Why are we still putting ethanol in our cars?

Not needed, just marketing because of the constant lies being told about ethanol. You would have thought those would have been put too rest 20 years ago, but the lies just keep getting told. Originally Posted by farmstud60

There are a lot of lies about ethanol, and you have bought into all of them. It was nice for the farmers to get a price increase on corn, but as a fuel additive it sucks. It is prob why they have shit down 16 of them in the past years.

Amazing bow you people don't think, why do we give the oil companies free over seas security with the U.S Military and we don't call that a subsidy? Originally Posted by farmstud60

Please list the occurances of overseas security by the US Military for US oil companies. Thanks in advance.

The only US military security for oil companies I think was provided was during the Iraqi invasion and its aftermath. US military support in Nigeria? No. In Venezula? No. In Saudi Arabia? No. Libya? No. Kuwait? No. Countries that end with a -stan? No. At least none of these overtly. Originally Posted by gnadfly

Can't think of any examples, huh, farmstud?

Who the fuck do you think makes it possible for ships loaded with oil to sail the Seven Seas selling their product? Originally Posted by WTF

The US Navy isn't there specifically for US Oil Companies you moronic buffoon. You like to reference movies. What was the cargo in the Movie "Captain Phillips?"

What a moronic buffoon. Let the member who is making the claim defend it, you moronic buffoon.

Here's a novel idea; remove all subsidies from farmers.....................le t them grow crops that the market wants............ Originally Posted by Whirlaway

+1

Including commercial hemp!

COG and Whirrly are wealthy, and don't mind the price increase, by the way the subsidy for ethanol has been taken from the farmer.

Amazing how people have been so totally brainwashed by the oil companies.

Oh BTW, everything we have done in the Middle East has been about Oil.

Amazing how people have been so totally brainwashed by the Ethanol companies.

Oh BTW, everything we have done in the Middle East has been about Oil. Originally Posted by farmstud60

FIFY

Jeesh, the ignorance is rampant here, but at least people are being somewhat civil, which is quite a change for the forum!

You could burn food in a boiler, create steam, spin a turbine, and generate electricity. So, you are wrong again! Originally Posted by Jewish Lawyer

Some foods, but it is far more efficient to eat the food and turn the waste into fuel. That is what happens with ethanol from sugarcane in Brazil. They can extract the best sugar, process and sell it. That leaves lots of sugar for alcohol still. Then there is the waste which can be burned for heat and electricity to run the processing and stills. They get triple from one crops and it is perennial so it grows year round rather than one or two crops a year like corn.

OTOH, you have to process the corn, though it is field corn, not edible corn. Field corn is either fed to animals or broken down to make processed foods like Twinkies and your corn syrup in Coke and such. You can process the corn to make alcohol and have the protein from the corn left, but it is then wet and it has to be used immediately and locally or dried to make feed that can be shipped. Also, corn ethanol processors usually don't use the stalks and chaff for heat and electricity so it is far less efficient than they way they use sugar cane in Brazil.

There were big surplusses of corn so the lobbys figured out that we could add ethanol to gas. Same for biodiesel from soybeans, but it has 30% more energy per gallon than gas while ethanol has about 30% less energy.

Ethanol powers some classes of dragsters and is a fine fuel, but it does absorb water and can be run in the same engines as gas, but needs way different jetting. Also, it is corrosive so you need seals and hoses that will stand up to it. No biggie, but US manufacturers (and some others) didn't use these until 2000 or later. The jetting is the big deal though. Too lean fuel in a gas motor and Iyou can burn it up or it won't run.

Biodiesel is a whole different story. The LeMans winning Audi's run on it at 200+mph for 24 hours at a stretch. It too will eat up hoses and seals, but it will also clean and lubricate a fuel system.

Corn is an annual crop dull knife/dim bulb. Originally Posted by gnadfly

I think he mean sugar cane is perennial. Even if it isn't it is equatrorial and grows year round while corn grows in a much more temperate climate (even in the mountains of Mexico where it originated) and tends to be seasonal.

Amazing how people have been so totally brainwashed by the oil companies.

Oh BTW, everything we have done in the Middle East has been about Oil. Originally Posted by farmstud60

Yes, isn't it. Also, lots of intervention in African for oil. My favorite Marine, Smedley Butler wrote "War is a Racket" in the 1920's after serving for 50 years making the world safe for US business. Interesting read - http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html

I wanted to start a biodiesel business around 2006 and did tons of research so anything anybody else wants to know, I can probably answer.

It is the lobbyists and lobbies that make us have ethanol in our gas and biodiesel in our diesel. It isn't a bad thing and the biodiesel is probably way better than the ethanol, but both have their downsides as well.

The reason we are using gas and diesel is that there isn't a good alternative to liquid fuels yet and may never be. Public transportation, trains and ships can be used a lot more and probably liquid fuels can be close to 100% green in the next 20 to 50 years if we want, but we likely will use liquid fuels to some extent for a century or more if not pretty much forever.

First off Ethanol in Brazil comes from Sugar NOT switch cane which is a variety of sorghum/milo in a much taller length than we grow. It is a good crop but we have farmers that don't raise it and are ready to harvest it. Also, right now WE are exporting ethanol, not importing. Valero and Koch own many, many ethanol plants now. The subsidies NEVER went to the farmers but to the blenders of ethanol.

There are a lot of lies about ethanol, and you have bought into all of them. It was nice for the farmers to get a price increase on corn, but as a fuel additive it sucks. It is prob why they have shit down 16 of them in the past years. Originally Posted by i'va biggen

First off Ethanol in Brazil comes from Sugar NOT switch cane which is a variety of sorghum/milo in a much taller length than we grow. It is a good crop but we have farmers that don't raise it and are ready to harvest it. Also, right now WE are exporting ethanol, not importing. Valero and Koch own many, many ethanol plants now. The subsidies NEVER went to the farmers but to the blenders of ethanol.

First off Ethanol in Brazil comes from Sugar NOT switch cane which is a variety of sorghum/milo in a much taller length than we grow. It is a good crop but we have farmers that don't raise it and are ready to harvest it. Also, right now WE are exporting ethanol, not importing. Valero and Koch own many, many ethanol plants now. The subsidies NEVER went to the farmers but to the blenders of ethanol. Originally Posted by paulfrank00

That will be a shock to the ones getting a .50 subsidy when they first started up the plant in Ks. Plus I never said anything about switch cane. I wish they would export it all, and not use any here in the states.

Gee, someone doesn't know much about ethanol, considering a 10% blend has been burned in the midwest for over 30 years. Cars have run fine on that amount for 30 years. Even though there are fewer BTU's per gallon of ethanol, a 10% blend doesn't decrease fuel economy. Probably because it helps to add octane to the gasoline.

Ethanol is ethanol, doesn't really matter where it comes from.

Getting rid of the distillers grains from corn ethanol plants is not a big deal, and makes a great livestock feed, especially for cattle. Which is why Texas cattle feeders don't like ethanol, as the corn belt can make better use of the feed and lower the cost of gain for cattle in the corn belt.

LMAO

Gee, someone doesn't know much about ethanol, considering a 10% blend has been burned in the midwest for over 30 years. Cars have run fine on that amount for 30 years. Even though there are fewer BTU's per gallon of ethanol, a 10% blend doesn't decrease fuel economy. Probably because it helps to add octane to the gasoline.

Ethanol is ethanol, doesn't really matter where it comes from.

Getting rid of the distillers grains from corn ethanol plants is not a big deal, and makes a great livestock feed, especially for cattle. Which is why Texas cattle feeders don't like ethanol, as the corn belt can make better use of the feed and lower the cost of gain for cattle in the corn belt. Originally Posted by farmstud60

Octane retards flame propagation for the purposes of timing - the car expects a set amount to run efficiently - it isn't a case of the more the merrier.