Donald Dipshit to the Rescue

Actually, American consumers pay the tariff tax voluntarily. If you want a DVR and you attached to that one made in China that just went up 25% then knock yourself out. Or you could buy an equally good machine that was made in South Korea for less. Who's the idiot and victim here?

Actually, American consumers pay the tariff tax voluntarily. If you want a DVR and you attached to that one made in China that just went up 25% then knock yourself out. Or you could buy an equally good machine that was made in South Korea for less. Who's the idiot and victim here? Originally Posted by the_real_Barleycorn

liberals being logical

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Obama didn't create millions of jobs and Trump won't create millions of jobs either. Governments don't create anything. Governments are really nothing more than a construct of the mind. Where some people (Politicians) believe they have the moral right to rule others and those others have the moral obligation to obey them. Originally Posted by Levianon17

It's not so much about Gumment creating jobs...it about Gumment getting out of the way and letting the free economy take care of itself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IlcDvXaUCw
Gumment is the best that governs the lest. Businesses that are burdened by high tax and regs stymie growth in a Capitalist society.
All you have to do is look at many countries in Africa to see anarchy at work...you have to have laws and boundaries in order to have a peaceful society...you have a better...DO TELL!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQdyrOUMqUU

It's not so much about Gumment creating jobs...it about Gumment getting out of the way and letting the free economy take care of itself.
Gumment is the best that governs the lest. Businesses that are burdened by high tax and regs stymie growth in a Capitalist society.
All you have to do is look at many countries in Africa to see anarchy at work...you have to have laws and boundaries in order to have a peaceful society...you have a better...DO TELL!! Originally Posted by bb1961

No I don't have better. I live in America. America is too diverse and populated for Anarchy to work efficiently.

Basic manufacturing payroll is worth much more than the McDonalds Burger Fliping (sic) payroll because the payroll of manufacturing turns over much more than other types of payroll.

For example: The steel worker takes his check and spends it on food, clothing, eating out, a new car and ect. That money becomes, in part, the wages of the grocery clerk, the barber, the school teacher and etc. Got it? The wages of manufacturing turns over at least ten times, some economists say more. Each time it is taxed, and the Government makes money on the same payroll at least ten times. Originally Posted by JRLawrence

Continued:

Meanwhile, the wages paid to the Burger Flipping payroll (service jobs) turns over as little as 2 times, maybe three - and not more than four, before is (sic) disappears from the economy. That means that this type of payroll is taxed fewer times than basic industry: the economy is not as strong when we have lost our manufacturing jobs.

That is basic economics. Originally Posted by JRLawrence

???

Sorry but I DON'T get it. What are you talking about?

I know of no economic studies supporting the claim that a dollar spent by a steel worker "turns over" more than a dollar spent by a low-income wage earner. Why would it?

Please provide a link to those economists you are referring to, who say manufacturing wages "turn over at least ten times" whereas the pay of burger flippers only turns over "2 times, maybe three - and not more than four" times.

No I don't have better. I live in America. America is too diverse and populated for Anarchy to work efficiently. Originally Posted by Levianon17

Anarchy work efficiently...WTF!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQdyrOUMqUU

Outlaw Josey Wales..."Dying ain't much of a living"!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAxIqKSx9ag

Are you an Antifa member!!
You got RAMBO in ya...lock and load
You watched escape from NY to much...
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anarchy

No I don't have better. I live in America. America is too diverse and populated for Anarchy to work efficiently. Originally Posted by Levianon17

Bull Shit! Anarchy doesn't need to be efficient, it just needs to be consistent and persistent. Slow and easy, one at a time.

Just be thankful that Hillery didn't win. There are more guns than people in the USA. During the reign of King Odumbo where he kept making his proclamations about guns: the result was that ammo and guns were flying off the shelves at every gun store in America the two to three months before the election. Ammo was selling faster than it could be made. At some large gun stores, (yes I can name them) extra check out lines had to be added in the last few months before the 16 election. During that time I made a visit at one store to buy a new 22 rifle because I have wanted that particular model since I was a kid: No 22 caliber ammo was available, that was oK: I had some.

There were several extra checkout lines set up in the gun department, instead of at the front of the store. In addition, there was one line set up just for the registration and purchase of the AR-15 style rifles: That one line was selling at least 200 to over 250 AR-15 style rifles per day for the two months leading up to the 16 election. That is what several clerks told me. After the election the extra gun purchase cash registers were taken down.

Wow, I don't even like the AR-15: personally I think it is a stupid weapon. A 308, 30-06, 6.5 or a 243 would be a better choice. But, I get it: the AR-15 sells, because it has a cool look - that is why the liberals hate it. But a 243 would reach out much further with less noise, less kick, closer groups and cheaper ammo. You don't need a cannon to do the job. A 30-06 or a 308 (M-14) can center a group on an 8" bull's eye at 1000 yards with open sights. A 243 can do that, with more drop. A scope makes it easier.

With Hillery defeated, things have slowed down a lot: gun and ammo prices have dropped by an unbelievable amount. 22 ammo is now available for regular purchase. Thousands of rounds of all types of ammo were purchased just for the anticipated civil war if Hillery should have won.

You don't believe it Damdemocrat? Believe it! Thank Donald Trump for your salvation. You were saved by the 16 election.

I know you don't believe this because you have your head in the ground like an ostrich.

But believe one thing: this country is fully armed, and ready for a scattered but determined civil war. The only question is just how much it would have taken to push this situation over the edge.

An analogy: the Civil War of the 1860's was started because the final straw was the election of Lincoln. The final straw for 2016 would have been the election of Hillary.

I believe, with reasons, that if it should happen, it may start in scattered places: a few here and there. The targets will be certain corrupt politicians that have taken advantage of their positions to rob American Society. These are mostly the Democrats, but not all.

The solution, I don't know. But I do know that the Democrat party must change, or be replaced. There are a lot of pissed off people. The Democrates have stepped over the line. But, here needs to be more than one party in the government of the USA.

The thing that will help to further calm things down is the re-election of Trump and the continued appointment of Federal Judge, throughout the judicial system, that have been properly selected for their appreciation of the US Constitution.

???

Sorry but I DON'T get it. What are you talking about?

I know of no economic studies supporting the claim that a dollar spent by a steel worker "turns over" more than a dollar spent by a low-income wage earner. Why would it?

Please provide a link to those economists you are referring to, who say manufacturing wages "turn over at least ten times" whereas the pay of burger flippers only turns over "2 times, maybe three - and not more than four" times. Originally Posted by lustylad

You know of no economics studies because you have not studied economics. If you had you would not make that statement. Econ 101 doesn't count.

Taxation theory is discussed in Macro Economics, a graduate level course. You can pick up a text book and read it, not everything in life is handed to you for free. If you truly want to understand, you have to develop your own ability to think. Link? What the hell are you talking about you idiot. I studied this stuff in the 1970's with the GI bill, just because I wanted to learn. I can write this stuff quickly, because I understand it. Link? That is just damn lazy. You must try to understand, and you don't.

Manufacturing of any type, requires the support of other businesses: those support businesses also have payrolls.

Sending manufacturing business to other countries hurts the USA.

I made this as simple as I could, and some still don't get it. DUH!

China intentionally targeted the US Steel manufactures (sic) and put many out of business.

The example given about the steel manufactures (sic) is a classic example that is a fact, not an opinion and not a maybe what if. It happened in the 1970's and by the 1990's many steel mills were gone. This lession (sic) is taught in a graduate level course in economics. Micro-economics and Macro-economics were required courses for one of my graduate degrees. At the time I was working nights for the graduate degree, I was working during the day as a consultant to industrial plants. One of my customers was Armco Steel that went out of business because of this situration. (sic) Originally Posted by JRLawrence

Armco Steel didn't go out of business. It merged in a joint venture with Kawasaki Steel back in 1989 and has been known as AK Steel ever since. It is currently the 6th largest steelmaker in the country. Perhaps you are referring to a single plant closure rather than a bankruptcy.

China was not a major steel producer in the 70s, 80s or even 90s. So it could not have put US steelmakers out of business back then. China didn't even begin to open up its economy to Western capital until 1978. During the timeframe you mention, it was imports from places like Japan, Europe, Canada, South Korea and Brazil - not China - that put pressure on US producers. Plus the disappearance of many of our steel jobs was driven at least as much by new labor-saving technologies as it was by foreign competition. At many US firms, management was slow to invest in the new, more efficient equipment and techniques, so they naturally lost market share to others who were quick to embrace them even though they had lower labor rates than us. What is clear is that the amount of labor needed to churn out a ton of steel has fallen dramatically over the years. From wikipedia:

"Between 1920 and 2000, labor requirements in the industry decreased by a factor of 1,000, from more than three man-hours per metric ton to just 0.003."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_oxygen_steelmaking

I am not letting China off the hook here. I am just correcting your erroneous timeframe and pointing out there are many culprits behind the US steel industry's decline. Since 2000 when it produced 128 million tons, China has expanded its capacity by leaps and bounds. Last year it cranked out 928 million tons. This means over 85% of its capacity has been added since 2000. It is now the 800-pound gorilla in the room, accounting for more than half of global steel output. This huge over-supply keeps prices low everywhere. China now produces ten times as much steel as the US. However, most of it is being dumped in Europe and elsewhere, not here. Last year China wasn't even among the top 10 countries for US steel imports. Here is a link that analyzes the US import situation in more detail:

https://www.trade.gov/steel/countrie...imports-us.pdf

And here is a link showing world steel production by country and by year:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...eel_production

Anarchy work efficiently...WTF!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQdyrOUMqUU

Outlaw Josey Wales..."Dying ain't much of a living"!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAxIqKSx9ag

Are you an Antifa member!!
You got RAMBO in ya...lock and load
You watched escape from NY to much...
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anarchy Originally Posted by bb1961

If you're under the impression that I am for Anarchy, I am not.

An analogy: the Civil War of the 1860's was started because the final straw was the election of Lincoln. The final straw for 2016 would have been the election of Hillary. Originally Posted by JRLawrence

I disagree with you on that point regarding Hillary. the Lincoln situation has more in common with Trump situation. You saw how the left reacted in 2016 to the election of Trump?



what exactly would the fight be over with that is comparable to 1860? we don't have that burning divisive issue that can cause the country to split asunder yet.

You know of no economics studies because you have not studied economics. If you had you would not make that statement. Econ 101 doesn't count.

Taxation theory is discussed in Macro Economics, a graduate level course. You can pick up a text book and read it, not everything in life is handed to you for free. If you truly want to understand, you have to develop your own ability to think. Link? What the hell are you talking about you idiot. I studied this stuff in the 1970's with the GI bill, just because I wanted to learn. I can write this stuff quickly, because I understand it. Link? That is just damn lazy. You must try to understand, and you don't.

Manufacturing of any type, requires the support of other businesses: those support businesses also have payrolls.

Sending manufacturing business to other countries hurts the USA.

I made this as simple as I could, and some still don't get it. DUH! Originally Posted by JRLawrence

Do you have a hot poker stuck up your ass? Do you always project your own insecurities on others? Only someone who is frightfully insecure about his education insists on an anonymous hooker board that he is highly educated in a subject, when it’s evident to all from the quality of his comments that he isn’t. Where I went to school, Macroeconomics was taught as an entry level undergraduate course. Ditto for Microeconomics. Your claim that Macro and Micro are taught only in graduate school is laughably wrong. Are you sure you studied economics on the GI bill?

You made a comment:

The wages of manufacturing turns (sic) over at least ten times, some economists say more. Originally Posted by JRLawrence

You cited “some economists” - so I assumed you must have specific names and studies in mind. I asked for a link because it’s obvious you can’t articulate economic concepts on your own with any clarity or precision. The fact that you can’t even provide a source speaks volumes about your ignorance of economics. It’s easier to blow up and project your ignorance back on the questioner than it is to admit you don’t know what you’re talking about. You say you “can write this stuff quickly because I understand it.” No, you write quickly to cover up for your shallow thinking and incoherence.

If you’re trying to make some kind of point about Keynesian multipliers in manufacturing versus services, then you shouldn’t be babbling incoherently about wages and burger flipping.

You want people to defer to you as an expert on the history of the steel industry, yet you don't even know China didn't emerge as a serious producer/exporter until the late 90s.

If you were advising Armco Steel, it's no fucking wonder they wound up spinning off most of their plants into a JV with the Japs.

Do you have a hot poker stuck up your ass? Do you always project your own insecurities on others? Only someone who is frightfully insecure about his education insists on an anonymous hooker board that he is highly educated in a subject, when it’s evident to all from the quality of his comments that he isn’t. Where I went to school, Macroeconomics was taught as an entry level undergraduate course. Ditto for Microeconomics. Your claim that Macro and Micro are taught only in graduate school is laughably wrong. Are you sure you studied economics on the GI bill?

You made a comment:



You cited “some economists” - so I assumed you must have specific names and studies in mind. I asked for a link because it’s obvious you can’t articulate economic concepts on your own with any clarity or precision. The fact that you can’t even provide a source speaks volumes about your ignorance of economics. It’s easier to blow up and project your ignorance back on the questioner than it is to admit you don’t know what you’re talking about. You say you “can write this stuff quickly because I understand it.” No, you write quickly to cover up for your shallow thinking and incoherence.



If you’re trying to make some kind of point about Keynesian multipliers in manufacturing versus services, then you shouldn’t be babbling incoherently about wages and burger flipping.

You want people to defer to you as an expert on the history of the steel industry, yet you don't even know China didn't emerge as a serious producer/exporter until the late 90s.

If you were advising Armco Steel, it's no fucking wonder they wound up spinning off most of their plants into a JV with the Japs. Originally Posted by lustylad

I took Micro and Macro economics as a freshman at WVU. IJS

After today, they gonna lose - big time.
They had to have invented the term "shit for brains."
I thank God for Trump - best President ever,ever,ever.

After today, they gonna lose - big time.
They had to have invented the term "shit for brains."
I thank God for Trump - best President ever,ever,ever. Originally Posted by Austin Ellen

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA