You mean like Vincent Bugliosi before he passed away this year?I haven't read his book but I've had a lot of it read to me, lol. I had the honor of being married to a women who read dam near every book on the JFK Assassination. There are many compelling arguments on this subject. During the time of the assassination there was no social media it took a significant number of years before alternative accounts of how and why the assassination took place and why the Warren Commission may have been flawed. In the mean time history had been written and ingrained into the psyche of the American public.
Read his book - you will have a hard time refuting him.
I've stood on the Grassy Knoll and it is at a right angle to the final shot seen on the Zapruder film - no way someone shot from behind that picket fence for the final shot.
I've stood on the Sixth floor at the sniper's perch and the shot lines up for a very easy shot to make for a qualified marine like Oswald. Either that, or someone standing right in front of the Limo on the triple underpass - which everyone would have seen.
Face it - Oswald, acting alone, killed Kennedy. Originally Posted by friendly fred
- Levianon17
- 10-05-2019, 06:25 PM
- bambino
- 10-05-2019, 06:30 PM
I haven't read his book but I've had a lot of it read to me, lol. I had the honor of being married to a women who read dam near every book on the JFK Assassination. There are many compelling arguments on this subject. During the time of the assassination there was no social media it took a significant number of years before alternative accounts of how and why the assassination took place and why the Warren Commission may have been flawed. In the mean time history had been written and ingrained into the psyche of the American public. Originally Posted by Levianon17You don’t have to read it. Just take an hour to listen to the debate between Wecht and Bulosi
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RvLURvnbFfo
One can believe who they want to believe. Both brilliant men. Bulosi is a Lawyer, Wecht is a Lawyer and a world renowned Forensic Pathologist. I believe Wecht.
- oeb11
- 10-05-2019, 06:32 PM
OK - the Sixth floor Museum in the former School book Depository building encompasses both 6th and 7th floors. Oswald's window is set up as the day of the assassination - and plexiglass protected. One can go to the window directly above on the 7th floor and get a good view of what Oswald saw, except the trees are grown bigger than in 1963 - most everything else is the same. In 1963 the trees did not obstruct the view from the 6th floor window to the street below.
Sixth floor Museum is a very good historical visit. Recommended.
None of the tapes - Zapruder, or any, show a glass intrusion from a shot into the limo. The limo carried the Kennedy's and Connollys directly to the ER entrance at Parkland hospital. With cop and investigators all over - a bullet hole in the limo windshield would have been noted.
No evidence of such.
Advocates of that theory - Please Show a photo or proof of the bullet hole through the limo windshield. Does not exist, IMHO.
I have been a colleague and first hand friend of almost all of the physicians involved in the care of Kennedy and Connally. And Oswald and Ruby. Except G. Tom Shires. He left for the chair of Surgery at U Washington Seattle.
Dr, Robert McClellland just passed away. One of the most erudite men i ever met. Doris Nelson RN, was scrub nursein the JFK OR , and became the Head Nurse in PMH ER - and a person no one trifled with. With those and other I have had personal discussions of what went on encompassing the medical care of JFK and Connally, and Oswald and jack ruby.
JFK's Dallas death certificate was signed by the Chair of Neurosurgery - Kemp Clark. He was called, entered the OR, saw the head wound, and Said -"He's dead". Clark then left. Clark was famously closed mouthed. And was generally taciturn when asked about the subject.
There will always be conspiracy theories - and as Jack Ruby said in Parkland while dying of metastatic cancer -" I am the only one who knows the truth of the story". - loosely paraphrased. Jack Reynolds - radiology Professor - kept ruby's chest x ray showing his chest metastasis nodules in his desk to show new students.
We may well never know exactly how Oswald came to shoot JFK - but the evidence he did so is considerable. And no good evidence for another shooter. There are many interesting details, such as the "Pristine bullet" found on a Parkland gurney - that are difficult to explain.
No question there are still questions about both JFK and RFK and who was behind those assassinations.
I am not going to debate or argue conspiracy theories , nor put up with the name-calling that goes on on this site. If One wishes to post cogently and constructively on the topic - i welcome that.
All are entitled to an opinion.
I do suggest a visit to the 6th floor Museum - it is well done, sobering, almost a sanctuary atmosphere.Nnot expensive and well worth the visit - lots of artifacts and history there. I have visited several times.
Sixth floor Museum is a very good historical visit. Recommended.
None of the tapes - Zapruder, or any, show a glass intrusion from a shot into the limo. The limo carried the Kennedy's and Connollys directly to the ER entrance at Parkland hospital. With cop and investigators all over - a bullet hole in the limo windshield would have been noted.
No evidence of such.
Advocates of that theory - Please Show a photo or proof of the bullet hole through the limo windshield. Does not exist, IMHO.
I have been a colleague and first hand friend of almost all of the physicians involved in the care of Kennedy and Connally. And Oswald and Ruby. Except G. Tom Shires. He left for the chair of Surgery at U Washington Seattle.
Dr, Robert McClellland just passed away. One of the most erudite men i ever met. Doris Nelson RN, was scrub nursein the JFK OR , and became the Head Nurse in PMH ER - and a person no one trifled with. With those and other I have had personal discussions of what went on encompassing the medical care of JFK and Connally, and Oswald and jack ruby.
JFK's Dallas death certificate was signed by the Chair of Neurosurgery - Kemp Clark. He was called, entered the OR, saw the head wound, and Said -"He's dead". Clark then left. Clark was famously closed mouthed. And was generally taciturn when asked about the subject.
There will always be conspiracy theories - and as Jack Ruby said in Parkland while dying of metastatic cancer -" I am the only one who knows the truth of the story". - loosely paraphrased. Jack Reynolds - radiology Professor - kept ruby's chest x ray showing his chest metastasis nodules in his desk to show new students.
We may well never know exactly how Oswald came to shoot JFK - but the evidence he did so is considerable. And no good evidence for another shooter. There are many interesting details, such as the "Pristine bullet" found on a Parkland gurney - that are difficult to explain.
No question there are still questions about both JFK and RFK and who was behind those assassinations.
I am not going to debate or argue conspiracy theories , nor put up with the name-calling that goes on on this site. If One wishes to post cogently and constructively on the topic - i welcome that.
All are entitled to an opinion.
I do suggest a visit to the 6th floor Museum - it is well done, sobering, almost a sanctuary atmosphere.Nnot expensive and well worth the visit - lots of artifacts and history there. I have visited several times.
- The_Waco_Kid
- 10-05-2019, 06:52 PM
You mean like Vincent Bugliosi before he passed away this year?
Read his book - you will have a hard time refuting him.
I've stood on the Grassy Knoll and it is at a right angle to the final shot seen on the Zapruder film - no way someone shot from behind that picket fence for the final shot.
I've stood on the Sixth floor at the sniper's perch and the shot lines up for a very easy shot to make for a qualified marine like Oswald. Either that, or someone standing right in front of the Limo on the triple underpass - which everyone would have seen.
Face it - Oswald, acting alone, killed Kennedy. Originally Posted by friendly fred
some of what you posted lines up with some of what i posted, i do recall that the head shot could have come of the sixth floor. was not sure about the grassy knoll, i'll take your word that it doesn't line up to the head shot. been too many years since i've watched a detailed review of the Zapurder film and there have been many CGI recreations based on it.
it is certainly possible for Oswald from that location to make both shots. and he certainly had the training from the Marines to do it. experts have used the same crappy Italian military rifle to prove the known number of shots could have been made by a long shooter in the time frame shown in the film by Zaparuder.
so why would Oswald claim he was a patsy? if he acted alone why not yell "Communism Forever!" or some like that? strange choice of words and for whatever reason he said it, it does give rise to others possibly being involved.
then there is Ruby, who conveniently silenced Oswald and did claim later he regretted it. was it the truth or disinformation? we'll never know from Rudy as he never said anymore on the matter before he died.
and then there is Bugliosi, who on the one hand claims JFK's assassination was a lone shooter, Oswald then claims RFK's assassination was a conspiracy. Hmmm.
it is possible he's right on both counts. part of the ongoing conspiracy theory about JFK is that many can't accept that a lone gunman could do such a thing. it's possible many need to believe it was a conspiracy because accepting that Oswald acting alone is such a shocking blow to the nation.
JFK assassination
In 1986, Bugliosi played the part of prosecutor in an unscripted 21-hour mock television trial of Lee Harvey Oswald. His legal opponent, representing Oswald, was the well-known criminal defense attorney Gerry Spence. London Weekend Television sponsored the mock trial, which followed Texas criminal trial procedure. It also included a former Texas judge and a jury of U.S. citizens from the Dallas area which reviewed hundreds of exhibits and listened to witnesses who testified about the assassination. The jury found Oswald guilty. Spence remarked, "No other lawyer in America could have done what Vince did in this case."[9]
The program required extensive preparation by Bugliosi and inspired him to later write a comprehensive book on the subject of the assassination. His 1,612-page book (with a CD-ROM containing an additional 958 pages of endnotes and 170 pages of source notes), Reclaiming History: The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy, was published in May 2007. His book examined the JFK assassination in detail and drew on a variety of sources; his findings were in line with those of the Warren Report, which concluded that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone in the assassination of the 35th President. He called Reclaiming History his "magnum opus."[10] The book won the 2008 Edgar Award for Best Fact Crime.[11] A portion of the book was re-published in 2008 as Four Days in November: The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy, which became the basis of the 2013 film Parkland.
The title of Reclaiming History derived from Bugliosi's belief that the history of the Kennedy assassination has been hijacked by conspiracy theories, the popularity of which, he asserted, has a pernicious and ongoing effect on American thought:
Unless this fraud is finally exposed, the word believe will be forgotten by future generations and John F. Kennedy will have unquestionably become the victim of a conspiracy. Belief will have become unchallenged fact, and the faith of the American people in their institutions further eroded. If that is allowed to happen, Lee Harvey Oswald, a man who hated his country and everything for which it stands, will have triumphed even beyond his intent on that fateful day in November.RFK assassination
— Vincent Bugliosi, Reclaiming History, p.1011.
Bugliosi is on record for believing that Senator Robert Kennedy was the victim of a conspiracy. He said the following during a civil trial of the RFK assassination:
We are talking about a conspiracy to commit murder ... a conspiracy the prodigious dimensions of which would make Watergate look like a one-roach marijuana case.[12]
- bambino
- 10-05-2019, 06:57 PM
OK - the Sixth floor Museum in the former School book Depository building encompasses both 6th and 7th floors. Oswald's window is set up as the day of the assassination - and plexiglass protected. One can go to the window directly above on the 7th floor and get a good view of what Oswald saw, except the trees are grown bigger than in 1963 - most everything else is the same. In 1963 the trees did not obstruct the view from the 6th floor window to the street below.Dr McClellan maintains the back of JFKs skull was blown away. He was holding his head. It was an exit wound that had to come from the grassy knoll.
Sixth floor Museum is a very good historical visit. Recommended.
None of the tapes - Zapruder, or any, show a glass intrusion from a shot into the limo. The limo carried the Kennedy's and Connollys directly to the ER entrance at Parkland hospital. With cop and investigators all over - a bullet hole in the limo windshield would have been noted.
No evidence of such.
Advocates of that theory - Please Show a photo or proof of the bullet hole through the limo windshield. Does not exist, IMHO.
I have been a colleague and first hand friend of almost all of the physicians involved in the care of Kennedy and Connally. And Oswald and Ruby. Except G. Tom Shires. He left for the chair of Surgery at U Washington Seattle.
Dr, Robert McClellland just passed away. One of the most erudite men i ever met. Doris Nelson RN, was scrub nursein the JFK OR , and became the Head Nurse in PMH ER - and a person no one trifled with. With those and other I have had personal discussions of what went on encompassing the medical care of JFK and Connally, and Oswald and jack ruby.
JFK's Dallas death certificate was signed by the Chair of Neurosurgery - Kemp Clark. He was called, entered the OR, saw the head wound, and Said -"He's dead". Clark then left. Clark was famously closed mouthed. And was generally taciturn when asked about the subject.
There will always be conspiracy theories - and as Jack Ruby said in Parkland while dying of metastatic cancer -" I am the only one who knows the truth of the story". - loosely paraphrased. Jack Reynolds - radiology Professor - kept ruby's chest x ray showing his chest metastasis nodules in his desk to show new students.
We may well never know exactly how Oswald came to shoot JFK - but the evidence he did so is considerable. And no good evidence for another shooter. There are many interesting details, such as the "Pristine bullet" found on a Parkland gurney - that are difficult to explain.
No question there are still questions about both JFK and RFK and who was behind those assassinations.
I am not going to debate or argue conspiracy theories , nor put up with the name-calling that goes on on this site. If One wishes to post cogently and constructively on the topic - i welcome that.
All are entitled to an opinion.
I do suggest a visit to the 6th floor Museum - it is well done, sobering, almost a sanctuary atmosphere.Nnot expensive and well worth the visit - lots of artifacts and history there. I have visited several times. Originally Posted by oeb11
https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/20...remembers/amp/
BTW, the windshield was the only window up in the Lincoln. Didn’t have to shoot thru the windshield to shoot him in the forehead.
- oeb11
- 10-05-2019, 07:07 PM
Addend
Speculation.--The Presidential car had a small round bullet hole in the front windshield. This is evidence that a shot or shots were fired at the President from the front of the car.
Commission finding.--The windshield was not penetrated by any bullet. A small residue of lead was found on the inside surface of the windshield; on the outside of the windshield was a very small pattern of cracks immediately in front of the lead residue on the inside. The bullet from which this lead residue came was probably one of those that struck the President and therefore came from overhead and to the rear. Experts established that the abrasion in the windshield came from impact on the inside of the glass. 12
Speculation.--The throat wound sustained by the President was the result of a shot fired from the front according to doctors at Parkland Hospital.
Commission finding.--Doctors at Parkland Hospital originally believed that the throat wound could have been either an entry or exit wound, but they made no examination to determine entry and exit
-from the Warren Commission report"
The anterior neck wound was used as entry for a tracheostomy tube to breathe for JFK.
about the statement above - that the back of the head wound was an exit wound - where is the entrance wound - required for an exit wound. ?
The back of the head had a severe open brain wound. In the Zapruder film - Jackie is seen going on to the limo trunk to pick up a piece of JFK's brain that came to rest there.
That there was brain on the limo trunk does not necessarily speak to which way a bullet entered the head - from back or front.
There are many details in all the confusion that are difficult, and with the stress of the moment , and time, memories are not always 100% accurate. .
There are many questions that are difficult to answer.
Speculation.--The Presidential car had a small round bullet hole in the front windshield. This is evidence that a shot or shots were fired at the President from the front of the car.
Commission finding.--The windshield was not penetrated by any bullet. A small residue of lead was found on the inside surface of the windshield; on the outside of the windshield was a very small pattern of cracks immediately in front of the lead residue on the inside. The bullet from which this lead residue came was probably one of those that struck the President and therefore came from overhead and to the rear. Experts established that the abrasion in the windshield came from impact on the inside of the glass. 12
Speculation.--The throat wound sustained by the President was the result of a shot fired from the front according to doctors at Parkland Hospital.
Commission finding.--Doctors at Parkland Hospital originally believed that the throat wound could have been either an entry or exit wound, but they made no examination to determine entry and exit
-from the Warren Commission report"
The anterior neck wound was used as entry for a tracheostomy tube to breathe for JFK.
about the statement above - that the back of the head wound was an exit wound - where is the entrance wound - required for an exit wound. ?
The back of the head had a severe open brain wound. In the Zapruder film - Jackie is seen going on to the limo trunk to pick up a piece of JFK's brain that came to rest there.
That there was brain on the limo trunk does not necessarily speak to which way a bullet entered the head - from back or front.
There are many details in all the confusion that are difficult, and with the stress of the moment , and time, memories are not always 100% accurate. .
There are many questions that are difficult to answer.
- Levianon17
- 10-05-2019, 07:09 PM
You don’t have to read it. Just take an hour to listen to the debate between Wecht and BulosiI've heard of Wecht. I'll listen to it.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RvLURvnbFfo
One can believe who they want to believe. Both brilliant men. Bulosi is a Lawyer, Wecht is a Lawyer and a world renowned Forensic Pathologist. I believe Wecht. Originally Posted by bambino
- bambino
- 10-05-2019, 07:16 PM
AddendI just posted Dr McClellans own words. The back of his skull was blown off. It was an exit wound. All the windows of the car were down. Didn’t need to shoot thru the windshield to hit JFKs forehead.
Speculation.--The Presidential car had a small round bullet hole in the front windshield. This is evidence that a shot or shots were fired at the President from the front of the car.
Commission finding.--The windshield was not penetrated by any bullet. A small residue of lead was found on the inside surface of the windshield; on the outside of the windshield was a very small pattern of cracks immediately in front of the lead residue on the inside. The bullet from which this lead residue came was probably one of those that struck the President and therefore came from overhead and to the rear. Experts established that the abrasion in the windshield came from impact on the inside of the glass. 12
Speculation.--The throat wound sustained by the President was the result of a shot fired from the front according to doctors at Parkland Hospital.
Commission finding.--Doctors at Parkland Hospital originally believed that the throat wound could have been either an entry or exit wound, but they made no examination to determine entry and exit
-from the Warren Commission report"
The anterior neck wound was used as entry for a tracheostomy tube to breathe for JFK.
about the statement above - where is the entrance wound - required for an exit wound. ?
There are many details in all the confusion that are difficult, and with the stress of the moment , and time, memories are not always 100% accurate. .
There are many questions that are difficult to answer. Originally Posted by oeb11
- bambino
- 10-05-2019, 07:20 PM
- The_Waco_Kid
- 10-05-2019, 07:24 PM
Dr McClellan maintains the back of JFKs skull was blown away. He was holding his head. It was an exit wound that had to come from the grassy knoll.
https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/20...remembers/amp/
BTW, the windshield was the only window up in the Lincoln. Didn’t have to shoot thru the windshield to shoot him in the forehead. Originally Posted by bambino
doesn't the Zapruder film show Kennedy's head moving forward with the impact of the head shot? that indicates it came from behind wouldn't it? if it had come from the front you'd think his head would go backward.
again i'm not gotta make much effort at the moment to re-watch the Zapruder film or any of the many CGI enhancements right now because i'm watching the UGA- Tennessee game .. and the Ohio State Michigan game .. and it's half time so it's time for a food and booze run!
be back later!!
BAHHAHAHAAAAAAAAA
- winn dixie
- 10-05-2019, 07:34 PM
One belief that i find very plausible is the one that the secret service killed jfk! Been a long time but something like the men had just been issued new weapons they were unfamiliar with. And, well, one went off and...
Too lazy to look for link while football is on
Too lazy to look for link while football is on
- bambino
- 10-05-2019, 08:00 PM
doesn't the Zapruder film show Kennedy's head moving forward with the impact of the head shot? that indicates it came from behind wouldn't it? if it had come from the front you'd think his head would go backward.Review the film again. His head goes forward and then violently backwards. He was hit twice. Now, some theorists have said the backwards motion was a spasm from the first shot! Sure it was! Look at the “grassy knoll”. There’s a hill there with a wall. High enough to aim above the windshield or the the side windows which were down
again i'm not gotta make much effort at the moment to re-watch the Zapruder film or any of the many CGI enhancements right now because i'm watching the UGA- Tennessee game .. and the Ohio State Michigan game .. and it's half time so it's time for a food and booze run! Has there been another POTUS riding around in a convertible? With all the windows down?
be back later!!
BAHHAHAHAAAAAAAAA Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid
Was there another POTUS after that sitting in a convertible with all the windows down? How does that happen? Even in 1962?
- themystic
- 10-05-2019, 08:14 PM
OK - the Sixth floor Museum in the former School book Depository building encompasses both 6th and 7th floors. Oswald's window is set up as the day of the assassination - and plexiglass protected. One can go to the window directly above on the 7th floor and get a good view of what Oswald saw, except the trees are grown bigger than in 1963 - most everything else is the same. In 1963 the trees did not obstruct the view from the 6th floor window to the street below.that was a great post oeb11 Best I've ever seen from you, no mane calling or political tom foolery. the men involved appear to be spawns of the great generation. I'm not saying this is the end all be all answer. I have visited many time since the early 80s. I could have made the shot easily. great post oeb11 but you don't get an olive branch
Sixth floor Museum is a very good historical visit. Recommended.
None of the tapes - Zapruder, or any, show a glass intrusion from a shot into the limo. The limo carried the Kennedy's and Connollys directly to the ER entrance at Parkland hospital. With cop and investigators all over - a bullet hole in the limo windshield would have been noted.
No evidence of such.
Advocates of that theory - Please Show a photo or proof of the bullet hole through the limo windshield. Does not exist, IMHO.
I have been a colleague and first hand friend of almost all of the physicians involved in the care of Kennedy and Connally. And Oswald and Ruby. Except G. Tom Shires. He left for the chair of Surgery at U Washington Seattle.
Dr, Robert McClellland just passed away. One of the most erudite men i ever met. Doris Nelson RN, was scrub nursein the JFK OR , and became the Head Nurse in PMH ER - and a person no one trifled with. With those and other I have had personal discussions of what went on encompassing the medical care of JFK and Connally, and Oswald and jack ruby.
JFK's Dallas death certificate was signed by the Chair of Neurosurgery - Kemp Clark. He was called, entered the OR, saw the head wound, and Said -"He's dead". Clark then left. Clark was famously closed mouthed. And was generally taciturn when asked about the subject.
There will always be conspiracy theories - and as Jack Ruby said in Parkland while dying of metastatic cancer -" I am the only one who knows the truth of the story". - loosely paraphrased. Jack Reynolds - radiology Professor - kept ruby's chest x ray showing his chest metastasis nodules in his desk to show new students.
We may well never know exactly how Oswald came to shoot JFK - but the evidence he did so is considerable. And no good evidence for another shooter. There are many interesting details, such as the "Pristine bullet" found on a Parkland gurney - that are difficult to explain.
No question there are still questions about both JFK and RFK and who was behind those assassinations.
I am not going to debate or argue conspiracy theories , nor put up with the name-calling that goes on on this site. If One wishes to post cogently and constructively on the topic - i welcome that.
All are entitled to an opinion.
I do suggest a visit to the 6th floor Museum - it is well done, sobering, almost a sanctuary atmosphere.Nnot expensive and well worth the visit - lots of artifacts and history there. I have visited several times. Originally Posted by oeb11
- winn dixie
- 10-05-2019, 08:41 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortal_Error
This combined with the first shot by oswald is one theory that is the most plausible. It answers the multi shooter and other theories.
Now what actually put oswald up to it????????????
I believe we will never know!
This combined with the first shot by oswald is one theory that is the most plausible. It answers the multi shooter and other theories.
Now what actually put oswald up to it????????????
I believe we will never know!
- bambino
- 10-05-2019, 08:42 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortal_ErrorAnd then there’s this by eyewitnesses
This combined with the first shot by oswald is one theory that is the most plausible. It answers the multi shooter and other theories.
Now what actually put oswald up to it????????????
I believe we will never know! Originally Posted by winn dixie
https://www.smithsonianchannel.com/v...sination/22933