I purchased Premium Gasoline today for $2.50 a Gallon- Thank You President Obama!!!!

lustylad's Avatar
So Mr. DaliLama are you smarter than these 20 economists? Can you produce me some evidence instead of the words from Sarah Palin that drilling would lower gas prices? Originally Posted by wellendowed1911
When it comes to the oil market, Daniel Yergin is the smartest guy in the room. He says there is no question that the ramp-up of North American production in recent years has tipped the global market into oversupply and pushed down prices:



The Global Shakeout From Plunging Oil

New supply—rather than demand—is dominating the market, and OPEC has been caught by surprise.


By Daniel Yergin

Nov. 30, 2014 5:34 p.m. ET

The decision by members of the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countrieson Thursday not to cut production reflects a profound shift in the world oil market. The demand for oil—by China and other emerging economies—is no longer the dominant factor. Instead, the surge in U.S. oil production, bolstered by additional new supply from Canada, is decisive. This surge is on a scale that most oil exporters had not anticipated. The turmoil in prices, with spasmodic plunges over the past few days, will likely continue.

Since 2008—when fear of “peak oil,” after which global output would supposedly decline, was the dominant motif—U.S. oil production has risen 80%, to nine million barrels daily. The U.S. increase alone is greater than the output of every OPEC country except Saudi Arabia.

The world has experienced sudden supply gushers before. In the early 1930s, a flood of oil from East Texas drove prices down to 10 cents a barrel—and desperate gas station owners offered chickens as premiums to bring in customers. In the late 1950s, the rapidly swelling flow of Mideast oil led to price cuts that triggered the formation of OPEC.

And in the first half of the 1980s, a surge in oil from the North Sea, Alaska’s North Slope and Mexico caused prices to plunge to $10 a barrel. That posed a much greater crisis for OPEC than today: Over those same years, global demand fell by more than two million barrels a day owing to a deep recession, greater conservation and the switch to coal from oil for electricity generation. This time world oil demand is still growing, but weakly.

For the past three years, oil prices hovered around $100 a barrel as disruptions in Libya, South Sudan and elsewhere, and sanctions on Iranian exports, eerily balanced out the production increases from the U.S. and Canada. But the slower global economic growth that became apparent a few months ago was accompanied by weaker demand for oil, just when Libya suddenly quadrupled output to almost a million barrels a day. The result: Prices weakened in September and then tumbled.

OPEC’s decision last week reflects the conviction of its “have” nations—the Persian Gulf countries, with very large financial reserves—that cutting output would mean losing market share, particularly to Iran and to what they see as Iran-dominated Iraq. Instead, they have adopted a strategy of leaving it to the market for now; OPEC is waiting, in the words of Saudi Oil Minister Ali al-Naimi, for the oil market “to stabilize itself eventually.”

It is now clear that the new U.S. production is more resilient than anticipated. There has been a widespread view that at around $85 or $90 a barrel extracting “tight” oil from shale would no longer be economical. However, a new IHS analysis based on individual well data finds that 80% of new tight-oil production in 2015 would be economic between $50 and $69 a barrel. And companies will continue to improve technology and drive down costs.

True, with prices now near or below $70 a barrel, U.S. companies are looking hard at their investment plans—where and how much to cut or postpone. But it will take time for these decisions to affect supply. U.S. oil output will continue to rise in 2015.

The OPEC members in big trouble are the “have-nots”—those with small financial reserves and high government budgets. No country clamored more loudly for OPEC production cuts than Venezuela. Once an oil powerhouse, Venezuela depends on oil revenues for up to 65% of government spending. But its production has fallen by a third since 2000. Owing to gross mismanagement, Venezuela’s economy is already in chaos, its political system in crisis and unrest is mounting. And Venezuela would be the No. 1 loser if the Keystone XL pipeline is built, as production from Canadian oil sands would displace Venezuelan heavy oil from its largest single market, the U.S. Gulf Coast refineries.

Iran also clamored loudly for a production cut. High prices earlier this year give Tehran some budget cushion, but the government has little leeway for the next fiscal year. Iran depends on oil for half of its budget, and the country is already suffering from sanctions, which have cut its oil exports almost in half. Lower prices will prolong Iran’s recession.

A few days ago President Vladimir Putin said that Russia, the world’s largest oil producer and not a member of OPEC, is preparing for lower, even “catastrophic” oil prices. Oil provides over 40% of the Russian budget, but Mr. Putin has built up foreign exchange reserves worth a few hundred billion dollars, in part to cope with an oil-price collapse. Still, in an economy that is heavily dependent on imports of food and consumer goods, the falling value of the ruble means rising prices for imports, in effect slashing the incomes of consumers. Combined with the effect of sanctions from the Ukraine crisis, this means Russia is headed for recession.

The biggest impact of lower oil prices on future output may well be not in North America, where many people are looking for it, but in the rest of the world. Even before the collapse in prices, major oil and natural-gas companies had become preoccupied with the continually rising costs of developing new supply and were heeding the call from investors for “capital discipline.”

This price decline will turn this preoccupation into an obsession. The result will be a slowdown and reduction in major new investments around the world. The losers will be the nations trying to woo investment for new oil and natural-gas projects. Countries in Africa, Asia and Latin America are already finding that fewer companies are showing up to bid for new opportunities, and such bids that are proffered will be lower, perhaps much lower, than governments were expecting. The days are past when these countries can insist on very tough terms in taxes, royalties and other requirements that drive up costs and cause delay.

The drama is far from over. If prices remain close to their current level, OPEC members will likely come together again to reassess the market, especially as the stronger winter demand fades with the approach of spring. But a pickup in world economic growth, or new disruptions or geopolitical crises in the Middle East or North Africa or elsewhere, could send prices up again.

Mr. Yergin, vice chairman of IHS, is author of “The Quest: Energy, Security, and the Remaking of the Modern World” (Penguin Press, 2012).
CuteOldGuy's Avatar
I heard on the radio today that the precipitous drop in oil prices disturbingly mirrors the drop in 2008, just prior to the big crash. They were saying that the drop in prices denotes slowing economic activity, so this could portend another crash, likely more devastating than 2008.

I'm just passing this along for discussion. I haven't fact checked it, but it made sense. We will see.
Forget oil for a moment...

Obama promised that your health insurance would cost the same as your cell phone.
Remember that one? My insurance is much higher and my employer pays for much of it.
wellendowed1911's Avatar
Where do you come up with your numbers, limpdick? Do you even drive? Visit the pump lately? Gas prices have dropped by almost a buck a gallon in the past 5 months alone:

Average US per gallon gasoline price 6/30/14: $3.78
Average US per gallon gasoline price 12/1/14: $2.86

Decline in national avg gas price in last 5 months = $0.92 per gallon.

Pay attention. You're about as much of an oil price expert as Liberace was an expert on pussy. Originally Posted by lustylad

Why is the gas dropping dipshit? It's because of global demand and supply- the U.S has no control over oil prices- get that through your skull dipshit!!!!!
Forget oil for a moment...

Obama promised that your health insurance would cost the same as your cell phone.
Remember that one? My insurance is much higher and my employer pays for much of it. Originally Posted by gnadfly
My insurance stayed the same, and I kept my Dr and hospital. Just saying.
Prices are dropping DESPITE Obama's war on American energy independence.

And only numbskulls think President's can't influence world energy prices.


Why is the gas dropping dipshit? It's because of global demand and supply- the U.S has no control over oil prices- get that through your skull dipshit!!!!! Originally Posted by wellendowed1911
Yssup Rider's Avatar
I thought we agreed early on that the subject of this mildly sarcastic thread was the drop in gasoline prices. And, immediately came the cry that Obama has had no effect on the price.

Yet by no surprise, whir-LIE-turd has tried to make it into an Obama hate thread.

pathetic.
Yssup Rider's Avatar
Forget oil for a moment...

Obama promised that your health insurance would cost the same as your cell phone.
Remember that one? My insurance is much higher and my employer pays for much of it. Originally Posted by gnadfly
Start another thread, Hi Jack!
Gotyour6's Avatar
The funny part about simple economics is when gas prices drop everything else goes up.

Thanks Obama!!!
This is why you have been elected our Dipshit Emeritus......

The OP thanks Obama for low prices (in the thread title); but in your warped mind other's can't criticize. I am surprised you haven't played the race card in this thread yet.

BTW, who is the "we" who "agreed early on..."?




I thought we agreed early on that the subject of this mildly sarcastic thread was the drop in gasoline prices. And, immediately came the cry that Obama has had no effect on the price.

Yet by no surprise, whir-LIE-turd has tried to make it into an Obama hate thread.

pathetic. Originally Posted by Yssup Rider
TheDaliLama's Avatar
Why is the gas dropping dipshit? It's because of global demand and supply- the U.S has no control over oil prices- get that through your skull dipshit!!!!! Originally Posted by wellendowed1911
OMG...you're the one who doesn't get it. No one said a President can control the price. A President can influence the SUPPLY therefore having an influence on the price. He can also influence the DEMAND.

Why do you think they were considering opening our oil reserve at one time?

Had they done that at the time it would have dropped the price.
TheDaliLama's Avatar
Even if the U.S was to drill as much oil as possible - it would probably bring down oil prices 50 cents at the pump at the most- and 50 cents is being generous.
Once again....you don't "drill" oil. But at least you've conceded the point that more we produce the price can go down. Tell us again what the Obama Administration has done to increase the supply?

On one hand you say the President cant control the price and then on the other hand you tell us that it is supply and demand and then you give credit to the Obama administration for increasing the supply.

It's a losing argument for you.

BTW......50 cents is quite a lot my friend.
Sickpuppy's Avatar
If they would just spend the 42* cents taxes per gallon (avg fed/state) on rebuilding our roads and bridges, our vehicle maintenance and operating costs would decline. Based on 2013 national usage, that’s over $56* Billion in gas tax revenue per year wasted by the gov’t at the same time they want to RAISE other taxes to pay for rebuilding our infrastructure. Bend over.

http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=10&t=10
The Yergin piece posted earlier (post #61) is excellent, as is almost everything the author has written. I highly recommend his books and try to never miss anything he produces. In my view, his market and geostrategic understanding is as good as it gets.

I heard on the radio today that the precipitous drop in oil prices disturbingly mirrors the drop in 2008, just prior to the big crash. They were saying that the drop in prices denotes slowing economic activity, so this could portend another crash, likely more devastating than 2008.

I'm just passing this along for discussion. I haven't fact checked it, but it made sense. We will see. Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy
The oil market was a rather oddly behaving beast during the months leading up to the most critical time of the crisis. You may recall that oil spiked all the way into the 140s during the summer of 2008, and that at that time it had gotten carried away with speculative excess. Then Soros and several other very big players exploited the situation by shorting the market with a vengeance, after which it dropped like a stone. A couple of investors I know speculated that during a very short period of time, the man we sometimes refer to as "The Palindrome" made more money than he had at any time other than when he nearly wrecked the pound and the U.K.'s banking system in 1992. Then, of course, prices dropped even more after the September series of events. I think the oil market is comprised of so many moving parts that it's difficult to make the case that it's very good at presaging crashes and crises. If it were, I don't believe it would have spiked to record levels at a point well after it first became clear that the subprime bubble was taking on frightening proportions, and not long before the cataclysmic Lehman event sent shock waves reverberating through the financial system.

But what the oil market clearly is good at is reflecting expectations concerning global economic sentiment. If you look around the landscape, you see that a lot of people view things differently than they did six months or so ago. China has been slowing down, and isn't coming remotely close to maintaining its long-term trend rates of growth. Further, it now has to deal with a massive credit bubble of its own. Europe has weakened, and ECB policymakers are showing desperation. "Abenomics" is clearly not helping Japan very much (although I'm not sure why anyone thought it would). All of this adds up to expectations of continuing slack world demand.

Nevertheless, I think Yergin was right when he wrote that supply -- not demand -- is now the "dominant factor." I see this as sort of a "perfect storm," where the confluence of several factors -- mostly supply, but including demand elements -- have ganged up to cause surprisingly rapid price deterioration.

One thing's for sure -- 2015 is shaping up to be a very interesting year!
boardman's Avatar
The law of supply and demand is not that complicated.
Geo politics is...
The president makes decisions everyday that affects geo politics and therefor world supply of oil as does the leader of every other oil producing nation or group.
OPEC once had enough control of the oil supply that they alone could set the price and they did so in their best interest as OPEC. Now you have other countries producing enough that they have a say in the price. That's called competition.
Add to that the fact that Venezuela (an OPEC country and 9th in world production) and Russia (3rd in world production) are having economic issues as well as several other oil producing countries. Three or four years ago China( 5th in world production) was seen to be the big player in future oil consumption. Many countries ramped up to fill that expected demand and it just isn't as big as many though it was going to be because China is having their own internal problems caused in part by unfair trade practices and currency manipulation that is catching up to them. All these issues are big enough that each country with a surplus is using it's suppliy of oil to try to compensate for shortfalls in other areas to bolster their economies. It may be detrimental to them in the long run and it may hurt us in the short term but no one, not even the smartest guy in the room, has a complete handle on how each country's policies affect ever other country's economy. There are just too many variables in place.
I don't think Obama makes his policy decisions based on the price of oil. As a matter of fact I'm not even sure he takes that into consideration...but those policies can and do have an affect on other country's decisions and that can have an indirect affect on oil prices.
Gas prices were low when Bush left office because they were pumping as much oil out of Iraq as they could to help stimulate the Iraqi economy and pay for the war effort(supposedly). Once we left and Iraq became somewhat autonomous and more compliant with OPEC prices rose. For several months we had ISIS flooding the market with oil they were using to raise money. Again another economic policy set by someone that has enough oil to influence the market. They don't care what price they sell it for as long as they sell it so prices are low again.
We can debate who is to blame for ISIS's existence all the way back to 1975 or further. In actuality every President since then has done something to influence global supply through economic or political policies since then and therefor had an influence on prices.
Now, with all that said. Gasoline is a commodity that is produced from the commodity of oil. Gasoline is traded just as oil is traded so the price of gasoline is not a direct reflection on the current price of oil. It is a reflection of market values on any given day.
I buy Hydraulic oil, motor oil and varsol on a regular basis. I can get long term pricing on those products from any number of suppliers and plenty of warning if there is an expected price increase. Why? Because the use of those products is way more predictable than the amount of gasoline and heating oil that will be used by Americans in any one month.
Go back a few months in this forum and you'll see where we were arguing the problems with such a harsh winter having an affect on the supply of goods and GDP. If trucks weren't moving then diesel wasn't being burned. Could that be having an effect on the price of diesel now?
I know this post is rambling but that's just a sample of my thoughts on what controls the economy of fuel and it's a good indicator of how complex the situation is.