Bush Tax Cuts- Let them Expire or Renew?

I have voted many times to raise my own taxes (sales tax referendums). I think a large majority would agree to a tax increase, if they had any confidence the money was being spent wisely to reduce debt. But there is no confidence whatsoever in congress. Originally Posted by lacrew_2000

I have never voted for a tax increase, and I never will. I have never supported a tax increase and I never will. IMHO - your inference that a large majority would agree to a tax increase makes me wonder what the color of the sky is in your world. The reason the Tea Party exists is because the large majority DO NOT WANT A TAX INCREASE!!!! They are tired of the government living outside their means and want them to stop spending what they don't have.

Let the last increment of the Bush bill expire. You owe something to your country for the opportunities to make the money that you do. Every entreprenuer thinks they did it themselves. This is never reality just ego. Originally Posted by catnipdipper

Bullshit! You don't owe the country anything that is not already mandated. You obviously have never owned a business or tried to start one. The hours it takes for a sole entreprenuer to start and run a business just to get it off the ground, much less make it profitable (i.e., make at least $0.01 more in income that you have to pay in expenses) sometimes is more than 24 hours in a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. Every entreprenuer DID do it themselves, and they are rewarded for their hard work by the government putting regulations on their business, taxing not only their profits but the income received as a salary for running their business - in many cases, it is the same thing. CND - you are nothing more than a jealous liberal who can't face the fact that there are people in the country who put in long hours of work and are successful and because of that, make more money than you do. I have nowhere near the income of some of these entreprenuers, but I strive to be as successful as they are and, one day, hope to enjoy the fruits of my labor with an improved lifestyle. I don't see the country helping me achieve that goal - I only see it attempting to suppress my ambition with taxes and regulation. The country doesn't owe me a thing - and I, in turn, don't owe the country a thing.

Instead of tax increases to pay down the national debt, how about eliminating the department of energy. You know, the department that was meant to ease our dependence on foreign oil. That would save the tax payer about $24 billion a year. Or how about eliminating the department of education. Yeah, the department that is suppose to help provide a quality education for our public school kids so they won't fall behind other countries (oops, guess they are not quite doing the job http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...120400730.html) That would save us about $52 billion a year.

So after we we eliminate those two departments we save $76 billion a year.

Then, we hold budget increases to federal agencies to the current level of inflation (though there are more programs and departments that I'd kill off).

Then we could open up the 2/3rds of the budget that is off limits because of social programs and start eliminating those that are duplicates or no longer needed and we'd save ??????

The real answer to eliminating our national debt is to not spend more than we take in in taxes. Find a tax rate that is not high and not too low to maximize the amount of taxes taken in and leave that rate alone. Put term limits in place for members of congress just like the president has. That way the people who choose to serve are serving for the short term and not looking at ways to keep themselves elected indefinitely. Because in order to keep getting elected, they have to keep bringing home the pork.

Dear Mr Fritz.

I have owned a total(including today) 4 businesses. I mean from scratch to ultimate IPO and rollup. Been an INC 500 and Ingrams 100 twice. Worked the hours and made payrolls for over 30 years. Don't even start to tell me your selfish crap about how someone does it by themselves and owes nothing to anyone.

It is a privilege to live in this country and to be able to chase a dream and be your own boss. The reality is that a lot of success is hard work, luck and timing, along with a decent product or service offered at a competitive price.

I have met a lot of people like you. I always felt that if you came from nothing(me) and you end up with some money that you needed to go to a charm school where you learned to be grateful for your success and remember how you got there.

Noveau Riche are the worst!

Don't even start to tell me your selfish crap about how someone does it by themselves and owes nothing to anyone. Originally Posted by catnipdipper

They don't owe anything to anyone, especially the government. Selfish - you bet! It's not the government's money, it's my money. If you want to send me all the $ you'd like to give back to the government, then I'll PM you my paypal account and I'll be happy to take your contribution.

The tax increases I have voted yes on are local sales tax referendums. One was to give the Chamber funds to offer incentives with. Another was to repair bridges. Another was for the school district to expand its facilities.

Every one of these:

1. was locally controlled
2. had a definite expiration date
3. had a very narrow scope on what it could be spent on
4. IMHO had a good chance of getting a 'return'. For example, my house value is predicated in large part on the quality of my school district, and expanding facilities would help my house value.

Every one of these was indeed passed by a large majority. And I think most people are willing to pay taxes, if they have confidence that the money is being spent wisely. We expect government to do certain functions, which do cost money. Even holding an election costs money for example.

So, my answer to the theoretical question about paying taxes if we were CERTAIN the money would be well spent was yes. And, my experience has always been that the majority of voters had the same attitude.

Now unfortunately that theoretical question has no basis in reality, when it comes to the federal government, unfortunately.

Mr Fritz;

I predict failure for you in the long run. You don't run a business and focus totally on a short term profit driven by greed. If you have the right stuff a profit will be a by product of your efforts.

You will fuck up as sure as the sun rises and will blame it on someone else instead of your own nature.

Crash and burn baby!

Mr Fritz;

I reread your posts again. I can only read where you are upset about paying income taxes. If you are a sole propritorship or Sub S then yes you pay taxes on the income you draw as a salary just like anyone. If your company makes a profit then yes you pay income taxes on the "dividends" that you receive as income at year end. BFD!

Of course you have expenses to pay. Telephone, car(?), marketing, rent etc but WTF that is just part of a business and if you can't control them to less than your revenues then shame on you. Some of your perks might be taxed as income but you can't just buy a car and write it off as a bogus expense.

What encumbering government regulations are you burdened with? Matching SS payments, unemployment taxes, business license, quarterly tax payments?

This is not for rookies or chicken shit faint hearts.

Man up and worship the freedom and opportunity that this country gave you to even think about it. Some places in the world with no governments might allow you to sell potatoes out of a wagon along a rutted country road.

Fritz, can you explain the whole profit thing again, I was confused? Revenues? Expenses? One cent? Please go into detail, I'm learning so much. Also, if you have some extra time, I need help with fractions? They always give me trouble. Jesus fucking Christ how can you be so naive about the Tea Party? They were NOT created because of tax increases. Federal income tax rates have been the same under Obama as under Bush. The Tea Party began in the weeks after Obama took office, not in the weeks after the stimulus package was signed under Bush.

NSA, your ideas are just plain stupid. Get rid of Education and Energy. Why don't we disband our military and outsource it to China? We could reduce our $780 billion budget by about $600 billion, what a savings. Shit, lets euthanize 75% of those receiving social security. Think of the savings. Roughly over $420 billion in savings. We can pay back the national debt real fast now. Plus with killing the old people, we can drastically save on Medicare/Medicaid, another $420 billion in savings. Hell, let's just kill Social Security and Medicare. Is it ok if your parents move in with you? They will now need a place to stay as they cannot afford their own place anymore. With that amount of savings of these similarly stupid ideas, the government could hire someone to come to your house and kick you in the balls and tell you how stupid your idea is. The question I asked was about a mixture of reducing expenditures and increases taxes, with all of the resulting monies going toward the national debt. What do you think the economic impact of a truly uneducated workforce would then be with the elimination of the Department of Education? Very insightful thinking NSA.

I would support a tax increase if it was coupled to reduction in spending. I would even support some cutting in the defense department, but not in R&D. But I think there is money to be saved in the procurement procedures and in contracting. I would support removing troops from Germany and Italy. I think there is some money to be saved in some social programs which are buracracy heavy. I think some of the money cut should go to improve programs such as Education as well implementing a program that offers free day care to single mothers and to familys which fall under a agreed upon fiscal threshold as long as the single mother or parents are working or attending school full time. Right now a single mother who would like to work cant because they make less money then they would on welfare because of the cost of day care. I think the departent of Energy is mostly ineffective and needs to be streamlined and given concrete goals and expectations. I have no problem paying more if the money is not wasted as it is currently and with the restructuring or removal of programs which are ineffective as well as implementing common sense programs that enable people to improve their positions in life.

We went from 1776 to 1976 without a Department of Education. And I don't think education has improved since then. We'd figure out a way to survive. And I think people would still go to school, even without a Department of Education. But that's just me. Never mind.

What DD said!!!!!!

Damn good!

Please, please, pretty please - lets stop personal attacks, name calling, insults, etc., with sugar on top.

They are the same thing served on a different platter. Originally Posted by lacrew_2000

Wrong. NOT the same thing. See the above chart. The difference can be counted in dollars.

JG, I'd like to see the chart of which you speak. Please post it. Until then look at how thick that orange band is going to be in the future. Place that debt squarely on the shoulders of conservatives.

Noveau Riche are the worst! Originally Posted by catnipdipper

LOL, how dare you question the sense of style and taste of the Nouveau Riche!?!