Adios Fidel

then you are saying post Castros, you want Cuba to remain a communist nation?
Why would you oppose more democracy and open markets in Cuba post Castro??

you sound like a libtard commie Old-Wheezer
Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

Always count on you to demonstrate that you cannot actually read. Did I say I want them to remain communist? Why no, I didn't. I said I hoped they would not try to clone the US form of government/economy/living. There are many things in between--or just different ways to instantiate a free society.

Cuba is not the US, the Cuban history and situation is not the US'. To copy something because it works one place different from your circumstances is not always the best approach.

Try actually reading and thinking before you leap to stupid conclusions next time.

[SIZE="4"][COLOR="Black"]If Raul and Che had been given free rein, more people would have been slaughtered, Old-THUMPER. Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Not a very well substantiated "fact" on your part. I do suspect--mostly from Cuban friends who were part of Castro's revolution--that you are correct about Che. Several people I trust who were there said Che was a total fanatic and philosophical zealot. Yes, I do believe he would have killed far more.

I am less convinced about Raul--again, this from people who knew both quite well on the way up. They are the ones who consistently paint Raul and Fidel as two sides of the same coin--the relative good cop/bad cop of the leadership. I have no evidence that Raul's atrocities were not done with the complete knowledge and approval of Fidel, and often choreographed that way.

Not a very well substantiated "fact" on your part. I do suspect--mostly from Cuban friends who were part of Castro's revolution--that you are correct about Che. Several people I trust who were there said Che was a total fanatic and philosophical zealot. Yes, I do believe he would have killed far more.

I am less convinced about Raul--again, this from people who knew both quite well on the way up. They are the ones who consistently paint Raul and Fidel as two sides of the same coin--the relative good cop/bad cop of the leadership. I have no evidence that Raul's atrocities were not done with the complete knowledge and approval of Fidel, and often choreographed that way. Originally Posted by Old-T

Per Solomon, it was Fidel that throttled Raul's urge to purge, Old-THUMPER.

Per Solomon, it was Fidel that throttled Raul's urge to purge, Old-THUMPER. Originally Posted by I B Hankering

And your sources are, of course, always all-knowing.

Others disagree with Solomon, and they say a different aspect of the brothers. But in your typical closed minded style you only accept points of view that agree with your own. So typical of your self-righteous pontificating. And of course your reference isn't per chance slightly biased on his views of Castro? No. Not at all. (Gag.)

I do not know how much time he spent with either Fidel or Raul, but I am quite sure he say things as Fidel wanted him to see.

And out of curiosity, since we both agree that Fidel & Raul are both not-nice fellows, do you have any reason to blindly pound the table and claim that Fidel was the Nice-Brother, other than to somehow show that you are more knowledgeable than I am? You really are fixated on somehow convincing the world (or at least this web site) that you are vastly superior to me in every way. Sad that that is how you get your self esteem.

And your sources are, of course, always all-knowing.

Others disagree with Solomon, and they say a different aspect of the brothers. But in your typical closed minded style you only accept points of view that agree with your own. So typical of your self-righteous pontificating. And of course your reference isn't per chance slightly biased on his views of Castro? No. Not at all. (Gag.)

I do not know how much time he spent with either Fidel or Raul, but I am quite sure he say things as Fidel wanted him to see.

And out of curiosity, since we both agree that Fidel & Raul are both not-nice fellows, do you have any reason to blindly pound the table and claim that Fidel was the Nice-Brother, other than to somehow show that you are more knowledgeable than I am? You really are fixated on somehow convincing the world (or at least this web site) that you are vastly superior to me in every way. Sad that that is how you get your self esteem. Originally Posted by Old-T

No one is arguing that Fidel was 'nice', Old-THUMPER, and it's quite disingenuous for you to proffer such a fallacious straw man argument. Solomon aptly documented how Raul preceded Fidel into communist beliefs, and Soloman recounted the many occasions that Fidel redressed his brother for excesses that weren’t advancing Fidel’s agenda – including executions, Old-THUMPER. Simply put, Solomon's historical narrative makes it clear that Raul was for killing many more people than Fidel would allow. BTW, Old-THUMPER, it was your supercilious ass that first contradicted what I had posted -- a post based on books like Solomon's.

Always count on you to demonstrate that you cannot actually read. Did I say I want them to remain communist? Why no, I didn't. I said I hoped they would not try to clone the US form of government/economy/living. There are many things in between--or just different ways to instantiate a free society.

Cuba is not the US, the Cuban history and situation is not the US'. To copy something because it works one place different from your circumstances is not always the best approach.

Try actually reading and thinking before you leap to stupid conclusions next time.



. Originally Posted by Old-T

leave it to you to post an ambiguous, vague post about Cuba's future. post something worth reading Old-Wheezer .. then maybe i'll read it



you are a ZERO, Old-Wheezer

No one is arguing that Fidel was 'nice', Old-THUMPER, and it's quite disingenuous for you to proffer such a fallacious straw man argument. Solomon aptly documented how Raul preceded Fidel into communist beliefs, and Soloman recounted the many occasions that Fidel redressed his brother for excesses that weren’t advancing Fidel’s agenda – including executions, Old-THUMPER. Simply put, Solomon's historical narrative makes it clear that Raul was for killing many more people than Fidel would allow. BTW, Old-THUMPER, it was your supercilious ass that first contradicted what I had posted -- a post based on books like Solomon's. Originally Posted by I B Hankering

You are more paranoid than normal tonight.

I agreed with you on Che, and as far as Raul, all I said was "I am not convinced". Far from a scathing disagreement. I posted it without name calling or insults, but you can't really handle civility so you immediately started the name calling--when I was basicly agreeing with you!

leave it to you to post an ambiguous, vague post about Cuba's future. post something worth reading Old-Wheezer .. then maybe i'll read it



you are a ZERO, Old-Wheezer Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

Don't strain your brain cell on my acount, Wacko. My feelings won't be hurt to know you don't read my posts.

But out of curiosity--who reads them to you, since you feel compelled to reply to them?

You are more paranoid than normal tonight.

I agreed with you on Che, and as far as Raul, all I said was "I am not convinced". Far from a scathing disagreement. I posted it without name calling or insults, but you can't really handle civility so you immediately started the name calling--when I was basicly agreeing with you! Originally Posted by Old-T

Here is just one of several such incidents where Solomon recounts how Raul's excessive murderous tendencies transgressed his brother's will:

Fidel “Castro told his advisors that Cuba had to stop the executions and the ‘infiltrado’, communist infiltration. There had been a scene at the March M-26-7 convention [1959] when several members asked for an immediate halt to all executions. Raul Castro attacked them. Fidel issued an order for them to cease. Later it turned out that Raul had permitted a couple of executions after the order…” (p.107).

Don't strain your brain cell on my acount, Wacko. My feelings won't be hurt to know you don't read my posts.

But out of curiosity--who reads them to you, since you feel compelled to reply to them? Originally Posted by Old-T

i've never strained my brain on your account. you don't the game for it

Old-T, saying Fidel is not as bad as Kim Il Sun, is like saying at least you're smarter than LittleFredo. You've set the bar very, very low.

The reference was primarily to Kim Jong-Un. And yes, Castro was more sane that KJU, and yes, in the world of evil dictators KJU is likely in a lower level of hell.

Here is just one of several such incidents where Solomon recounts how Raul's excessive murderous tendencies transgressed his brother's will: Originally Posted by I B Hankering

I'm somewhat surprised that Obaminable apologists would strain a revision of history in order to justify "playing nice" with Cuba as long as Raul (or anyone like him) is at the helm.

So he is now "JV"?

What seems equally surprising is his "good standing" with the Pope!

Does he get Papal dispensation for killing adults, as well as babies?

“What a strange world we live in...Said Alice to the Queen of hearts”

― Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

It fits!

"To say you won’t respect the result of the election, that is a direct threat to our democracy.” Hillary Clinton

Where did our Cuban expert Big Louie go?

The reference was primarily to Kim Jong-Un. And yes, Castro was more sane that KJU, and yes, in the world of evil dictators KJU is likely in a lower level of hell. Originally Posted by Old-T

I meant Kim Jong Un. I can't keep those names straight.

Every Cuban I've ever known who hated Castro had some story to tell about how Fidel was horrible and stole their families land/business/property but never thought for a second about the other 99% of the peasants living on nothing. Fidel was a horrible, murderous dictator, no doubt, but Batista was no great hero of anything except the politically connected rich people who stole everything they could get, also.

Cuba is as fucked up as any third world dictatorship, and always will be, though I hope prostitution will thrive there, of course. Originally Posted by DSK

Well if prostitution were to " thrive " there, you can bet that Slick Willy would be on one of the first planes over there ! All those hoogars and cigars ! And if he were to see one in a BLUE dress ? !!! Look out !!!!
And EKIM and assup would be looking to start a gloryhole franchise over there ! And introduce the Cuban people to the form of " therapy " and introduce them to dingleberries !