Where is the sex in BDSM?

Good Eveing Cuckold;

Speaking as a European, let me assure you that not only does sex play a part in BDSM activites here, but also BDSM plays an important role in lots of sexual encounters here.

In my humble opinion it comes down to the difference between 'Kink' and 'Kinky'; Kink being the US option, seems to be serious to the point of obsession and seems to be an end in itself and that only one party is being 'entertained'. Whilst Kinky is a essentially humorous and is almost always an adjunct to sex, most certainly NOT an end in itself, but merely a stop on the journey to mutual sexual satisfaction.

I hope that this is of some interest.
Cyclops Originally Posted by Mr.Oneeye

Thanks for responding. I wish the U.S. had more in common with views on sexuality in Europe. I am ex-miltary and spent time in Europe...sad for me it was during my vanilla years. Now I am doing my best to play catch up!!

Thanks for all of the comments, guys and gals. Even Mistress' get feelings of insecurity and need to feel validated. I was seeking these answers because I just don't get a lot of validation from the kink scene and even on Fetlife I have read the anger of the Pro-Dommes feeling like Domme's like Me are ruining their business and messing with their training.

I tell my self that those who seek what is on my menu wouldn't call them anyway and vice versa. The law of attraction says that there is enough to go around and my intellect knows that none of their angst is personal to me but really a reflection of themselves as they don't even know me. Still, it can wear on even the most emotionally healthy people, I think.

I would love more feedback, I just can't get enough of this positive attitude. Maybe we can make a movement! Sex in BDSM isn't just for the Brits! Originally Posted by TaylorMaiden29

The best way I can describe the divide between provider dommes and regular pro-dommes is that the pro-domme feels it is degrading (to her) to have sexual relations with her subs. This to me is somewhat similar that many women (and a few men) have concerning sexual relations in general - they are reserved for that special person in your life and not just anyone. There also seems to be, again with many women, a very dim view of women who sell sex. We've all seen/heard the derision that society gives to women in the sex industry. While they are apparently highly desirable, they aren't the ones you bring home to your family or take to the company party. Sex has always sold, but except for a few periods and places in history, commercial companionship has rarely enjoyed any sort of status.

I also think that when you combine the view of the sexual industry with the concepts and teachings that many pro-dommes have and use, it's like a double-whammy. Many pro-dommes can be caring and compassionate with their submissives in private, but their outward and public appearance they seem to have to toe the line or else get ostrasized from their community. I suppose its the same way men have to appear all gruff and tough to society, but can be complete push-overs at home behind closed doors. I'm relatively sure that what goes on BCD is probably slightly different than what we hear about on here!

To Taylors point about pro-dommes feeling anger towards providers encroaching in their territory, some of it has to do with the offering of things they can't/won't do in their sessions. And part of it too (at least what is shared with me from my pro-domme friends) is that they believe the focus on the sexuality portion of it takes away from the domination aspect of what they offer. And more than one has gotten upset that potential clients think all pro-dommes are just hookers too. They don't like that they have to defend their views. To an extent I sympathize with them, but on the other hand, the selling of sex has and will most likely continue for a very long time.

I do think that the session you get from a pro-domme is going to be much different than you get from a provider domme. While there are obvious exceptions to that rule, a pro-domme who has been in the business for a few years usually will have learned the skillset necessary to really get inside a submissive's head. And they've also usually collected a fair assortment of gear and contraptions with which to put the submissive in subspace. If you've never had a true pro-domme experience and you do feel you have a submissive mindset, I would highly reccomend you do some research and go find a good pro-domme to experience that. It is much more different (not saying its better or worse, just different) than what you get with someone who ties you to the bed and sits on your face. Not saying that is better or worse either! It just depends on where you are mentally as to which type of session is going to be best for you at that time.

However, if you think about the forum we are on, I do believe we are going to see the majority of people indicating a preference for the provider-type of domination.

Yes. I admit it I am greedy and want the best of both and it is rare to find it. I've seen both Pro Domme and Provider Domme but typically prefer the provider domme experience. Wanna have my cake and eat it too! I love a domme that can be harsh and objectify me and use me as a plaything but also need the reward for pleasing her! Tie me, bind me, whip me, penetrate me, make me worship every part of you. But if all that pleases you, then reward me and show me I endured your machinations to your satisfaction.

Just one subs opinion.

The best way I can describe the divide between provider dommes and regular pro-dommes is that the pro-domme feels it is degrading (to her) to have sexual relations with her subs. This to me is somewhat similar that many women (and a few men) have concerning sexual relations in general - they are reserved for that special person in your life and not just anyone. There also seems to be, again with many women, a very dim view of women who sell sex. We've all seen/heard the derision that society gives to women in the sex industry. While they are apparently highly desirable, they aren't the ones you bring home to your family or take to the company party. Sex has always sold, but except for a few periods and places in history, commercial companionship has rarely enjoyed any sort of status.

I also think that when you combine the view of the sexual industry with the concepts and teachings that many pro-dommes have and use, it's like a double-whammy. Many pro-dommes can be caring and compassionate with their submissives in private, but their outward and public appearance they seem to have to toe the line or else get ostrasized from their community. I suppose its the same way men have to appear all gruff and tough to society, but can be complete push-overs at home behind closed doors. I'm relatively sure that what goes on BCD is probably slightly different than what we hear about on here!

To Taylors point about pro-dommes feeling anger towards providers encroaching in their territory, some of it has to do with the offering of things they can't/won't do in their sessions. And part of it too (at least what is shared with me from my pro-domme friends) is that they believe the focus on the sexuality portion of it takes away from the domination aspect of what they offer. And more than one has gotten upset that potential clients think all pro-dommes are just hookers too. They don't like that they have to defend their views. To an extent I sympathize with them, but on the other hand, the selling of sex has and will most likely continue for a very long time.

I do think that the session you get from a pro-domme is going to be much different than you get from a provider domme. While there are obvious exceptions to that rule, a pro-domme who has been in the business for a few years usually will have learned the skillset necessary to really get inside a submissive's head. And they've also usually collected a fair assortment of gear and contraptions with which to put the submissive in subspace. If you've never had a true pro-domme experience and you do feel you have a submissive mindset, I would highly reccomend you do some research and go find a good pro-domme to experience that. It is much more different (not saying its better or worse, just different) than what you get with someone who ties you to the bed and sits on your face. Not saying that is better or worse either! It just depends on where you are mentally as to which type of session is going to be best for you at that time.

However, if you think about the forum we are on, I do believe we are going to see the majority of people indicating a preference for the provider-type of domination. Originally Posted by Krunkman

No and yes. I don't find sex degrading in my Domina sessions. But sex is secondary, tertiary. My job is to flip your switch. If I'm good, I can do that without explicit sexual contact. If I have to use sex to get you off, then I pretty much suck as a Domina. I will agree there is generally less sex in Domina led sessions than there are in Dom led sessions. (go figure)

My FemDomme sessions, being as they are escort related, are more sexual and are less true to my D/s training.

I don't expect or plan to incorporate sex in a Domina session. I do plan and incorporate D/s in my FemDom (escort) sessions.

My Domina sessions are more detailed, more researched, more (and less) structured, more personal, more intimate, cost more and are usually not "time based" but are more "experience" based.

It's simple: I won't go to an orgy in leather, spikes, cuffs, cross, flogger etc and I don't go to a BDSM function with condoms.

But I came from there to here, not vice versa. I don't think either side is either right or wrong or judge either side. They are just different.

Given the intense rush I get from playing the Domme role I think it is only natural that sometimes a bdsm session leads to sex. Here you have two people, Domme and sub, that are able to accept one another for their alternative interests and are getting their deepest desires met. Having said that, I can understand Babee's point of view that if you have to use sex than perhaps you are not the best Domme. I am paraphrasing here so forgive me. I have never been a big fan of labels, so I think that wherever the session ends up taking you emotionally and mentally roll with it! If that means the end result is sex sooo what. If that makes me a provider Domme and not a pro I am okay with that. When I have planned an elaborate session and I have been given the honor of total power hell yes that makes me wet. I think some of the D/s forget that without a bottom they could not top. I, like Taylor, like rewarding my sub, but it is done in a selfish manner! This raises another question. If you want that reward and you receive it does that make you less of a submissive?

If I have to use sex to get you off, then I pretty much suck as a Domina. Originally Posted by babee

But what if it's what the Mistress really wants and sex wasn't listed as a hard limit? I love the delicious shock of having a subbie come to me who isn't expecting sex and then when I want to pop him, I just cover him and climb aboard to use him as I find pleasing. All the while saying "you're just a cock to Me, nothing more than a plaything for Me to use as I see fit, like a dildo. tell Me how grateful you are to be of such use to a beautiful, Powerful Mistress like Me.
Sometimes, when I'm feeling naughty, and I know my subject well enough to cross this line, I like to say "I'm forcing you to cheat on your wife. you are a bad boy. do you like being My bad boy?" Then of course, that's my opening to spank him if that's where it needs to head.

But back on topic. Although there are many sessions that don't involve intercourse or bj's, there are those sessions that they can't pop with a prostate milking alone, am I really a bad Domme for resorting to a rub and tug to move along the process?

Sometimes, when I'm feeling naughty, and I know my subject well enough to cross this line, I like to say "I'm forcing you to cheat on your wife. you are a bad boy. do you like being My bad boy?" Then of course, that's my opening to spank him if that's where it needs to head.

But back on topic. Although there are many sessions that don't involve intercourse or bj's, there are those sessions that they can't pop with a prostate milking alone, am I really a bad Domme for resorting to a rub and tug to move along the process? Originally Posted by TaylorMaiden29

I know you were looking for Babee's opinion on this one, but, there is clearly a market for this type of service. I love both the sadistic and sensual aspect of submitting. If you really want to flip my switch, treat me like the slut that I am, milk me dry and then cover me up and ride me until I cry for mercy. I think you are awesome for incorporating it all when YOU feel it's appropriate.

on a side note, i have figured out what you get when you combine fbsm with bdsm---a kick ass massage.

I'm Old School BDSM. (Old School, English, European, whatever you wanna call it - it's traditional). I will always have that training as my core BDSM beliefs and practices.

When I'm contacted for a Domme session - it is a Domme session.

When I'm contacted for a FemDom - it's a FemDom.

One is "truer" to my BDSM training and my personal understanding of what BDSM is and one is an escort session. I may use some (or many) of the skills from one....but they are different. The client base itself is different, so the expectations are different. One is no better than the other. They are different. You can like and do both. To me- escort BDSM is more like sensual BDSM or DomLite.

I think the biggest issue ProDomme's have isn't the "prostidomme" angle. At least not for me it isn't. My issue is someone advertising or saying they are professional BDSM - and the advertiser can't present the credentials or detail the training to back that "professional" claim. There's pro and then there is Pro. I figure for every one hour of play that I do, I have +/- 30 hours training on each particular skill. Per skill, not per session. Some skills one helluva lot more (ones I particularly enjoy). That's a lot of knowledge I refuse to allow to be taken lightly. And I continue to learn and teach. And to practice. BDSM never gets old or trite for me. This being an escort board, there is an escort "take" on BDSM sessions. No problem. It is an escort board. When you go to Dominatrix or RW BDSM boards, expect the perception there to be different.

I do recognize and accept there is a difference between the two lifestyles, (like POP music and Rock Music) just as there is a crossover of the two (like POP Rock).

I'm not knocking anyone. Just saying there is no They are wrong and We are right on either side.

Very interesting discussion. I have wanted to dabble in the "BDSM" world, but I've noticed that there are a lot of niches that cater to many different aspects of activites-- some of which are too "hard core" for me. One of the first things I noticed when researching doms was the "no-sex" caveat. For me, this is simply a non-starter on several front. First off, I'm going to have a sexual release as I'm easily aroused. Secondly, the reason I want to see a provider is to have sexual contact. So for me, seeing a dom who doesn't allow sex just isn't going to work, and as you can see is frustrating to someone wanting to go beyond the vanilla provider/hobbyist relationship.

I suppose I'm looking for a provider who is more into BDSM role playing. By that I mean a provider who is willing to to restrain me and use me for her gratification, or a provider who tells me what to do to her in terms of sexual activity. Also, I'm interested in meeting a provider who is willing to be completely submissive. I'm sure there are plenty out there, but finding one is a difficult task.