UNION GREED...CHICAGO STYLE...

Ok, let's assume (as you say) teachers can't find seasonal summer work at equivalent pay. Let's assume they don't work at all during the summer. They still enjoy a much sweeter deal than a normal private sector job paying the same salary. That's the point to be made here. Which is more attractive:

1. Job paying $77k a year with 4 weeks of paid vacation.

2. Job paying $77k a year with 12 weeks of paid vacation.

Now you're comparing apples to apples and you can see the difference without arguing over how to adjust/annualize the pay.

. Originally Posted by lustylad

As noted previously, the $77K figure IS NOT A STARTING SALARY. IT IS A PENSION. The ONLY SALARY mentioned in the article is the AVERAGE at $71K.

Let me get this straight! We are now bitching and moaning about paying the college/university educated teacher's of our children and grandchildren a comfortable and meaningful living wage! Do you guys actually believe they are not worthy enough to comfortably provide for their family's?

Geez, what will the Idiot's think of next to bitch and moan about!

Let me get this straight! We are now bitching and moaning about paying the college/university educated teacher's of our children and grandchildren a comfortable and meaningful living wage! Do you guys actually believe they are not worthy enough to comfortably provide for their family's?

Geez, what will the Idiot's think of next to bitch and moan about! Originally Posted by bigtex

I don't know what school district you were educated in, but your English grammar teacher was clearly overpaid, judging by the piss-poor results in your case.

As noted previously, the $77K figure IS NOT A STARTING SALARY. IT IS A PENSION. The ONLY SALARY mentioned in the article is the AVERAGE at $71K. Originally Posted by chefnerd

So what? Makes no difference. Change the numbers and my point is still valid. A job with 12 weeks' paid vacation is more attractive to employees (and more expensive to employers) than a job at the same salary with only 4 weeks' paid vacation.

No, you're not. And that's the point. They are also responsible for continuing education and certification requirements. Originally Posted by WombRaider

Ok, asshole. Show me the data where the average teacher spends 2 months a year (the difference in paid vacation time) on "continuing education and certification requirements". Otherwise find another phony argument or STFU.

So what? Makes no difference. Change the numbers and my point is still valid. A job with 12 weeks' paid vacation is more attractive to employees (and more expensive to employers) than a job at the same salary with only 4 weeks' paid vacation. Originally Posted by lustylad

Obviously you do not the meaning of the word pension. It means you are retired and no longer working. Therefore it is not a salary associated with a job. But then I guess you probably think that a $500k MINIMUM salary for a professional athlete to play a game for say 7 months is an underpayment.

Ok, asshole. Show me the data where the average teacher spends 2 months a year (the difference in paid vacation time) on "continuing education and certification requirements". Otherwise find another phony argument or STFU. Originally Posted by lustylad

You shut the fuck up and find the evidence that says they don't, you fucking dirty-ass bumfucker. If teaching is so great, why isn't the motherfucking profession overrun with applicants? Hmmmm. Answer me that, you smartass dickhole. You think you got all the answers, but what you're really holding is a pile of shit. You don't know your ass from a hole in the ground.

Obviously you do not the meaning of the word pension. It means you are retired and no longer working. Therefore it is not a salary associated with a job. But then I guess you probably think that a $500k MINIMUM salary for a professional athlete to play a game for say 7 months is an underpayment. Originally Posted by chefnerd

Don't try to bring logic into it. He's one of the dumbest jizzmonkeys on this board. He'd argue with a fucking blowup doll if he though he could get a BJ afterwards. People want to complain, say education sucks, etc., but then when it comes to teacher pay, hell fuck no, they don't want to pay and they say they make too much as it is. Fucking morons.

Ok, let's assume (as you say) teachers can't find seasonal summer work at equivalent pay. Let's assume they don't work at all during the summer. They still enjoy a much sweeter deal than a normal private sector job paying the same salary. That's the point to be made here. Which is more attractive:

1. Job paying $77k a year with 4 weeks of paid vacation.

2. Job paying $77k a year with 12 weeks of paid vacation.

Now you're comparing apples to apples and you can see the difference without arguing over how to adjust/annualize the pay. Originally Posted by lustylad

Your NEW argument may or may not be accurate.

But it is NOT the same one that Whirlagay made. He was trying to say it was equivalent to a $116K per year salary, which it clearly is NOT.

But at least your argument is focused instead on time off aspects rather than actual compensation.

Your NEW argument may or may not be accurate.

But it is NOT the same one that Whirlagay made. He was trying to say it was equivalent to a $116K per year salary, which it clearly is NOT.

But at least your argument is focused instead on time off aspects rather than actual compensation. Originally Posted by ExNYer

Except for the fact that it focused on a retired person rather than someone currently working.

Ok, asshole. Show me the data where the average teacher spends 2 months a year (the difference in paid vacation time) on "continuing education and certification requirements". Otherwise find another phony argument or STFU. Originally Posted by lustylad

Dude, it is not a phony argument.

Teachers don't leave the school the same day in late May that the students leave and return the same day as the students 12 weeks later in late August.

I don't know all the things that teachers have to do, but during the summer break the teachers have to work on new lesson plans (especially when state requirements change), meet with the school administrators for evaluations/ratings, take whatever new courses and training are required, etc.

They may not work full time for those 12 weeks, but they work at least part time for at least part of those 12 weeks.

Dude, it is not a phony argument.

Teachers don't leave the school the same day in late May that the students leave and return the same day as the students 12 weeks later in late August.

I don't know all the things that teachers have to do, but during the summer break the teachers have to work on new lesson plans (especially when state requirements change), meet with the school administrators for evaluations/ratings, take whatever new courses and training are required, etc.

They may not work full time for those 12 weeks, but they work at least part time for at least part of those 12 weeks. Originally Posted by ExNYer

I have several good friends who are teachers. They definitely don't have 3 months off to do nothing. They stay two weeks after the students leave, at least. And they start back a couple weeks before the students get back. He has no fucking clue. He's arguing about something that he has no basis of knowledge for. He's ok with cutting teachers off at the knees, but CEOs making $50K an hour is no problem. Fucking hypocrite.

Except for the fact that it focused on a retired person rather than someone currently working. Originally Posted by chefnerd

No, dude, give it up .You're getting bogged down on the salary vs. pension numbers.

Whether it is $71K or $77K salary, the essential point is that Whirlagay was trying to extrapolate it into a much larger salary ($116K) due to the summer vacation.

A truly knucklehead argument.

Obviously you do not the meaning of the word pension. It means you are retired and no longer working. Therefore it is not a salary associated with a job. But then I guess you probably think that a $500k MINIMUM salary for a professional athlete to play a game for say 7 months is an underpayment. Originally Posted by chefnerd

Unbelievable. Of course I know what the fuck a pension is. Most pensions for public teachers are far more generous than what is typical in the private sector, but that's a completely separate issue (as ExNYer noted). I merely said if you take any fucking SALARY number and plug it in, my point is valid.

And btw, I personally think most pro athletes are extremely overpaid, but they aren't sucking on the taxpayers' teat and I'm not being forced to pay for it.

Unbelievable. Of course I know what the fuck a pension is. Most pensions for public teachers are far more generous than what is typical in the private sector, but that's a completely separate issue (as ExNYer noted). I merely said if you take any fucking SALARY number and plug it in, my point is valid.

And btw, I personally think most pro athletes are extremely overpaid, but they aren't sucking on the taxpayers' teat and I'm not being forced to pay for it. Originally Posted by lustylad

So you feel that teachers are 'sucking' on the taxpayer tit? You have no interest in contributing to the future of our country? How about the roads? You hate paying for that too? Mail service to your fucking door? Garbage pickup? Like we know where every dollar goes anyway.

Don't pay taxes. Protest. See how your beloved IRS acts then.