Great Ironies of Liberalism

I judge people individually. Especially when providing care. You should try it some time. Originally Posted by thathottnurse

I only wish, as a white man, that I could be judged individually, instead of as a non protected class.
However, I only wish to judge the incoming immigrants individually, anyway.
The ones that give more than they take can stay and be productive. The others can go contribute to the wreck of a home country they want to leave.

And they make those decisions individually. If you wanna get upaet about something take it up with lobbyists and special interest GROUPS. And what do those typically consist of? Lawyers. If you wanna blame any one particular group of people for the downfall of American society, blame them.

JL, for your own sake, please stop watching fox news and stop blaming immigrants for the country's misfortunes. It's a classic, few decades ago it was the jews who were to blame for all the ills of the world, now it's the immigrants. Most of them come here for the same reasons your ancestors came here, to provide a better future for their kids. I bet if you would cut grass or pick up fruits at 120 °F all day long, you would beg Mexico to send more immigrants. And one more thing stop bashing Harvard, that is typical from the people who were not smart enough to get accepted there.

However, I only wish to judge the incoming immigrants individually, anyway.

The ones that give more than they take can stay and be productive. The others can go contribute to the wreck of a home country they want to leave. Originally Posted by Jewish Lawyer

That is about as idiotic an argument as can be made. It is petty, narrow, ignorant and lacking any vision at all. Let me ask you this, when do you judge your children to be a success? at 12, 18, 21, 30, 45? What criteria do you use? Does that and should that apply to everyone's children?

What would have happened if we had judged the parents of thousands of highly successful 2nd generation immigrants by your standard and kept them out? We would have lost incredible contributions to our society that would make us all poorer and the world as well.

Yes, you can and should have some standards, but no one call really tell what someone will do in the future when they come to America and have opportunities to contribute and follow their ambition and dreams much less what their children or grandchildren may do. That is part of the beauty and wonder of what America is.

And they make those decisions individually. If you wanna get upaet about something take it up with lobbyists and special interest GROUPS. And what do those typically consist of? Lawyers. If you wanna blame any one particular group of people for the downfall of American society, blame them. Originally Posted by thathottnurse

About half our our Founding Fathers were lawyers.Of the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence, 25 were lawyers. Of the 55 framers of the Constitution, 32 were lawyers.

We are a nation of laws that benefits from the rule of law. You can blame lawyers for America too

Well what are they doing now??? Same as the immigrant argument that JL is making. Just saying.

That is about as idiotic an argument as can be made. It is petty, narrow, ignorant and lacking any vision at all. Let me ask you this, when do you judge your children to be a success? at 12, 18, 21, 30, 45? What criteria do you use? Does that and should that apply to everyone's children?

What would have happened if we had judged the parents of thousands of highly successful 2nd generation immigrants by your standard and kept them out? We would have lost incredible contributions to our society that would make us all poorer and the world as well.

Yes, you can and should have some standards, but no one call really tell what someone will do in the future when they come to America and have opportunities to contribute and follow their ambition and dreams much less what their children or grandchildren may do. That is part of the beauty and wonder of what America is. Originally Posted by LordBeaverbrook

You don't really have an objective measure to prove immigrants, over any time frame over the last fifty years were a net benefit to the USA. For one thing, the country has gone downhill in the last fifty years. I don't blame that on immigrants but I don't use your dreamy eyed mythology, either.
Even if America were still a great nation, which it clearly is not anymore, and immigrants built it as you say, why not have high standards on who gets to come, anyway?

JL, for your own sake, please stop watching fox news and stop blaming immigrants for the country's misfortunes. It's a classic, few decades ago it was the jews who were to blame for all the ills of the world, now it's the immigrants. Most of them come here for the same reasons your ancestors came here, to provide a better future for their kids. I bet if you would cut grass or pick up fruits at 120 °F all day long, you would beg Mexico to send more immigrants. And one more thing stop bashing Harvard, that is typical from the people who were not smart enough to get accepted there. Originally Posted by frenchybruno18

When did I bash Harvard, you fucking idiot? Harvard makes my point that selectivity ensures success.
If native born Americans had to pick fruit and mow the grass, they could do it - who the fuck do you think did it before Mexicans came here? Hell, asshole, I mowed the grass when I was a kid!!! I thought it was fun. I admire the Mexicans who work, and don't like the ones who don't work and get welfare. SAME FOR WHITE PEOPLE!!!

About half our our Founding Fathers were lawyers.Of the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence, 25 were lawyers. Of the 55 framers of the Constitution, 32 were lawyers.

We are a nation of laws that benefits from the rule of law. You can blame lawyers for America too Originally Posted by LordBeaverbrook

We have ceased to be a nation of laws. When a single man can change any law at will then we have become what the founders warned against.

And they make those decisions individually. If you wanna get upaet about something take it up with lobbyists and special interest GROUPS. And what do those typically consist of? Lawyers. If you wanna blame any one particular group of people for the downfall of American society, blame them. Originally Posted by thathottnurse

Wow - just when I thought it was a good idea to treat individuals as individuals, then you go with a group stereotype. I guess it is a woman's right to change her mind.....

It's well known that 98% of lawyers make the other 2% look bad.

You see JL, when you are getting challenged, you start calling people names. But it is ok, maturity doesn't come overnight, and in your case I suspect it will take some time. But back to the issue, I was under the impression that it was not a compliment when you called Harvard a liberal bastion, that is straight from Limbaugh's playbook, but hey if you believe liberals are smarter, who am I to disagree with you. I hate to break it to you but selectivity doesn't ensure success, opportunity does. And that is the reason why millions of people from all over the world want to come to the US of A, just like your parents or grand parents before them so they could provide better opportunities for they own children. You believe that everybody can do the jobs immigrants are doing now, well here is the link of an article that should illuminate you. http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin...law-backfires/
As you can see, it is a Forbes article, I could have gone msnbc all the way but I decided to go easy on you, no need to thank me, really. One more thing, only someone who is truly fucked up would think that mowing grass all day long above 100 degrees is FUN. You do that when you need to provide for your family. I guess my definition of fun is different from yours but I have an offer for you, why don't you come over and mow my lawn, you will have fun and I will save a few bucks, you see it is a win win situation.

You see JL, when you are getting challenged, you start calling people names. But it is ok, maturity doesn't come overnight, and in your case I suspect it will take some time. But back to the issue, I was under the impression that it was not a compliment when you called Harvard a liberal bastion, that is straight from Limbaugh's playbook, but hey if you believe liberals are smarter, who am I to disagree with you. I hate to break it to you but selectivity doesn't ensure success, opportunity does. And that is the reason why millions of people from all over the world want to come to the US of A, just like your parents or grand parents before them so they could provide better opportunities for they own children. You believe that everybody can do the jobs immigrants are doing now, well here is the link of an article that should illuminate you. http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin...law-backfires/
As you can see, it is a Forbes article, I could have gone msnbc all the way but I decided to go easy on you, no need to thank me, really. One more thing, only someone who is truly fucked up would think that mowing grass all day long above 100 degrees is FUN. You do that when you need to provide for your family. I guess my definition of fun is different from yours but I have an offer for you, why don't you come over and mow my lawn, you will have fun and I will save a few bucks, you see it is a win win situation. Originally Posted by frenchybruno18

In this case, calling Harvard a liberal bastion wasn't meant to discredit it but instead to create an unimpeachable reference in the opinion of most liberals, and I listen to Mark Levin, not Limbaugh.
Opportunity alone doesn't ensure success, hard work and ability plus luck needs to go with it.
I fully understand why millions of people come to the USA. I don't understand why we let them fuck us for free.
300 per hour, including travel time and expenses to mow these days, amigo.

p.s. Fuck Forbes and its apologia for rampant exploitative capitalism. One year is not a good sample size for labor force trends which have taken years to develop. Obviously, the fucking farmers who got cheap labor are banging the drum for cheap labor, but fuck them - they need to pay the market wage for authorized American workers, and so what if we pay more for our food - most American are too fucking fat, anyway. Americans would do the job if no one else is around. You liberals don't trust oil company scientist's opinions on global warming, so why take farm industry "economists" opinion on availability of labor?

Immigrant statistics from 2010:

Poverty

• In 2010, 23 percent of immigrants and their U.S.-born children (under 18) lived in poverty, compared to 13.5 percent of natives and their children. Immigrants and their children accounted for one-fourth of all persons in poverty.
• The children of immigrants account for one-third of all children in poverty.
• Among the top sending countries, poverty is highest for immigrants and their young children from Mexico (35 percent), Honduras (34 percent), and Guatemala (31 percent); and lowest for those from Germany (7 percent), India (6 percent), and the Philippines (6 percent).

Welfare Use

• In 2010, 36 percent of immigrant-headed households used at least one major welfare program (primarily food assistance and Medicaid) compared to 23 percent of native households.
• Among the top sending countries, welfare use is highest for households headed by immigrants from Mexico (57 percent), Guatemala (55 percent), and the Dominican Republic (54 percent); and lowest for those from Canada (13 percent), Germany (10 percent), and the United Kingdom (6 percent).

Is this how a middle of the road country like the USA becomes great again?

You see JL, when you are getting challenged, you start calling people names. But it is ok, maturity doesn't come overnight, and in your case I suspect it will take some time. But back to the issue, I was under the impression that it was not a compliment when you called Harvard a liberal bastion, that is straight from Limbaugh's playbook, but hey if you believe liberals are smarter, who am I to disagree with you. I hate to break it to you but selectivity doesn't ensure success, opportunity does. And that is the reason why millions of people from all over the world want to come to the US of A, just like your parents or grand parents before them so they could provide better opportunities for they own children. You believe that everybody can do the jobs immigrants are doing now, well here is the link of an article that should illuminate you. http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin...law-backfires/
As you can see, it is a Forbes article, I could have gone msnbc all the way but I decided to go easy on you, no need to thank me, really. One more thing, only someone who is truly fucked up would think that mowing grass all day long above 100 degrees is FUN. You do that when you need to provide for your family. I guess my definition of fun is different from yours but I have an offer for you, why don't you come over and mow my lawn, you will have fun and I will save a few bucks, you see it is a win win situation. Originally Posted by frenchybruno18

Somebody has a new handle... Who could it be?