FREE PALESTINE

Hoarding the refugees into a tiny place on the west bank not yet settled by Israelis and calling it a state will not solve anything.

The problem will be solved when the refugee's heirs return to their homes and become citizens of a single, secular, pluralistic nation that's not ruled by anyone with a terrorist history.

Hmmm, I know I've asked you this before but I cannot remember your answer. So are you willing to give up your home, piece of land or whatever property you have here in Texas to the "heirs" of the Comanche, Kiowa, Tonkawa etc?
I'd say they almost have a better claim than the Palestinians. They didn't leave "voluntarily" as the Palestinians did but were relocated through force. Seems only fair that if you support the Palestinians "right of return" that you support the same for our Native Indians?!

Hamas is the dominant movement by default because the PLO has sold out to the US in exchange for their leaders being given US-provided Swiss bank accounts.

Hamas is today what the PLO was in the 1970s - an expression of the desperation and rage of people made hopeless.*

*sort of like the Israelis were in the 1940s before independence. Originally Posted by theaustinescorts

Hopeless? Hmmm, I've been to numerous Indian reservations in this country. Prior to the Casino surge, THOSE places looked hopeless to me. Yet somehow they've managed to work their issues out through the court system for the last 50+ years and haven't resorted to suicide bombings or rocket attacks on civilians to get their point across.
Coming to think of....maybe THAT'S the answer. Maybe the Palestinians just need a few Mega Casinos to turn things around!!!

As the other posters above have said, the Palestinians have had their chance. The King of Jordan reached out his hand to them and it's well documented what thanks he received in return.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September_in_Jordan

The Lebanese reached out and look at the problems the Palestinians brought that country.
You can play them up to be the "poor victim" all you want but the fact is, they have had MANY chances over the years to get a place of their own. It is their own stubbornness, greed, infighting and allowing themselves to be manipulated by the various Arab and Persian powers that have gotten them to the place they are today.

Hopeless? Hmmm, I've been to numerous Indian reservations in this country. Prior to the Casino surge, THOSE places looked hopeless to me. Yet somehow they've managed to work their issues out through the court system for the last 50+ years and haven't resorted to suicide bombings or rocket attacks on civilians to get their point across.
Coming to think of....maybe THAT'S the answer. Maybe the Palestinians just need a few Mega Casinos to turn things around!!!

As the other posters above have said, the Palestinians have had their chance. The King of Jordan reached out his hand to them and it's well documented what thanks he received in return.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September_in_Jordan

The Lebanese reached out and look at the problems the Palestinians brought that country.
You can play them up to be the "poor victim" all you want but the fact is, they have had MANY chances over the years to get a place of their own. It is their own stubbornness, greed, infighting and allowing themselves to be manipulated by the various Arab and Persian powers that have gotten them to the place they are today. Originally Posted by DTorrchia

I think you're seeing things in my posts that aren't really there.

I never referred to the Palestinian Arabs as noble, virtuous, or "poor victims" compared to their conquerers.

I'm speaking of the real world here, not melodrama, or the kind of one-sided views the US media has generated here over the last fourty years.*

The Palestinians are just as imperfect as the Israelis, but it's the Israelis who are culpable of the particular crimes of using terror and force to remove someone from their homes so they could have them for their own country. That's all.

And frankly I wouldn't care anything about the topic if it weren't for the fact that American opinion has been distorted about the issue, and our interests in the region are horribly damaged by these misconceptions.

There is no parallel between the Palestinian Arabs and the natives of America.

Sorry to all the antropologists out there, but advanced cultures can actually be doing a favor to primative ones when they conquere them, and this is the reason why the European conquest of the native Americans is not generally viewed as malignant. Personally I wish the Europeans had never granted independence to any of the present countries of Africa, for example. Every country I've been to in Africa has people who would have been much better off governed by a colonial power than their own primative despots, for whom "might is right" is the only credo known in their primative societies. I don't care what anthropoligists claim, primative societies have no institutions or values which are equivalent to the European ideals of justice, compassion, and empathy to one's fellow man.

But Arab culture is by no means primative.

The Palestinian Arabs are far worse off living as third-class citizens in Hashimite-ruled Jordan, or Lebanon, or the refugee camps in Gaza or the west bank of the Jordan river.

They're a cultured though very imperfect people like ourselves, and they deserve to live out their very imperfect lives in the homes that were stolen from them.

*For the first twenty years of Israel's existence the US media was evenhanded, but that changed. As the Palestinian leadership embraced dramatic terror tactics in the 1970s US pundits forgot about Israeli terror and crimes completely and focused only on those of the Arabs.

The Palestinians are just as imperfect as the Israelis, but it's the Israelis who are culpable of the particular crimes of using terror and force to remove someone from their homes so they could have it for their own country. That's all.

And frankly I wouldn't care anything about the topic if it weren't Originally Posted by theaustinescorts

Riiiight!

There is no parallel between the Palestinian Arabs and the natives of America.

Sorry to all the antropologists out there, but advanced cultures can actually be doing a favor to primative ones when they conquere them, and this is the reason why the European conquest of the native Americans is not generally viewed as malignant. Personally I wish the Europeans had never granted independence to any of the present countries of Africa, for example. Every country I've been to in Africa has people who would have been much better off governed by a colonial power than their own primative despots, for whom "might is right" is the only credo known in their primative societies. I don't care what anthropoligists claim, primative societies have no institutions or values which are equivalent to the European ideals of justice, compassion, and empathy to one's fellow man.

The Palestinian Arabs are far worse off living as third-class citizens in Hashimite-ruled Jordan, or Lebanon, or the refugee camps in Gaza or the west bank of the Jordan river.

They're a cultured though very imperfect people like ourselves, and they deserve to live out their very imperfect lives in the homes that were stolen from them.

*For the first twenty years of Israel's existence the US media was evenhanded, but that changed. As the Palestinian leadership embraced dramatic terror tactics in the 1970s US pundits forgot about Israeli terror and crimes completely and focused only on those of the Arabs. Originally Posted by theaustinescorts

Well, I think you pretty much laid out your thought process above. It is quite frankly one of the most ignorant things I've ever read.

Sorry -- meant to start a new thread.

Copied post there.

Well, I think you pretty much laid out your thought process above. It is quite frankly one of the most ignorant things I've ever read. Originally Posted by DTorrchia

I'm not surprised you'd unmask yourself as an apologist for barbarism and savagry given your prediliction for glorifying warfare and violence.

Up until only the most recent past all civilizations had an awareness of what made themselves profoundly different than savages.

The politically-correct doctrine that all peoples are equivalent regardless how primative they are is at odds with the self-evident truths of civilized values.

I told a Palestinian friend of mine that; although, the land of Israel does not belong to his people I still feel compassionate for them because they are nothing more than puppets for all sides. He agreed. I read once that when Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait and Arafat sided with Hussein, the Kuwaitis deported 100K Palestinians from Kuwait.

Good for the Kuwaitis. Fuck the Palestinians.

The actual number of Palestinians expelled from Kuwait was over 450K. Prior to the Iraq invasion they made up 30% of Kuwait's population. Today they make up less then 3% of the population there. The Palestinians are responsible for their own problems. It's not possible to help someone who will not help themselves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palesti...on_from_Kuwait

More evidence on how the Israelis are constantly being blamed for the Palestinians problems when other Arab nations have done worse. The Israelis are not expelling the Palestinians, but offering them the opportunity to live besides the Jews in peace and harmony.

If Mexico invaded Texas and stole your home from you because Texas was once theirs what would you think? How would you feel if a family from Monterry was now living in your house?

Would you call it solved if they offered to give you Brewster County "back" as your new homeland?

Peace and harmony?

ps..at one point Hitler toyed with the idea of creating a national homeland for all the worlds Jews....on Madgascar.

If Mexico invaded Texas and stole your home from you because Texas was once theirs what would you think? How would you feel if a family from Monterry was now living in your house?. Originally Posted by theaustinescorts

The funny thing is that a Mexican family is living in the house I grew up in with no relation to my family.

Would you call it solved if they offered to give you Brewster County "back" as your new homeland?

Peace and harmony?

ps..at one point Hitler toyed with the idea of creating a national homeland for all the worlds Jews....on Madgascar. Originally Posted by theaustinescorts

I thought we had already discussed the Mexico and Texas connection. If they want it they'll have to take it, but not without a fight.

I think you are still way out there. Your claims do not fit in with reality which is why you can't win this argument.

Look, all is not lost, your agency still has some of the best looking chicks, sure overpriced, but still a lot hotter then a lot of the chicks in this board.

ps..at one point Hitler toyed with the idea of creating a national homeland for all the worlds Jews....on Madgascar. Originally Posted by theaustinescorts

I see you have stooped to a new low of hatred as you get your tail kicked by others in this debate.

Guess what, he ( Hitler) failed! He may have murdered millions but in the end he shot/poisened himself like a coward ( much like suicide bombings) Germany lost, he failed. As will the bid for the Palestinian state. Simply put, ain't happening.

Just look up at the Scoreboard.

Israel: 1
'Palestine': 0

Get used to a shutout, it won't be 1-1 nor will it ever be 2-1 either side.

And as time goes on, the computers you use today will only be perfected by the Israelis, enjoy the use of them

yay jews. Why do you need computers? just use that old Kabahla magic on us.

yay jews. Why do you need computers? just use that old Kabahla magic on us. Originally Posted by S O B

Now where's that spell to make YOU disappear? I know it's somewhere here...

Please knock off the racebaiting... you speak with the wit and intelligence of a failed suicide bomber, SOB. Please complete your training and give it another try!