, but more people showed up at his 2016 inauguration than any in history. Lots more than Obama's. And, when you add back all the stolen ballots, he got more votes than any presidential candidate in history in 2016. Then one-upped that in 2020!

Grant's presidency is ranked low by some historians. I have no idea why. Originally Posted by Tiny

How many will show up at Trump's funeral ? And who will be his pallbearers, if enough can be found.


Trump's biggest achievement as President is to be the 3rd heaviest.....and even that is probably a lie.
VitaMan's Avatar
Trump flying to North Korea to kiss the enemies ass.
Not exactly Grant.
The reason he did it ? He thought he had a chance to get a Nobel Peace prize.




winn dixie's Avatar
This is the second Civil War president you have besmirched.



Obviously you are a southerner, and not objective. Originally Posted by VitaMan

I know my presidential history. My research has led to my opinion. Would you like to debate Polk or Jackson being terrible presidents? Or why adams was hated yet he was the most important founding father that got the declaration done? A northerner from massachusetts who I rank in my top 3 ! Teddy from New York is a northerner from NY is another top 3 of mine. And Reagan my favorite was from Illinois. A northern state as well. Hmmmmmmmnn
VitaMan's Avatar
Declaring 2 Presidents to be war criminals and treasonous is a bit much. You can have your different rankings and opinion, that is fine. Some time researching the Civil War era and all its different elements may be of use to you.

The 7 mile funeral procession for Grant shows a far different story.
The Lincoln memorial shows a different story.

Treasonous.......?


Funeral processions are not given for traitors Memorials are not built for traitors.


Treasonous...?
  • Tiny
  • 02-24-2024, 07:55 PM
Some time researching the Civil War era and all its different elements may be of use to you. Originally Posted by VitaMan
That's a little like someone asking you to research options, or Lusty Lad or Texas Contrarian to research economics before commenting. Winn Dixie knows as much about the Civi War as anyone here.

Grant won by gerrymandering and vote suppression. His Presidency was mired in corruption and scandals. He was a known drunk. He did not transition well to civilian life and the Presidency. He was known to appoint friends to positions they weren't qualified for. But above all this grant was a war criminal. Originally Posted by winn dixie
Scandals of the Ulysses S. Grant Administration

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scanda...administration

After taking a look at that link it's hard to rank Grant highly as a president. I understand that many though consider him one of the greatest generals of all time.

Winn Dixie, One of my grandparents was from Georgia and I bet one or both of her grandfathers and possibly her father served in the Civil War. She hated Sherman.

My question, did Grant order or tell his subordinates to order the killings of civilians or POW's? My impression is that Sherman and others intentionally wiped out farms and businesses and houses and the like, but not the civilians. But I don't know.
winn dixie's Avatar
No doubt grant was a decent general when sober.
lustylad's Avatar
Here are a couple of factoids you might not know about Ulysses Grant:

1. He is buried in Grant's tomb. (sorry, I couldn't resist.)

2. He was diagnosed with throat cancer late in life. He would have died penniless, but he dictated his memoirs to Mark Twain before he passed. The book was a huge best-seller, and the proceeds from it kept his wife and family out of penury.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/histo...rant-1882227/#