FWIW, just watched the local NYC news and National and they said there had been nary a protest or opt-out. I had a feeling people just wanted to get the hell where they were going. The day before Thanksgiving is NOT the day for a full bore protest.
As I have posted before, I just want to get where I need to go. I have been used to the secondary *review* so I just don't care. Get the airplane, wheels up, on time and don't crash the thing (pilots are on that same page, too). Happy turkey day!
- Guest083011
- 11-24-2010, 06:03 PM
- TexTushHog
- 11-24-2010, 07:57 PM
If you think the TSA is a dysfunctional mess now, just wait and see what happens when it unionizes!Yeah, heaven forbid that they have the same rights as everybody else. All you fuckers are for rights when it's your rights, but when it's somebody else's rights, suddenly you're not so big on equal protection of the laws.
The Federal Labor Relations Authority just ruled that TSA employees should be able to join a union with full collective bargaining rights.
Imagine what might happen if every little tiny change in procedures has to meet with the approval of union bosses. This story is not likely to have a happy ending. Originally Posted by CaptainMidnight
PJ hit the nail on the head when he said that every system has some flaws. We have to accept that we cannot fully protect ourselves from terrorism. It's just like crime in that respect. If someone wants to commit a burglary badly enough, he'll find a house somewhere that has a vulnerability. If he want to kill someone, he'll get his chance sometime.
The attitude that this is a "war" and that "victory" is possible is asinine. It's a fact of life to be managed. It's not going to work for an elected official to honestly admit this, but it's true. And the sooner we come to realize this, the sooner we can adjust our expectations and have a realistic discussion on what precautions make sense and are consistent with our values, and which ones don't make sense and violate our values.
- I B Hankering
- 11-24-2010, 08:10 PM
The attitude that this is a "war" and that "victory" is possible is asinine. It's a fact of life to be managed. It's not going to work for an elected official to honestly admit this, but it's true. And the sooner we come to realize this, the sooner we can adjust our expectations and have a realistic discussion on what precautions make sense and are consistent with our values, and which ones don't make sense and violate our values. Originally Posted by TexTushHogThat’s the same thing I said at #16 above. We agree.
- Guest091314
- 11-24-2010, 10:30 PM
Ill opt for the extra pat down, I dont like the idea of a screen that shows me naked, is that strange? lol
- abdclub
- 11-25-2010, 01:09 AM
Alecia, yes it is! Now just send all of your naked pictures to me and I'll make sure to send them to TSA whenever you fly!! LOL
abdclub
abdclub
- atlcomedy
- 11-25-2010, 03:08 AM
I don't see what the big deal is. I've been in airports with the new screeners a couple of times this month without incident to myself or anyone near me in line.
Originally Posted by atlcomedy
As I said before, not sure what the big deal is other than for the vast minority that want to get their 15 minutes of fame or get blog/youtube hits...I bet 90% of the people bitching about this haven't flown this month...
http://www.ajc.com/business/no-crowd...rs-753064.html
At the busiest (or 2nd, it and O'Hare go back & forth) airport in the U.S., on the busiest air travel day of the year, in Atlanta a whopping 3 protesters, and 26 people refused the body scan (roughly 1/10th of 1 percent of travelers) in favor of the pat down....
[As a side note, the story was filed midafternoon, but if anything had materially changed in the evening I'm sure it would have been updated]
- TexTushHog
- 11-25-2010, 03:38 AM
An excellent article on one of the downsides of the "Israeli system".
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/pos...do_we_rea.html
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/pos...do_we_rea.html
- TexTushHog
- 11-25-2010, 06:03 AM
Two good articles on the subject:
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2010/11/...ecurity-system
http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/20...-tsa-anti-rant
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2010/11/...ecurity-system
http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/20...-tsa-anti-rant
- Texas Contrarian
- 11-25-2010, 06:32 AM
Yeah, heaven forbid that they have the same rights as everybody else. All you fuckers are for rights when it's your rights, but when it's somebody else's rights, suddenly you're not so big on equal protection of the laws. Originally Posted by TexTushHogYeah, that's it!
Let's let a corrupt, dysfunctional public sector union make it even more difficult to get rid of TSA employees who turn out to be incompetent morons. That sure would enhance airline safety, wouldn't it?
- atlcomedy
- 11-25-2010, 07:08 AM
Yeah, heaven forbid that they have the same rights as everybody else. All you fuckers are for rights when it's your rights, but when it's somebody else's rights, suddenly you're not so big on equal protection of the laws.
. Originally Posted by TexTushHog
Yeah, that's it!I just kinda chuckled & thought it was TTH's attempt at sarcasm 'cause if there was ever the epitome of pot calling kettle black this is it....
Let's let a corrupt, dysfunctional public sector union make it even more difficult to get rid of TSA employees who turn out to be incompetent morons. That sure would enhance airline safety, wouldn't it? Originally Posted by CaptainMidnight
- charlestudor2005
- 11-25-2010, 08:10 AM
An excellent article on one of the downsides of the "Israeli system".
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/pos...do_we_rea.html Originally Posted by TexTushHog
Two good articles on the subject:Interesting observations. But, as the last author stated, it is all security theater. If TSA were really interested in protecting us from suicide bombers, they'd be doing body cavity searches (or at least doing them randomly).
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2010/11/...ecurity-system
http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/20...-tsa-anti-rant Originally Posted by TexTushHog
Health Issue: BTW, on a similar subject, if you are subjected to the pat down search, demand that the TSA person change rubber gloves. It has been reported that TSA personnel don't change gloves in between searches, which exposes you to the bacteria/germs/infections picked up by the TSA worker in previous pat downs. And there is skin contact in the pat downs, so it is something to worry about.
- discreetgent
- 11-30-2010, 11:33 PM
More absurdity
The Downside of Traveling With Stylish Jewelry
MY sister Jodie and I are always traveling for work. As jewelry designers, we need to go to a lot of shows. We can’t pack lightly and usually bring about four suitcases filled with our work.
Most of our stuff is made from heavy materials and metals. So part of the routine for us when we fly is getting stopped by security. Our jewelry sets off the alarms, and we’ve become accustomed to arriving early to go through private screenings. Most of the time, it’s not a hassle. We’ve got it down to a science and know how to unpack and repack our bags with little effort, even though I’m the worst packer ever.
On our recent trip to a Paris trade show, we were stopped at security and asked to empty our bags. I didn’t really think twice about it. But somehow, this experience seemed a little different. One of the agents walked over to another agent and they started whispering to each other. Both gentlemen came back, and one of them then told us that it seemed that we were carrying a very dangerous object.
My sister and I just said, “Huh?” Of course, we were a little concerned, thinking that maybe someone stuck something in one of our bags when we weren’t looking.
One of the agents then started to unpack our bags. Though our jewelry is sturdy, he was a little rough with the stuff. I kept asking what he was looking for and then the object in question finally appeared. It was our Cosima necklace. It’s a really bold piece of jewelry, with large, metal triangular spikes.
My sister and I looked at each other and breathed a huge sigh of relief. We started laughing and explained to the two male agents that it was just a necklace from our collection, not a weapon of mass destruction. I even modeled it.
They didn’t think we were funny. And they thought we were lying. The agents couldn’t believe someone would wear it, and one agent kept repeating that he believed it was a weapon. He even tried to prick his finger on one of the spikes. He told us the piece was going to be confiscated. At this point, we were frantic.
I tried to explain that we were jewelry designers going to a trade show, and this was simply a piece from our collection. I tried to put up a convincing argument, and so did my sister. But the agents weren’t buying it. The next thing I know a few other guards came over and started to try and take apart some of our pieces. My sister and I were freaking out.
But then a few women guards came over to assist. One of the women started digging through our bags. She started to pull out pieces and was showing those pieces to her female colleagues. I kid you not. One of the women guards was holding an earring up to her ear and another was trying on a ring. Apparently, they liked our stuff.
It was only at this point that the male guards gave up. I think they realized that our necklace probably wasn’t a weapon. And I think they also got tired of listening to a bunch of women talk about jewelry. They let us through.
We took the names of the women agents and sent them a piece of jewelry when we got back to say thanks.
We didn’t send anything to the male agents, though, since I still think that a few of them believe that our necklace is a lot more deadly than it is stylish.
By Danielle Snyder, as told to Joan Raymond. E-mail: joan.raymond@nytimes.com
The Downside of Traveling With Stylish Jewelry
MY sister Jodie and I are always traveling for work. As jewelry designers, we need to go to a lot of shows. We can’t pack lightly and usually bring about four suitcases filled with our work.
Most of our stuff is made from heavy materials and metals. So part of the routine for us when we fly is getting stopped by security. Our jewelry sets off the alarms, and we’ve become accustomed to arriving early to go through private screenings. Most of the time, it’s not a hassle. We’ve got it down to a science and know how to unpack and repack our bags with little effort, even though I’m the worst packer ever.
On our recent trip to a Paris trade show, we were stopped at security and asked to empty our bags. I didn’t really think twice about it. But somehow, this experience seemed a little different. One of the agents walked over to another agent and they started whispering to each other. Both gentlemen came back, and one of them then told us that it seemed that we were carrying a very dangerous object.
My sister and I just said, “Huh?” Of course, we were a little concerned, thinking that maybe someone stuck something in one of our bags when we weren’t looking.
One of the agents then started to unpack our bags. Though our jewelry is sturdy, he was a little rough with the stuff. I kept asking what he was looking for and then the object in question finally appeared. It was our Cosima necklace. It’s a really bold piece of jewelry, with large, metal triangular spikes.
My sister and I looked at each other and breathed a huge sigh of relief. We started laughing and explained to the two male agents that it was just a necklace from our collection, not a weapon of mass destruction. I even modeled it.
They didn’t think we were funny. And they thought we were lying. The agents couldn’t believe someone would wear it, and one agent kept repeating that he believed it was a weapon. He even tried to prick his finger on one of the spikes. He told us the piece was going to be confiscated. At this point, we were frantic.
I tried to explain that we were jewelry designers going to a trade show, and this was simply a piece from our collection. I tried to put up a convincing argument, and so did my sister. But the agents weren’t buying it. The next thing I know a few other guards came over and started to try and take apart some of our pieces. My sister and I were freaking out.
But then a few women guards came over to assist. One of the women started digging through our bags. She started to pull out pieces and was showing those pieces to her female colleagues. I kid you not. One of the women guards was holding an earring up to her ear and another was trying on a ring. Apparently, they liked our stuff.
It was only at this point that the male guards gave up. I think they realized that our necklace probably wasn’t a weapon. And I think they also got tired of listening to a bunch of women talk about jewelry. They let us through.
We took the names of the women agents and sent them a piece of jewelry when we got back to say thanks.
We didn’t send anything to the male agents, though, since I still think that a few of them believe that our necklace is a lot more deadly than it is stylish.
By Danielle Snyder, as told to Joan Raymond. E-mail: joan.raymond@nytimes.com
- Guest083011
- 12-01-2010, 06:15 AM
Link for DG's post: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/30/business/30flier.html
- atlcomedy
- 12-01-2010, 06:48 AM
Link for DG's post: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/30/business/30flier.html Originally Posted by SR OnlyLet me play Devil's Advocate for a minute:
I'll start by saying this is why people shouldn't try to make (or advocate for) policy by annecdote. Sure she seems like a loveable, harmless woman; why not let her pass...
There are a heck of a lot of people that need to make other transport arrangements than a commercial airliner to transport essentially what amount to sales samples (for lack of a better term).
So she could bring them aboard in the past...so what? A lot of us have had to change how we travel or do business. Shouldn't The Times be embracing "change?"
As an aside, I hop I never get stuck behind this gal and her entourage of 4 bags at baggage check-in.....
- terbul
- 12-01-2010, 06:49 AM