Sobriety

Amateur doctors and other associated self-appointed experts in the field:

Do we really need to have this disease/addiction debate here? Perhaps we can just agree it's a problem for some and move on to other hobby-related subjects?

ztonk

If anyone is interested in understanding the current brain science research on addiction, an excellent book on the topic is: "In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts". The Hungry Ghosts of the title are an allusion to one of the ways of being in the Buddhist Wheel of Life. These people have huge stomachs but long thin necks that don't allow nourishment to pass. Originally Posted by chuckles

That's a great book. It's written by a doctor in Canada who deals with this issue a lot. Wow. Haven't thought of that book in a long time because it's still in storage. TMI.

Sorry for the thread drift.

Amateur doctors and other associated self-appointed experts in the field:

Do we really need to have this disease/addiction debate here? Perhaps we can just agree it's a problem for some and move on to other hobby-related subjects?

ztonk Originally Posted by ztonk

I'll drink to that!

That's just rude.

Regardless of the comments from the peanut gallery, there are people who really suffer from addictions. To make light of these challenges that people face shows a lack of character.

But it's alright. You can debate the idea of "character" and "integrity" with me if you wish.

I'm glad that someone is trying to not drink, or do things that are essentially harmful to themselves and others.

Such folks needs a pat on the back and positive reinforcement.

Happy Sunday everyone!!!

Sincerely,
Elisabeth

P.S. Thanks, ztonk, for your comment. You're right. I'll leave this debate at this point. Again, take care everyone!

there are people who really suffer from addictions.

Sincerely,
Elisabeth

P.S. Thanks, ztonk, for your comment. You're right. I'll leave this debate at this point. Again, take care everyone! Originally Posted by ElisabethWhispers

Thank you for putting the exclamation point on my statement Elisabeth.

In this modern day world of Political Correctness, I wonder if this is the new Communism?

Hear me out before launching into another politically correct tirade.

Censorship...over free speech...is being usurped by those intent on shouting down anyone with a differing view from the masses. This topic in point. If you don't agree and cow tow to the majority, you are systematically attacked from all angles until you shut up. {{{Which I rarely do, cause I see the PC behind the argument & like to keep the fire going-most who fall into PC Hell don't even realize they have crossed the river}}}.

I am backing away from this because a moderator intervened...but take this as a separate discussion with very little to do with sobriety, addiction, disease. Its merely that if YOU (or others) are part of the continuing PC culture...just think about it for a second. Other views-whether in jest or serious-are what once separated our culture from communism...IE MULTIPLE BELIEFS & OPINIONS RATHER THAN ONE GIANT MIND MELD.

And now let the definition police step in and say "that's not communism, its socialism...or some other scraping off the internet to prove your google works...

I love Sunday mornings too BTW, with my coffee on the deck listening to the birds in the trees bringing thought provoking & interesting conversations to the interweb chat boards...Happy Sunday to you too Lizzy!

I am backing away from this because a moderator intervened...but take this as a separate discussion with very little to do with sobriety, addiction, disease. Its merely that if YOU (or others) are part of the continuing PC culture... Originally Posted by Toyz

Both of these subjects (disease vs addiction, and PC culture) would be excellent discussion topics in that special place we call The Sandbox.

Hijacking this thread to have those discussions is not appropriate. That's all my "intervention" was intended to say.

ztonk

Both of these subjects (disease vs addiction, and PC culture) would be excellent discussion topics in that special place we call The Sandbox.

Hijacking this thread to have those discussions is not appropriate. That's all my "intervention" was intended to say.

ztonk
Originally Posted by ztonk

Points made and taken Z! Sometimes I forget the audience on this chat board. I will endeavor to stay on track with more "have you seen this BP girl" threads in the future.

(just messin', just messin')

I am big time addict,, both my parents are addicts of some sort.. I struggle every single day with my additions.. but for me I am a fully functional addict..
here are a few of my former and current addictions not in any particular order.

1. working out, was addicted to this for 20 years, good and bad things can happen ( good thing is I have an awesome body for a 46 yr old)
2. porn. this seems to come and go..haha!
3. sex. from 30 years old to 40. I had a serious sex addiction, the only thing that broke it was lack of money.. from Swingers to Hookers to whomever..
4. alochol: was not an addict but did quit drinking 13 years ago.
5. smoked cigs for 15 years.. quit 13 years ago when I quit using alcohol
6. shopping, in my mid 20's i loved to spend spend spend..
7. gambling. I love to gamble. quit about 6 years ago when the $$ ran out due to poor economy
8. FOOD!! I love to eat and and eat.. I really have to be conscious of my habits and what i eat..
9. i have one addiction left and I am not giving it up anytime soon.. I love my herbal 'tea'


I am lucky enough to know when enough is enough.. thank god I am built to not go over the deep end...

HA!
Everyone knows that herbal tea is a gateway drug!

I'm sure that you meant well by this statement however, if you haven't had any firsthand experience with the absolutely gut wrenching experience of trying to GET sober and then, staying that way (and I have a feeling that perhaps you haven't by reading what you've written), you're really over-simplying things completely.

It's not matter of feeling happy. It's a compulsion that will kill you, drive your family and loved ones crazy and well, it's a very complicated disease.

No one should think to themselves, well if I just try to be a bit more happy, maybe I won't drink so much.

Wish it were that simple. Really, I do.

So if you feel a bit miffed by others challenging what you've written, for those of us who have experienced both sides of addiction, we know of what we speak.

Take care,
Elisabeth Originally Posted by ElisabethWhispers

Actually I have extensive experience with hardcore meth addicts, coke addicts, alcoholics, molly users.....

I had one of my best friends for twenty years die in my bathtub in my apartment in San Antonio in Febuary 2013, and another friend of mine who was an addict drowned in her uncle's swimming pool in Houston on June 2 of last year.

I know these people very...very..very well, and I know they are UNABLE to experience the normal range of motivation, well-being, etc..

It is this aspect of their personality which explains HOW AND WHY they become addicted.

Addiction is an unbelievably powerful motivator and you can't simply say that it doesn't have a specific cause. There is a powerful reason why some people can't resist the use of their intoxicants while others can.

The people who become addicts are not within the normal range of their personality characteristics when it comes to their abilities to experience well being in the ways non-addicts do.

Unless you can give an explaination as to WHY addiction happens and WHAT IT IS other than simply a description of the behavior then I think you should reconsider.

It is not enough to describe a behavior to understand it's causes.

Researchers agree with my description, and a current theory gaining acceptance is that addicts are dopamine deprived in early childhood and they never are able to calibrate their dopamine experiences.

But you don't need to be a scientist to see the difference between a potential addict and all others when they first use a particular drug. When the potential addict uses the drug for the first time it's an overwelming experience which non-potential addicts fail to have...described as this...

"Wow where have YOU been all my life!"

By that they mean they never felt well being until that moment, and they won't be without it again...

I've had more than one addict describe themselves this way....

"I'm just trying to feel normal."

What addicts do is to seek to find the well-being they know they have always been lacking and SHOULD have had but could never find otherwise.

There has always been a void there...a lack of well-being, balance, peace of mind, tranquility....so they seek to substitute pure pleasure of one kind or another. With some users it's exhileration and with others it's euphoria...some seek to slow down while others must speed up..different kinds of pleasure with different causes and mechanisms.

Robin Williams was typical of this. He grew up unable to experience tranquility, well-being, etc., and when he first tried this drug or that it was overwelming for him and he couldn't stop because he was never happy before. He was always miserable. He had to learn that using his drugs would make him feel better temporarily but it wouldn't motivate him or teach him how to be less miserable in his normal life. In fact it wrecked his normal life. His story is totally typical.

I am big time addict,, both my parents are addicts of some sort.. I struggle every single day with my additions.. but for me I am a fully functional addict..
here are a few of my former and current addictions not in any particular order.

1. working out, was addicted to this for 20 years, good and bad things can happen ( good thing is I have an awesome body for a 46 yr old)
2. porn. this seems to come and go..haha!
3. sex. from 30 years old to 40. I had a serious sex addiction, the only thing that broke it was lack of money.. from Swingers to Hookers to whomever..
4. alochol: was not an addict but did quit drinking 13 years ago.
5. smoked cigs for 15 years.. quit 13 years ago when I quit using alcohol
6. shopping, in my mid 20's i loved to spend spend spend..
7. gambling. I love to gamble. quit about 6 years ago when the $$ ran out due to poor economy
8. FOOD!! I love to eat and and eat.. I really have to be conscious of my habits and what i eat..
9. i have one addiction left and I am not giving it up anytime soon.. I love my herbal 'tea'


I am lucky enough to know when enough is enough.. thank god I am built to not go over the deep end... Originally Posted by RALPHEY BOY

1) Awesome body for a 46 year old HELL YES one of my ATF's
2) porn ahh yes .. I love to make porn!
8) food love it! But Nowadays it's quinoa, brown rice, fish,chicken,oats
9) yes herbal tea I'm not giving up my love of tea either!


And I'm 100% with you on the last statement!!

I am lucky enough to know when enough is enough.. thank god I am built to not go over the deep end....

Not sure why that last line tickled me so much, but when it comes to "going over the deep end"
Girl, you are thelma AND louise!!

Not sure why that last line tickled me so much, but when it comes to "going over the deep end"
Girl, you are thelma AND louise!! Originally Posted by knotty man

Glad you are tickled and take such notice to my silence bahahaha

FWIW - This article and my post refers to Sobriety not a fantasy board ...

Everyone have a safe happy and SOBER WEEKEND!

1) Awesome body for a 46 year old HELL YES one of my ATF's
2) porn ahh yes .. I love to make porn!
8) food love it! But Nowadays it's quinoa, brown rice, fish,chicken,oats
9) yes herbal tea I'm not giving up my love of tea either!


And I'm 100% with you on the last statement!!

I am lucky enough to know when enough is enough.. thank god I am built to not go over the deep end.... Originally Posted by Annika

thank you Annika,