Sinema stands with her fellow Democrats on social spending and climate bill. It’s a done deal.

  • Tiny
  • 08-08-2022, 09:10 AM
I beg to differ bout Obamacare. At least in my case, it made a giant difference in my premium and access. As a self employed individual with a bunch of pre-existing conditions in the family, I was paying more for my shitty policy than my house and cars combined. And getting nothing.

Obamacare helped me get the penile reduction the hobby community so sorely needed!

Seriously … it was a life changer for my family. Originally Posted by Yssup Rider
You’re still not getting an argument from me Yssup. My problem is with the overall cost of health care and what we get for what we pay. Neither party has done much about that. I’m glad you’re happy with your insurance and it’s worked out well for you. I’m self employed too and paying out the wazoo for it. I recently looked at a policy that would cover me everywhere except the USA, because I’m looking at moving overseas. It was 1/3rd of what I pay here.

We’re paying 18% of GDP on healthcare, more than anyplace else. Life expectancy though is 54th in the world, 15 places below Cuba:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...ife_expectancy

Btw, one of your “likes” was for the penile reduction. I was kind of lukewarm about the rest of your post but am glad your dates’ vaginas aren’t getting stretched out more than they have to be
  • Tiny
  • 08-08-2022, 09:41 AM
Don't just do something... stand there!

You don't get it. The way to reduce spending-fueled inflation is to STOP SPENDING. This bill pours another $700 billion onto the fire. Originally Posted by lustylad
But they did do something about it! Crafty Democrats. They passed out pork to favored constituencies and then they slapped some lipstick on that pig. The Inflation Reduction Act! It’s kind of like the poorly named American Rescue Plan. Pushing us towards 9% inflation does not count as a “rescue.” But maybe it’s good marketing if people believe it.
lustylad's Avatar
But maybe it’s good marketing if people believe it. Originally Posted by Tiny
The OP believes it. He believes in the Easter Bunny and the tooth fairy too. When confronted with the inflation data, he said "something had to be done for this bump in the road". That's what passes for deep thinking when you couldn't pass Econ 101.
WTF's Avatar
  • WTF
  • 08-08-2022, 10:39 AM
But they did do something about it! Crafty Democrats. They passed out pork to favored constituencies and then they slapped some lipstick on that pig. . Originally Posted by Tiny
Similar to the 2017 tax cuts!


How do you expect Democrats NOT to spend on their base when that is exactly wtf Republicans do!

I've never understood the hypocrisy...







.....and the math some of you use to justify the support for charity of choice many of you use. Be it business or labor.

Why would you think for a minute the Democrats would not try and ram their agenda down your face like Trump and THE GOP did.

Trump was running almost trillion dollar deficits BEFORE the pandemic and folks like our guru were praising him
Leave it to someone with a username like mine to have a contrarian take on this issue!

The name "Inflation Reduction Act" may seem like a comically ridiculous misnomer to Lustylad, Tiny, or anyone else with a good understanding of the public policy debate and economic issues.

But, in one curiously bizarre way, I think the name of the bill might actually be a fairly shrewd move on the part of Democrats! (At least by the low standard usually set.)

Contrarian take:

Headline inflation is likely to start trending downward very soon as pent-up demand is gradually getting sated, the mother of all sugar highs caused by the B-52 drops of cash into household accounts gets spent down, the housing market takes it on the chin, and base-effect rolloffs move their way through.

Even if the headline CPI inflation rate only drops by a couple of percentage points over the next three months, Karine will likely step to the podium and announce the administration's victory lap, assigning credit to the "Inflation Reduction Act."

Just look at what happened last month, when she gleefully announced that gasoline prices had come down for something like 40 consecutive days, as though Biden had undertaken some wise move to bring that about! (Never mind the fact that gasoline prices are still about 80% higher than on 1/20/21.)

Predicted late October Democratic campaign claim:

"See? Inflation is headed down! The Inflation Reduction Act is working! We are delivering for the American people!"
WTF's Avatar
  • WTF
  • 08-08-2022, 10:43 AM
But they did do something about it! Crafty Democrats. They passed out pork to favored constituencies and then they slapped some lipstick on that pig. The Inflation Reduction Act! It’s kind of like the poorly named American Rescue Plan. Pushing us towards 9% inflation does not count as a “rescue.” But maybe it’s good marketing if people believe it. Originally Posted by Tiny
What part of be respectful to fellow posters are you having trouble with?
Leave it to someone with a username like mine to have a contrarian take on this issue!

The name "Inflation Reduction Act" may seem like a comically ridiculous misnomer to Lustylad, Tiny, or anyone else with a good understanding of the public policy debate and economic issues.

But, in one curiously bizarre way, I think the name of the bill might actually be a fairly shrewd move on the part of Democrats! (At least by the low standard usually set.)

Contrarian take:

Headline inflation is likely to start trending downward very soon as pent-up demand is gradually getting sated, the mother of all sugar highs caused by the B-52 drops of cash into household accounts gets spent down, the housing market takes it on the chin, and base-effect rolloffs move their way through.

Even if the headline CPI inflation rate only drops by a couple of percentage points over the next three months, Karine will likely step to the podium and announce the administration's victory lap, assigning credit to the "Inflation Reduction Act."

Just look at what happened last month, when she gleefully announced that gasoline prices had come down for something like 40 consecutive days, as though Biden had undertaken some wise move to bring that about! (Never mind the fact that gasoline prices are still about 80% higher than on 1/20/21.)

Predicted late October Democratic campaign claim:

"See? Inflation is headed down! The Inflation Reduction Act is working! We are delivering for the American people!" Originally Posted by Texas Contrarian
a surfeit of guile coupled with smooth equivocation
lustylad's Avatar
So much for hoping Sinema would remove the poison!

Look - I'm not a fan of stock buybacks. They're often the last refuge of the unimaginative CEO. But they do have their time and place. The last thing I want to see is the fucking feds sticking their greedy fingers into yet another place where they have no business going - this time, they're gumming up the free flow of capital and infringing on the freedom of private companies to fine-tune their own balance sheets.

This is dangerous and frightening stuff. It's a sop to the clueless socialists who disparage ALL stock buybacks as evil because they hate capitalism and, like Bernie Sanders, never worked in the private sector or met a payroll and therefore don't understand the workings of the economic system they detest, the one that creates all of the wealth they feed off for the government largesse they need to expand their power.

As the WSJ notes, once this tax is created don't think the dumbass dim-retards will stop at 1%. And they are chock-full of other bad ideas that would throw all kinds of monkey wrenches into the US economy. I've heard talk of a tax on all stock and/or transactions. Just think what that would do for the liquidity of our financial markets!

(I realize this topic is way beyond the ken of the OP, but perhaps other posters would care to weigh in.)


Democrats Trade One Bad Tax Increase for Another

Their stock buyback levy will hurt shareholders far more than it will CEOs.


By The Editorial Board
Aug. 5, 2022 6:27 pm ET

What Sen. Kyrsten Sinema giveth, she taketh away. That’s the main conclusion from the tax bargain she struck Thursday with Sen. Chuck Schumer over changes to Mr. Schumer’s tax-and-spend deal with Sen. Joe Manchin. Some tax provisions in the misnamed Inflation Reduction Act were improved, although as always with the current Congress at considerable economic cost.

Ms. Sinema nixed tax changes on carried interest that would have hit private-equity investors, and she moderated the damage of the 15% minimum tax on book earnings by allowing for accelerated depreciation of business investment. This is an improvement and offers a reprieve for U.S. manufacturers in particular, as we've been writing.

In exchange, however, she and Senate Democrats are imposing another bad idea—a levy on share buybacks. This new tax would apply at 1% on the market value of shares that companies buy back from their shareholders, with limited exceptions such as buybacks intended to prevent dilution of existing owners when employees exercise stock options.

Details of the new proposal are still scarce, but Mr. Schumer said Friday it would raise $74 billion. That would more than offset the $55 billion in putative revenue Mr. Schumer says the Democrats are foregoing by allowing accelerated depreciation and other tweaks to the book tax.

Progressives and some conservatives with a shaky grasp of economics are fixated on buybacks, because they believe share purchases are a tool for fat-cat executives to goose earnings per share while starving their companies of investment. It’s more like the opposite.

Companies use buybacks to return cash to shareholders for which they don’t have a better use. Shareholders who sell shares back to the company can invest the proceeds elsewhere. That beats letting the cash sit on corporate books earning interest while CEOs get complacent or decide to buy a business they don’t understand how to run.

Buybacks aren’t tax free: Owners who sell shares back to the company realize a taxable capital gain. Any boost in the share price contributes to a higher taxable gain for remaining owners when they sell their shares in the future.

Why not pay dividends instead? Companies and shareholders might prefer buybacks in some instances, such as if the company is disbursing a one-time lump sum or shifting the balance of equity and debt on its books. For the economy overall, buybacks have the effect of distributing capital specifically to those owners who choose to participate because they believe they have a more productive use for it. Capital flows from companies that don’t need it to companies that do.

Sen. Sinema’s 1% levy represents a climbdown from the 2% rate Senate Democrats tried to include in the Build Back Better plan last year. But don’t think the rate will stop at 1% once Democrats create this new tax, and don’t assume there are no economic costs even at the 1% rate. This is still a tax on capital and investment by a different name, and it will hit share values and your 401(k).

America needs fewer tax impediments to the free and productive flow of capital to investors and entrepreneurs, as Sen. Sinema recognized with her other changes to the Schumer-Manchin plan. Alas the progressive demand for more revenue, and to punish business, is insatiable, so any tax gimmick they can conjure up to cobble together 50 Senate votes will do.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trading...er-11659723202
WTF's Avatar
  • WTF
  • 08-08-2022, 11:08 AM
Leave it to someone with a username like mine to have a contrarian take on this issue!

The name "Inflation Reduction Act" may seem like a comically ridiculous misnomer to Lustylad, Tiny, or anyone else with a good understanding of the public policy debate and economic issues.

But, in one curiously bizarre way, I think the name of the bill might actually be a fairly shrewd move on the part of Democrats! (At least by the low standard usually set.)

Contrarian take:

Headline inflation is likely to start trending downward very soon as pent-up demand is gradually getting sated, the mother of all sugar highs caused by the B-52 drops of cash into household accounts gets spent down, the housing market takes it on the chin, and base-effect rolloffs move their way through.

Even if the headline CPI inflation rate only drops by a couple of percentage points over the next three months, Karine will likely step to the podium and announce the administration's victory lap, assigning credit to the "Inflation Reduction Act."

Just look at what happened last month, when she gleefully announced that gasoline prices had come down for something like 40 consecutive days, as though Biden had undertaken some wise move to bring that about! (Never mind the fact that gasoline prices are still about 80% higher than on 1/20/21.)

Predicted late October Democratic campaign claim:

"See? Inflation is headed down! The Inflation Reduction Act is working! We are delivering for the American people!" Originally Posted by Texas Contrarian
Sounds like 1982 all over again....except the people falling for the nonsense coming out of Washington were Tiny and lustylad! back then


It remains to be seen if Biden can hoodwink a whole generation of economic guru's into believing this nonsense like Reagan did with his" tax cuts always pay for themselves"!
lustylad's Avatar
How do you expect Democrats NOT to spend on their base when that is exactly wtf Republicans do!

I've never understood the hypocrisy... Originally Posted by WTF
Of course.

You've made it clear you only "understand" democrat hypocrisy... whenever they act like Lucy snatching the football away from you at the last second on the issue of closing the carried-interest tax loophole, you call them "brilliant"!

lustylad's Avatar
a surfeit of guile coupled with smooth equivocation Originally Posted by nevergaveitathought
Best part of Contrarian's post was the title:

"Arguments Designed to Appeal to Those Suffering From an Extreme Case of Ignorance or Innumeracy"
lustylad's Avatar
Sounds like 1982 all over again.... Originally Posted by WTF
Let's hope so!

The "out" party picked up 26 House seats and one Senate seat in the 1982 midterms.
lustylad's Avatar
What part of be respectful to fellow posters are you having trouble with? Originally Posted by WTF
If I may respectfully inquire, who pissed in your Wheaties today?
Yssup Rider's Avatar
Amid all the rage whining, the question has been posed as to why I didn't use the "Inflation Reduction Act" in the OP.

The answer is simple: I quoted Fox News. Verbatim.

Fox News's headline. Fox News's story.

Figured that might cut through the rage whining. Apparently not.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH!
lustylad's Avatar
...the question has been posed as to why I didn't use the "Inflation Reduction Act" in the OP.

The answer is simple: I quoted Fox News. Verbatim.

Fox News's headline. Fox News's story. Originally Posted by Yssup Rider
Thanks for responding. 3 days late. Except you didn't quote the Fox story verbatim.

The Fox headline doesn't say Sinema "stands with her fellow Democrats" nor does it say "It's a done deal."

Those embellishments were added by the pom-pom shaking DNC cheerleaders.

Nice try, though.