5 Star Hotel Pricey Photographer

I am racking up a ton of points with my hotel chain, aren't I. Originally Posted by SR Only

No...you are just teasing the fuc out of them!

I think that one issue is that the customers do not feel that they have the economic power to insist on owning the copyright.

If a number of ladies, especially those that are already established, insisted on owning the pictures taken, I think it might change the entire dynamics of the business. At the very least, they would be setting a standard and an example, as well as protecting their image and brand.

They might also want to make sure that they own the copyright on their website and that they own their domain name.

Perhaps it would be best by moving slowly, ie, starting with new photographs, sliding in a copyright statement into the text (if there isnt one already), having a backup design ready that they own, etc.

Tyler your new pics and website are beautiful, I hope you get everything resolved smoothly.

And Meeshee, you are definitly a class act! Kudos to you hun.

xoxo Sophie

And give us a rough idea of the fee schedule for such services????

I say this is as someone who has dealt with a bunch of contract law attorneys on a variety of matters and they dont do "a bit of research" for free* and if they are any good not cheap. I'm not saying don't call your lawyer up and have a 15 minute conversation. I'm saying this is a $2500 photo shoot...

And, will you acknowledge if she is interested in the "other damages" you mention, she is not likely to recieve $dollar one for a lengthy period of time?

*I'm working under the assumption that she does not have an existing relationship with an attorney in this area that, based upon past (or anticipated future) business will do some upfront work. Originally Posted by atlcomedy

If a person has an existing relationship, as you mention, my guess is that there will be no charge, or a nominal charge (depending on the type of firm) for a brief consultation.

If not, most small firms/solo would not charge for a consultation and would probably quote a flat price for the research and a letter or two, especially if you use a younger lawyer (who quite frankly will be better on the research). My guess is $500 - 750 or so, if you pick carefully. Of course, if you go to King & Spaulding, it will be $5,000 or more.

And yes, to get any damages out of the photographer, especially since she seems to be a fly by night, will involve substantial wait (and will likely be unsuccessful if they are fleeing the business).

If the gal goes to a Plaintiff's firm, she will either get some brief advice and little else, or someone may actually try to help her to make a friend and probably charge her nothing if the work consumes less than two hours, which I suspect it will. That's what would happen at my firm, although that may be less common in larger cities where folks you do favors far are less likely to be on juries. (But I'll bet if a young, hungry PI lawyer helped this gal, she would be very grateful and refer everybody she me who was hurt to him for the next several years. That's how many a practice has been built.)

I sincerely hope that everything will turn out alright for you Tylor.

My latest photoshoot was set up in an hotel, so what you are going through could have happened to me or to any lady who used a hotel room as a background. In my case I am the one who picked the hotel so if they contact me and demand that my pictures be taken down I will have no one else to blame but myself. Next time I'll have to think of a different location, but that will complicate things.

They might also want to make sure that they own the copyright on their website and that they own their domain name. Originally Posted by newalhobbyist

...and make sure they are the only ones who have the passwords to their domain names and web hosting spaces. As with photographers one should check that a web person can be trusted.

Why is it so hard to act professionally like an honest businessperson when offering services to the escort community??

I have done several shoots with Meeshee and she is my photographer of choice. Her professionalism and attention to detail are the best. I have to vouch for her in this scenario. If Meeshee says she will do it, consider it done! And you WILL be happy with the results! Not only is she a GREAT photog but a wonderful woman as well. I always say, run, don't walk to Meeshee!
Feel free to check out my site for some wonderful examples of her work. (And this is not ad for me, but a testimonial for Meeshee!)
I hope this all works out for all parties involved.
Thanks

Even in that case, she owns my images. To my surprise, I discovered that she uses one of my images from our earliest shoot for her advertisements in a local magazine. Awww shucks. I'm flattered. Good thing I don't use that one on my site LOL. (I'm a face blurrer.)

Another time, the man who photographed me as a civvie (again, same story as above) charged me almost $1000 extra to own the rights to my images. Originally Posted by LynetteMarie

I agree with newalhobbyist, the ladies should own or some say in how the photographer can use the images. Lynette's experience is a prime example. Her photographer must have had Lynette sign a release and used the shots for "stock photography". You might have to pay a bit more, but it's worth it.

First, thank you Sophie and Scarlett for your kind words. I am truly flattered.

It seems that interpreting copyright law is vague at best. I guess that’s why copyright attorneys make so much money. Lol.

But I do concur with Ed and Elsey. A photographer, or any other business person for that matter, should always act in an ethical, courteous and respectful manner. Ladies, always – and I mean always – read a contract. Get your copy. If there is no contract, run, don’t walk. If you don't like or understand any of the terms, don’t be shy and ask. There must always be a clear understanding between client and photographer.

Eve thank you so much for taking the time to post.

It is extremely important for the lady to understand that these photos are being used in an illegal enterprise. With that consideration all bets are off at least as far the hotel is concerned.
Originally Posted by Eve Hennessey

Quick point of contention, escorting is not an illegal enterprise. If it were, sites like this and Eros would not be allowed to exist.

Thank you for the other information you included. I think many are learning a great deal from this experience, and it has brought up some great points for all to consider.

Cheers!

xoMegan

I happened to look at the website of one of the ladies posting on this thread (I wont embarrass her by revealing which one) and was surprised to note that the backgrounds in her pictures looked remarkably similar to Tylor's -- maybe not the same hotel, but I'd bet money on it being the same chain. (I've stayed in enough of their properties to recognize "the look").

I wonder if part of Tylor's problem with this chain was that it was the local hotel where the pics were taken. If the pics had been taken in SFO, would the ATL people recognize them. Would SFO people see an ATL ad? Of course, you also have to wonder who at the local hotel was scoping out Eros and why.

You paid someone for photos of youf, but the photographer has the copyright and you didn't even get a license for the money you paid? What kind of deal is that? That makes no sense to me. Why would that be the arrangement? What did you pay for?

Absent that bizarre contract, you should have a claim against the photographer is she has not secured the appropriate permission from the hotel for you to use the pics you paid for. Given the description you gave, however, God only knows what the situation is. You definitely need to talk to a lawyer. Originally Posted by TexTushHog

Unfortunately, there's a dark side even to "legitimate" professional photographers.

The tradition in the professional photography realm is that you may pay the photographer to do photography work, and you get a limited number of prints and you must pay the photographer for each and every reprint.

It's very common for a photographer these days to sell his services to someone and tell them he'll charge them $xxx for a photoshoot. He may give them a complicated legal form to sign, that, unfortunately, many people will NOT read. Or he may show up at their wedding and, just before the ceremony, give the couple a form to sign when they're too busy to read it, or too late to do anything about it if they don't like the terms of the contract. They may not have made any plans to have family or friends take pictures. "Oh, don't bother, we hired a professional photographer."

There may not be any signed contract at all. The belief in the professional photography industry is that the photographer owns everything and you have no rights at all, even though you paid him to take the photos.

The photographer takes the pictures, does his work, and THEN the client finds out they can't use the pictures on their web site. They can't e-mail the pictures to friends and family. They may find out that they now have to cough up additional cash if they want to get any copies at all of their wedding photos.

The prices charged are often "blackmail" prices. Lots of the photographers know that the clients don't understand what they're going to be charged, but he will have the client over a barrel at that point. He's got the only copies of the wedding photos.

Ladies, if you had sexy pictures taken, whether for escorting, or even just pictures for your boyfriend, you may find that the photographer legally owns the pictures. He can publish them later and embarrass you. He may sell them to a supermarket tabloid when you become rich and famous. He may even photoshop the photos before he sells them to the tabloid. You signed the release form that allows him to do this.

Ladies (and gentlemen), if you pay a photographer for a photoshoot, you are an IDIOT unless you get a contract beforehand that gives you complete ownership and copyright of any photos you buy from the photographer. You must be sure that the photographer agrees he has NO rights at all to the pictures other than to sell them to you. Agree on a price.

You may tend to believe that your photographer is an honest person and they won't try to take advantage of you. That's fine. If he's not trying to take advantage of you, he won't object to assigning you all rights to the photographs, will he? If he's not planning to put you over a barrel, why won't he agree to give you the rights to the photos you paid for?

If you want to use him to make nice, professional prints of the images you paid for, that's fine. There's no reason for him to force you to give him exclusive rights to the pictures.

Yes, there are honest photographers who do NOT try to deceive their clients. There are those who put "standard" restrictions on the rights of the photographs they take, and make sure the clients make a fully informed decision to work that way.

Unfortunately, a significant percentage of the photographers out there are financial predators who are trying to trick their clients into a blackmail situation.

I think you're an idiot if you pay a photographer for a photography session and don't get all the rights to the image yourself. Never sign a standard release.

I think you're an idiot if you pay a photographer for a photography session and don't get all the rights to the image yourself. Never sign a standard release. Originally Posted by GneissGuy

This has been a learning experience for many of us. I sure as hell wouldn't consider us idiots though. But hey, you have a right to your opinion.

I had a logo designed for my venture while I do not own the copyright to the logo I do have the right to use the logo as I see fit. That is not to say that if I was using the logo for devil worship or something equally disgusting then the graphic designer has the right to stop me from damaging his or her reputation by using said design. The same holds true for these photos.
Originally Posted by Eve Hennessey

That is the reason why I have never had an issue with a photographer owning the copyright to my photos.I understand that it is there to protect their reputation.Lets say I were to hire a well known photographer who is famous for his tasteful nudes.If I took one of the photos, and photo shopped it to look like I was doing a threesome with farm animals he would be able to legally stop me before the photo destroyed his reputation.

The problem with Rachel, and Tylor has little to do with copyright laws, and more to do with the fact that Tylor spent her money for photos that are now useless , because her photographer made a mistake.

Customor sevice is so important especially if your entire business is based on your reputation.Even if she felt she did absolutely nothing wrong it just makes far more sense to loose a small amount now instead of a much larger amount over time. I am starting to think that the only person out there who does not agree that Tylor is owed a full refund, or reshoot is Rachel Stephans

My guess here is that the photog in question doesn't really care if she has business from this sector of the population. Originally Posted by Eve Hennessey

I think you are absolutely right. I worked with Rachel nearly a year ago . and even then I had the feeling that we were no longer her desired clients.

If Rachel no longer wishes to work with escorts that is certainly her right, but to send out a mass email nameing one person as the entire reason why she can no longer work with us was very unprofessional , and an obvious attempt to make Tylor a few enemies.

I will not be too surprised when Rachel Stephans runs out of house wives to shoot that she will decide to announce her unretirement from escorts. That is ok, Rachel truly can take a pretty picture , but so can Meeshee , as well as some other talented photographers , and they actually enjoy working with us.

My Dear Girl I sincerely hope that you do not really believe this. Originally Posted by Eve Hennessey

LMAO

Eve , don't you know that the disclaimer stating that ''I do nothing illegal'', is all encompassing ! Keeping not only the police but all bad juju ever invented away from any lady of the night? If only Al Capone would have known! He's dressed in drag and slept under a red light.