False Flag Gov't Schemes for Gun control:

That's rich considering your wrote this:



If anyone is to blame for the gun control hysteria in this country, it's President Obama. Originally Posted by gnadfly

There is a difference between OPINION and FACT. The FACT is that no one on this forum has been able to support the OPINION that there are people in position of power that are campaigning for a total gun ban.

I've asked others and I'll ask you the same question -- who is asking that guns be totally banned in the U.S.? I'm sure that someone somewhere in the U.S. wants guns banned, but, as far as I know, no one in a real position of power has ever stated that as an objective. This is not the first time I've asked the question and I've received responses like 'We all know Diane Feinstein wants to ban all handguns but she won't come out and say it."

Gun hysteria??? Compared to other issues, the issue of gun control is way down the list of concerns for Americans. Certainly when mass killings such as Columbine and Newtown occur, gun control issues spiral to the top but rather quickly die down. For the majority of U.S. citizens issues such as the economy, affordable health care, terrorist attacks, and income are day-to-day concerns.

Please tell me how many homicides in the U.S. are due to the Mexican cartels. I doubt you can come up with an accurate number. Yes, probably a handful of killings in the U.S. have been done by people in the cartels. Compared to the estimated number of people killed in Mexico by the cartels, it is a drop of water in the ocean. Unless you can prove otherwise.

And you want to dismiss the arguments made in the article by Katie Lynch-Kemon. Your main problem is that there is only one side to an issue. It's your way or the highway. I think the Mises article brought up some interesting points, but the points are not written in stone but rather the OPINION of one person, who happens to agree with you. Grow up and learn how to look at things from both sides. Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

Can you put your blinders on any tighter, speedy? Are you actually and stupidly going to pretend that many if not most of the street-level, gun related homicides in this country are not directly related to the criminal enterprise of dealing drugs, speedy? Are you actually and stupidly going to pretend that the gun related homicides in this country directly related to the criminal enterprise of dealing drugs never involve Mexican drug cartels, speedy? Are you really that stupid, speedy? Look up Brian Terry, U.S. Border Patrol Agent, speedy, and tell us again that his death wasn't factored into the 2010 statistics for gun related homicides, speedy.

BTW, the Mises article raises legitimate points that you and your lib-retard ilk choose to ignore, because those points invalidate your POV, speedy. Furthermore, speedy, you never explained how you'd solve the burglary and theft "loophole" that criminals use to obtain guns. Do you plan to pass more laws, speedy?

What did you call him, IB? I didn't get that...

There is a difference between OPINION and FACT. The FACT is that no one on this forum has been able to support the OPINION that there are people in position of power that are campaigning for a total gun ban.

I've asked others and I'll ask you the same question -- who is asking that guns be totally banned in the U.S.? I'm sure that someone somewhere in the U.S. wants guns banned, but, as far as I know, no one in a real position of power has ever stated that as an objective. This is not the first time I've asked the question and I've received responses like 'We all know Diane Feinstein wants to ban all handguns but she won't come out and say it."

Gun hysteria??? Compared to other issues, the issue of gun control is way down the list of concerns for Americans. Certainly when mass killings such as Columbine and Newtown occur, gun control issues spiral to the top but rather quickly die down. For the majority of U.S. citizens issues such as the economy, affordable health care, terrorist attacks, and income are day-to-day concerns. Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

I am only speaking for myself. My only real concern is the economy. As far as gun control we control firearms in this country about as good as it can get without violating the second amendment. Total gun banning or even confiscation won't happen in our lifetime, I am pretty confident about that. As far as Healthcare or Health Ins. It's available and expensive that's about all that's worth mentioning. The last thing I concern myself with is terrorism. Terrorism is not a major threat to America. It just appears that it is because it's become a political subject. Also the Government has tweaked the definition to meet it's domestic needs. The NDAA and the Patriot Act are all political facades. America is an armed country, along with Law Enforcement, State National Guards and citizen formed militias were are actually quite capable of dealing with a Terrorist situation. I really don't for see ISIS roaming our cities wreaking havoc.

Jim

Can you put your blinders on any tighter, speedy? Are you actually and stupidly going to pretend that many if not most of the street-level, gun related homicides in this country are not directly related to the criminal enterprise of dealing drugs, speedy? Are you actually and stupidly going to pretend that the gun related homicides in this country directly related to the criminal enterprise of dealing drugs never involve Mexican drug cartels, speedy? Are you really that stupid, speedy? Look up Brian Terry, U.S. Border Patrol Agent, speedy, and tell us again that his death wasn't factored into the 2010 statistics for gun related homicides, speedy.

BTW, the Mises article raises legitimate points that you and your lib-retard ilk choose to ignore, because those points invalidate your POV, speedy. Furthermore, speedy, you never explained how you'd solve the burglary and theft "loophole" that criminals use to obtain guns. Do you plan to pass more laws, speedy? Originally Posted by I B Hankering

No, most of the 8,500 homicides in this country are NOT drug related. I never said that SOME of the homicides in this country are not due to a Mexican cartel but my guess is only a handful. Brian Terry is one. Only 8,499 more to explain. Once again you have made statements that you simply can't back up. You have stated that the Mexican drug cartels have had a significant impact on the U.S. homicide rate. Either back it up or shut up.

Yes, the Mises article raises legitimate points. It is ONE way to look at the data. Because it supports your POV, you believe it is the ONLY way to look at the data. I have presented data which invalidates the Mises POV. I consider my data source as valid as the Mises information, which invalidates YOUR POV. I consider education rates, income levels, poverty rates, and people's rights to be more valuable statistics in determining whether or not 2 countries are similar. So take your OPINION and shove it.

Regarding your last point, I never attempted to explain the "loophole". How would you solve it, since you are the self-recognized expert on such subjects? I realize that you are not very proficient at ANSWERING questions but try. Or do you simply accept the status quo?

I am only speaking for myself. My only real concern is the economy. As far as gun control we control firearms in this country about as good as it can get without violating the second amendment. Total gun banning or even confiscation won't happen in our lifetime, I am pretty confident about that. As far as Healthcare or Health Ins. It's available and expensive that's about all that's worth mentioning. The last thing I concern myself with is terrorism. Terrorism is not a major threat to America. It just appears that it is because it's become a political subject. Also the Government has tweaked the definition to meet it's domestic needs. The NDAA and the Patriot Act are all political facades. America is an armed country, along with Law Enforcement, State National Guards and citizen formed militias were are actually quite capable of dealing with a Terrorist situation. I really don't for see ISIS roaming our cities wreaking havoc.

Jim Originally Posted by Mr MojoRisin

Jim, nicely stated. The main concern about health care is the skyrocketing cost in our country, especially compared with other countries. America may be an "armed" country but that alone would not stop a handful of radicals from planting bombs in various locations that could potentially kill thousands of people. No, ISIS will not roam our cities, but we should never disregard the threat that exists.

No, most of the 8,500 homicides in this country are NOT drug related. I never said that SOME of the homicides in this country are not due to a Mexican cartel but my guess is only a handful. Brian Terry is one. Only 8,499 more to explain. Once again you have made statements that you simply can't back up. You have stated that the Mexican drug cartels have had a significant impact on the U.S. homicide rate. Either back it up or shut up.

Yes, the Mises article raises legitimate points. It is ONE way to look at the data. Because it supports your POV, you believe it is the ONLY way to look at the data. I have presented data which invalidates the Mises POV. I consider my data source as valid as the Mises information, which invalidates YOUR POV. I consider education rates, income levels, poverty rates, and people's rights to be more valuable statistics in determining whether or not 2 countries are similar. So take your OPINION and shove it.

Regarding your last point, I never attempted to explain the "loophole". How would you solve it, since you are the self-recognized expert on such subjects? I realize that you are not very proficient at ANSWERING questions but try. Or do you simply accept the status quo? Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

You're a deceitful, lying lib-retard, speedy. According to government statistics, approximately 65% of the perpetrators arrested for burglaries and robberies tested positive for drug use, speedy. Furthermore, between 48 to 65% of perpetrators arrested for homicide tested positive, speedy; so, drugs and the drug trade are a major factor in homicide statistics, speedy. You don't have a solution to deal with the theft of guns, do you speedy, except to burden society with more laws that the criminal element will continue to violate and ignore. You'd be one of those Odumbo minions that thinks dealing in drugs is a victimless crime while you ignore the trail of dead bodies leading from Chicago to Colombia, and you're probably pissing yourself in ecstasy that Odumbo chose to pardon hundreds of drug dealers allowing them to continue their criminal trade.

Drug-Related Crime

Mexican Drug Trafficking Organizations (DTOs) and their affiliates are more sophisticated and significantly more violent than they had been in the past. Enforcement arms of these DTOs have shot and injured law enforcement officers, rival DTO members, and gang members on both sides of the border. These traffickers vigorously protect drug shipments and will confront law enforcement officers directly or engage in high-speed chases to avoid arrest and interdiction.

High levels of violent crimes and property crimes within the Los Angeles HIDTA region are associated with the production, distribution, and abuse of illicit drugs in the region by law enforcement officials. A large percentage of drug-related violence that occurs in the region is reportedly committed by street and prison gang members; violent criminal acts perpetrated by such gang members include assault, homicide, robbery, theft, weapons trafficking, and witness intimidation. Gang-related violence, particularly homicides, in metropolitan areas has significantly increased since 2002. According to law enforcement officials, this increase is directly related to gang battles for drug distribution territories and the control of illicit drug distribution within and outside the region.

Drug-Related Crime

The northern Mexico states of Tamaulipas and Nuevo Leon have been the center of violent conflicts between the Gulf Cartel and the Sinaloa Cartel. Their struggle for control of lucrative smuggling routes through northern Mexico and South Texas resulted in a rise in the number of violent incidents and drug-related murders in these states.

What did you call him, IB? I didn't get that... Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Jim, nicely stated. The main concern about health care is the skyrocketing cost in our country, especially compared with other countries. America may be an "armed" country but that alone would not stop a handful of radicals from planting bombs in various locations that could potentially kill thousands of people. No, ISIS will not roam our cities, but we should never disregard the threat that exists. Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

The old saying "what goes up must come down" that's true about a lot of things unfortunately not with Healthcare. Even under the ACA we will still experience a rise in cost. As far as Terrorism, I am not saying we should under estimate the potential threat. As far as the possibility of a radical group planting bombs that would be an equivalent of being ambushed which is hard to defeat, but any armed encounters would prove not to be in their best interest. Unfortunately we have done as much to enable that enemy as we've done to suppress them.

Jim

[QUOTE=I B Hankering;1058074920][SIZE="3"][COLOR="Black"]You're a deceitful, lying lib-retard, speedy. According to government statistics, approximately 65% of the perpetrators arrested for burglaries and robberies tested positive for drug use, speedy. Furthermore, between 48 to 65% of perpetrators arrested for homicide tested positive, speedy; so, drugs and the drug trade are a major factor in homicide statistics, speedy. You don't have a solution to deal with the theft of guns, do you speedy, except to burden society with more laws that the criminal element will continue to violate and ignore. You'd be one of those Odumbo minions that thinks dealing in drugs is a victimless crime while you ignore the trail of dead bodies leading from Chicago to Colombia, and you're probably pissing yourself in ecstasy that Odumbo chose to pardon hundreds of drug dealers allowing them to continue their criminal trade. QUOTE]

You simply continue to validate my opinion that you are, BY FAR, the dumbest person on this forum. We have been talking HOMICIDES, not burglaries and robberies. GOT IT???

So once again I ask you to back up your statement that the Mexican drug cartels are behind a significant number of the approximately 8,500 homicides yearly in the U.S.

And please cite a statement by me in which I am asking for more gun laws.

You simply continue to validate my opinion that you are, BY FAR, the dumbest person on this forum. We have been talking HOMICIDES, not burglaries and robberies. GOT IT???

So once again I ask you to back up your statement that the Mexican drug cartels are behind a significant number of the approximately 8,500 homicides yearly in the U.S.

And please cite a statement by me in which I am asking for more gun laws. Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

You'd be the dumbest MFer on the board, speedy, because intelligent people know that many homicides are the side product of burglaries and robberies, speedy, and those statistics were provided gratis. And you doubled down on stupid by pretending that the very obvious statistics of drugs and homicides weren't provided, speedy. Furthermore, the two Department of Justice citations state that drug cartels are responsible for a significant amount of homicides, speedy, that you pretend not to see and understand what is written shows how really stupid you are, speedy. Or, are you really so stupid that you actually did not understand what the DOJ reported, speedy? When you admitted you voted for Odumbo, speedy, you admitted you were for more gun laws.

You'd be the dumbest MFer on the board, speedy, because intelligent people know that many homicides are the side product of burglaries and robberies, speedy, and those statistics were provided gratis. And you doubled down on stupid by pretending that the very obvious statistics of drugs and homicides weren't provided, speedy. Furthermore, the two Department of Justice citations state that drug cartels are responsible for a significant amount of homicides, speedy, that you pretend not to see and understand what is written shows how really stupid you are, speedy. When you admitted you voted for Odumbo, speedy, you admitted you were for more gun laws. Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Once again, you continue to validate my opinion that you are, by far, the dumbest person on this forum.

Out of the 8,500 homicides yearly in the U.S., how many of them are done by members of the Mexican cartel? Simple question which you continually avoid to answer. A homicide committed by someone in the U.S. who is NOT a member of a Mexican drug cartel but is in the drug business does not count. Also, of the 8,500 homicides, how many were committed by those involved with drug trafficking? Not by people on drugs. Can you come up with a validated number for either case?

And your continuing to assume that a person who votes for a specific candidate agrees with ALL of that candidate's positions, once again, validates my opinion that you are, by far, the dumbest person on this forum.

Once again, you continue to validate my opinion that you are, by far, the dumbest person on this forum.

Out of the 8,500 homicides yearly in the U.S., how many of them are done by members of the Mexican cartel? Simple question which you continually avoid to answer. A homicide committed by someone in the U.S. who is NOT a member of a Mexican drug cartel but is in the drug business does not count. Also, of the 8,500 homicides, how many were committed by those involved with drug trafficking? Not by people on drugs. Can you come up with a validated number for either case?

And your continuing to assume that a person who votes for a specific candidate agrees with ALL of that candidate's positions, once again, validates my opinion that you are, by far, the dumbest person on this forum. Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

But you'd be the stupid mofo that obviously can't read and understand that the DOJ clearly stated that gang members of Mexican Drug Trafficking Organizations are committing "violent criminal acts ... including assault and homicide" in Los Angeles, and that the Gulf Cartel and the Sinaloa Cartel have been involved in a "number of violent incidents and drug-related murders" in South Texas, speedy. Does your dumb ass not know that Texas and Los Angeles are in the United States, speedy? The DOJ clearly states that an increasing number of homicides are attributable to Mexican drug cartel activities, speedy, and you'd be the dumb jackass refusing to acknowledge what the DOJ published in black and white, speedy

But you'd be the stupid mofo that obviously can't read and understand that the DOJ clearly stated that gang members of Mexican Drug Trafficking Organizations are committing "violent criminal acts ... including assault and homicide" in Los Angeles, and that the Gulf Cartel and the Sinaloa Cartel have been involved in a "number of violent incidents and drug-related murders" in South Texas, speedy. Does your dumb ass not know that Texas and Los Angeles are in the United States, speedy? The DOJ clearly states that an increasing number of homicides are attributable to Mexican drug cartel activities, speedy, and you'd be the dumb jackass refusing to acknowledge what the DOJ published in black and white, speedy Originally Posted by I B Hankering

You continue to validate my opinion that you are, by far, the dumbest person on this forum. You simply won't, or can't, answer my simple questions.

How many homicides in the U.S. have been committed by members of the Mexican cartel? You have proven the number is at least one over many years. How many homicides in the U.S. have been committed by drug traffickers other than members of the Mexican cartel? There is absolutely NOTHING in the data you presented that speaks to absolute numbers.

I am not saying the answer to either question is "none", but if the number is 100 or less, then it is a drop in the bucket.

You continue to validate my opinion that you are, by far, the dumbest person on this forum. You simply won't, or can't, answer my simple questions.

How many homicides in the U.S. have been committed by members of the Mexican cartel? You have proven the number is at least one over many years. How many homicides in the U.S. have been committed by drug traffickers other than members of the Mexican cartel? There is absolutely NOTHING in the data you presented that speaks to absolute numbers.

I am not saying the answer to either question is "none", but if the number is 100 or less, then it is a drop in the bucket. Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

It was your original contention that Mexican cartel homicides weren't at all a factor in the U.S. homicide rate, speedy; so you can take your equivocation and shove it where the sun doesn't shine, speedy. The homicide rate of dozens of other U.S. cities attributable to Mexican cartel drug trade is discussed at the DOJ website, speedy; so, you do the math, speedy.

http://usconservatives.about.com/od/...erspective.htm