Expectations of your date?? (Male & female)

Naomi I would like it but I wouldn't be fool enough to think you would go home and the memory of it would effect your evening. I would enjoy it for what it was. A kiss. If I want true emotion I know I will only get that in the real world. I know these guys are probably nice guys but the reality of it is it's a business and if we perceive it that way we will enjoy it for what it is and not for something it's not. If someone can't get that from the real world then I guess I understand.

Just call me a fool then. I will believe it when you have those connections and sparks and the girl doesn't want any cash because she is so moved. Like i said. Ain't gonna happen Originally Posted by burkalini

Why do you find it so hard to believe that what you say "Ain't gonna happen", actually does happen? Numerous people tell you they have 1st hand knowledge but you continue to essentailly say we are all liers or delusional.

I want to ask you........

When was the last time a woman, here in this adult hobby. Told you, YOU made her feel desirable & beautiful in your presence, under your touch, long before the fucking took place?
When's the last time a woman, here in this adult hobby. Told YOU she truly enjoyed YOU?

don't even bring up the whole money thing........... Just focus on my question and think back to the women you've met.

When did you truly enjoy being with a woman, here. Who truly enjoyed YOU?? Who wanted to kiss you (NO not so she can get emotionally attached) but because she wanted to taste your lips. Because she wanted to undress your body through her lips and your kiss tell her what type of lover you are, w/o words.


I ask, because I sense that you kissed a woman at some point, and you felt something. And perhaps were hurt in some way. And hence now you reject it and view it as an emotional attachment.
I may be wrong in my assumption. If so. I apologize.

There are men who truly enjoy women, from their beautiful opinionated minds to their imperfect body, to the core of their soul and what makes them, them. Those men enjoy a woman's kiss, but those men know how to keep a lock on their emotions. Yes, sometimes that lock becomes loose and those feelings are shown, and perhaps reciprocated.
A kiss can tell so much about a person and the type of lover they are.

Naomi I would like it but I wouldn't be fool enough to think you would go home and the memory of it would effect your evening. I would enjoy it for what it was. A kiss. If I want true emotion I know I will only get that in the real world. I know these guys are probably nice guys but the reality of it is it's a business and if we perceive it that way we will enjoy it for what it is and not for something it's not. If someone can't get that from the real world then I guess I understand. Originally Posted by burkalini

Just call me a fool then. I will believe it when you have those connections and sparks and the girl doesn't want any cash because she is so moved. Like i said. Ain't gonna happen Originally Posted by burkalini

Sure it does, Burk. You either don't want it to, or haven't met the right ones yet.
You are simply wrong about the "ain't gonna happen".

Just call me a fool then. I will believe it when you have those connections and sparks and the girl doesn't want any cash because she is so moved. Like i said. Ain't gonna happen Originally Posted by burkalini

No one’s a fool for having beliefs that work for them. Everyone has their reasons or routines and using life experiences we adjust or allow variations at times. For me it’s always a very informative discussion when others share their opinions and beliefs on any topics. Everyone does what works for them at this time of their lives. I know that what works today sometimes has changed over the years or become more programmed in the mind as well and people are creatures of habit. Some people do not want surprises, want any activity they do to be more planned, detailed and carried out. The cash agreement for time with a woman is a given within the hobby, it is one of the first things people look at and have knowledge of prior to contacting for a date.
For me, making the cash donation is the one distinguishing act that separates the hobby from my personal real world. Not that it ever would happen but if she is so moved that she does not want to accept it then it looks like the maid is getting a tip that day because once I put it on the table it stays…. That’s what works for me and how I can separate myself. Being able to separate the two allows me to completely open up my emotions, open my mind and truly enjoy my experience with a woman. Seriously when you put the time and effort to meet someone and if you are given the opportunity to spend time with a beautiful woman I am not sure why anyone would not want to indulge themselves to the fullest and enjoy everything about the woman she has to offer and give her the opportunity to enjoy you as well. I’m going to make every effort possible so that I can enjoy some Love, joy, being surprised, happiness, pleasure, affection, excitement, passion, intimacy, and hopefully by the time my date is nearing an end I’ll be relaxed, calm and content……. Some may think that this thinking is way too deep; crossing the line you should not cross within the hobby. That's ok, do what works for you.
I tend to push my limits and move the so called normal lines in my own businesses. I subconsciously make lines for myself that works for me and allows me to reach my end goals that don’t match everyone else’s line. Same goes within the hobby; as long as I know what the line is for me then I tend to want to enjoy both sides of it. If I make a bad decision in business or if I have poor judgment in a woman of the hobby it’s not the end of the world. You close that door and look for the next door to open, with all your emotions with you each time you open the door.

Why do you find it so hard to believe that what you say "Ain't gonna happen", actually does happen? Numerous people tell you they have 1st hand knowledge but you continue to essentailly say we are all liers or delusional. Originally Posted by Old-T

If you exchange money in advance of or after a companionship or sexual meeting you are separating the meeting from a true connective one to a business one. I'm not trying to be little anyone here or say they should do anything different but stating my opinion. You can have the best time possible when you are together but when you are alone and ask yourself is this real or contracted the fact that you paid them will always be there.
I agree it's enjoyable or I wouldn't do it myself but I have learned not to let it replace a real experience away from the hobby. If you want to have those feelings remain on a constant basis it's only going to come from an equal circumstance and that's one where economics don't control the situation. Go have fun, have great sex,enjoy the company but don't ever think they are truly real because they are not.

Totally understand what you are saying and works for you.

As the old commercial for Memorex autio/visual tapes said:
Is it Live? Or is it Memorex? (showing my age here)
For me, it just does not matter and I would never need to ask the question of myself is it real or contracted. She is still in fact an actual Woman and in fact is a very real person in life. Would the same events we share BCD happen with the woman I met at the bar? At the market? at a social gathering? Surly not.. But it doesn't mean I can't find it here as well. If it is what I want to have or make happen BCD.

Naomi I would like it but I wouldn't be fool enough to think you would go home and the memory of it would effect your evening. I would enjoy it for what it was. A kiss. If I want true emotion I know I will only get that in the real world. I know these guys are probably nice guys but the reality of it is it's a business and if we perceive it that way we will enjoy it for what it is and not for something it's not. If someone can't get that from the real world then I guess I understand. Originally Posted by burkalini

As for the true emotion? While I have not ever had the privilege of a passionate kiss from Naomi or been touched by the softness of her lovely legs, I can say with 100% certainty when and if I did receive that kiss, when I am being touched by her impeccable body, start undressing and then realize I am rock hard, hot and lustfully Horney for her, what do you think caused that? Well that happened as a result of basic emotions we all have… The primary emotion we all have in us known as Love is where we get the feelings of lust and sexual desire. In turn you then feel the arousal, desire, passion that physically brings the urge for sex/intercourse. That’s just the way it is, the way we were created. While one can categorize Love in many, many, ways you cannot in good conscious say that there is no true emotion involved in that moment. It is the emotion that creates the desire you are having.
I know what the real world is. What I want from it and what I get out of it.
What do I want, wish for or expect to happen from a hobby meeting with a woman?
For myself it is more than likely not the same as most.
Give me sexual intercourse, and pleasure, not just sex.
Give me your physical body as well as your intimate thoughts, desires and passion.
Give me complete sexual pleasure, release and gratification and allow me to do the same for you, teach me, guide me, and show me what releases the woman within you.
Give me an orgasm first, an ejaculation second. (There is a difference even for men)
Allow me to make love to you and enjoy myself for the time we have pre-arranged for.
Allow yourself to close your eyes, and believe in fantasy, try and enjoy what I want to offer you.

Oh, and one very important thing. Remind me to take my little pill! Otherwise I'm afraid our entire time together will have to be all about YOU.

If you exchange money in advance of or after a companionship or sexual meeting you are separating the meeting from a true connective one to a business one. I'm not trying to be little anyone here or say they should do anything different but stating my opinion. You can have the best time possible when you are together but when you are alone and ask yourself is this real or contracted the fact that you paid them will always be there.
I agree it's enjoyable or I wouldn't do it myself but I have learned not to let it replace a real experience away from the hobby. If you want to have those feelings remain on a constant basis it's only going to come from an equal circumstance and that's one where economics don't control the situation. Go have fun, have great sex,enjoy the company but don't ever think they are truly real because they are not. Originally Posted by burkalini

I really do think you are missing the point(s).

Most of us really do understand the difference between reality and illusion. And we know that most the encounters are illusion to some degree, but the good ones for many of us are more than that—and the inclusion of money is not the defining ingredient.

Let me tell you two real stories that have over a decade of ongoing history.

One lady I would see very, very often. We did a wide variety of things, and fairly quickly discovered we had common interests outside of this business. Our first meeting on each of my trips to her city was always paid for. She would always ask how long I was in town for, I’d tell her, and she would often suggest dinner later in the week. These dinners were always off the clock, and varied with what we felt like doing: sometimes a home cooked meal, other times dinner out, often a movie or some other thing we found in the paper. Sometimes it led to sex that evening, often not. I’ve been to her home, met her parents, she’s been to visit me and we’ve introduced each other to some of our friends. How would you describe that evolved relationship? All illusion or a mix of business and reality? I know it is her income and I am not about to deprive a lady I care about very much but am not in love with of her income.

Another lady I met long ago. As with the first the relationship has evolved, and without getting into needless details she is now going back to school full time, raising two kids with no help from the father, and working a little UTR to keep from a mountain of debt when she graduates. She refuses to take any money when she comes over to see me when I’m in her city, though she will often spend the night. I know each evening she spends with me is at a loss of income to her, and she’s not in a position to afford that—so I started paying a large chunk of her tuition. Is it more or less than I would have paid “normally”? I’ve never compared because it is not important to me. Are we in love? No, but we sure enjoy each other physically and otherwise. Since I don’t pay her an hourly rate does that make it more “real” than if I did? Since we have real feelings for each other should I stop helping her financially just because she never asked for it (and actually was upset when she found out I was paying the tuition)?

I will argue that many, many of the ladies in this business are not financially well off. I’d readily wager the majority have young kids to support, are single moms, and have often been ostracized by their families. So should I pay those who truly are an illusion of feelings and NOT help out those where there are real feelings?

No, money or its absence is NOT the dividing line between “illusion” and “reality”. To each his own—if you prefer to keep it all illusion, fine. If the money is what allows you to keep the separation in your mind, great. I do wish you could understand that some of us can cross that barrier with a few special ladies (who is “special” varies from guy to guy and situation to situation), help them financially, not fall hopelessly in love with them, and have REAL feelings of companionship, lust, caring, etc.

Old-T,

You are pissin' in the wind. Some people lock onto a point of view and refuse to acknowledge that (a) they are wrong, or (b) there is another side to the issue. Burk's one of those guys.

Burk has a condescending view of those who find emotional connections in the hobby because he assumes that they cannot do that in "real life". You won't convince him otherwise, and he won't convince you to change your view, so why burden the thread with repetitious arguments?

I appreciate your comments Old-T. Thank you for sharing this as no one is trying to change anyones views only express theirs to those who want to listen and learn. I care a lot about the women that have allowed me the opportunity to meet them and truly have/would do anything I could for them if they needed it. I personally am very guilty of put my guard up at this time by feeling I was somewhat taken advantage of when I cared in the past. Your experience is very refreshing to hear. You become better though over time knowing how deal with this in your own way and still meet wonderful people.

Thanks again

Old-T,

You are pissin' in the wind. Some people lock onto a point of view and refuse to acknowledge that (a) they are wrong, or (b) there is another side to the issue. Burk's one of those guys.

Burk has a condescending view of those who find emotional connections in the hobby because he assumes that they cannot do that in "real life". You won't convince him otherwise, and he won't convince you to change your view, so why burden the thread with repetitious arguments? Originally Posted by awl4knot

Old-T let me know when you and your ATF are moving in together or getting married. Let me know when she wants you to meet her children. Let me know when you meet her parents. Your right in the fact that I do lock onto reality. I did say It's only my opinion. I never said you can't find it in real life. I did say that IF you can't then I understand . If your getting what you need out of it then good. Just don't piss on my neck of the woods because I may of hit a nerve with you

Burk - go back and read Giz's comment. I think he and his ATF live together and a fellow dawg in NOLA lives with his ATF, and they both hobby. It's called being "open minded!"

As for me, I'm looking for a girlfriend that I can keep for an hour and maybe go back and visit for old times sake. I just met a provider, one of the MOST beautiful girls I've EVER seen in my life (in or out of bed) - but we didn't click so good, even though she had two Os and I got one (but it was flat!), I want more than to just get my rocks off - I want that connection, only for an hour!

Burk - go back and read Giz's comment. I think he and his ATF live together and a fellow dawg in NOLA lives with his ATF, and they both hobby. It's called being "open minded!" Originally Posted by Louigi

If they live together then she's not charging him to fuck her. If she is then all I can I can say is WTF?

Self-removed. This post is no longer necessary.