Update 5 Star Hotel Photographer Dilema

Of note at the bottom of the page is this about who owns what:
http://www.lithiumpicnic.com/site/content/view/19/

ASSUMPTIONS

Half of the project cost is due before the shoot to reserve the booking. Cancellations are non-refundable.

All images delivered electronically unless other arrangements are made in advance.

Client does not get a disc of images or option to review all images from the shoot.

Most of my shoots are "model released shoots" and I retain ownership of copyright while granting full usage rights to the models and clients. If you need to retain the copyright and prefer or prefer for the work to remain private you must notify me prior to the shoot.

I second Becky's comments. Shortly after my client arrives and we've made a toast to success over a lil' bubbly, I sit down with her and go over the contract - bullet point by bullet point. She must then initial each and every point, hand write in the name of the package that she is purchasing and the price. She must sign at the bottom stating that she understands all and has received her copy. Before I became a professional photographer, I owned a finance company for 15 years. Talk about contracts? A client could have your ass if they didn't understand something.

Live and learn, ladies. READ your contract.

Live and learn, ladies. READ your contract. Originally Posted by Meeshee

Word!

Meeshee, that sounds like a VERY professional approach -- particularly because I suspect that many of your clients have never dealt with these issues before.

Word!

Meeshee, that sounds like a VERY professional approach -- particularly because I suspect that many of your clients have never dealt with these issues before. Originally Posted by pjorourke

Thanks. The point is that a lady should never have to deal with such issues.But it takes effort on both sides. Every lady should be looking out for herself as a level of responsibility. All too often, no one else is going to do it for her. However, as a woman myself, I try to hold the hands of my clients as best I can.

Thanks. The point is that a lady should never have to deal with such issues.But it takes effort on both sides. Every lady should be looking out for herself as a level of responsibility. All too often, no one else is going to do it for her. However, as a woman myself, I try to hold the hands of my clients as best I can. Originally Posted by Meeshee

At the risk of piling on, this is the way to do things....

Not the same but similar: I have a business that uses a large number of young (under 25) independent contractors. I have everyone involved in recruiting go thru the agreement as well as a list of expectations bullet point by bullet point with the prospective contractor. It would be easier to just say read it and sign it, but in the long run really saves time, effort and heartache as misunderstandings are minimized.

That's the only way!

While yes, everyone should always read and amend any contract before they sign, escorts generally aren't told that they have any rights at all. Photographers and web designers in this business routinely bully the ladies, especially if these service-people are popular (not that all popular ones are bullies). It's certainly not in their best interests to give the lady more rights and respect than she "deserves." It should also be expected that a professional photographer legally covers their own ass as far as permissions and things go.

One of my photographers and I got kicked out of a location in Dallas -- and it would've been a really cool shoot. We asked for permission and they did not give it. (We had already asked permission to shoot from the people who were nearby.) A maddening experience that I Tweeted about but...saved both of us from headaches later on.

Taking care of your Ps and Qs before a shoot begins means less headache later. Model releases/work contracts don't require a lawyer to sign, only that time is taken to read and understand what is said. There should never be any implication -- everything should be spelled out there. And yes, as the model/client you have every right to amend the contract to your satisfaction before signing. (The photographer has the right not to agree to work with you but unless they're a major primadonna, I'm sure a mutually-beneficial compromise can be reached.)

Tooting my own horn, I cover copyrights, photographers and contracts in Book 2. And have written a couple posts on it on my book's blog. A friend in another country is starting to work with a photographer -- but she's a smart, wary cookie and after doing her research, has amended the model release to suit both her and the photographer's needs: her privacy is protected and he still gets photos to put in his portfolio.

One more word: a handshake is not a contract and will not hold up in court. Insist on a piece of paper detailing the transaction that you both sign and retain a copy of.

And MeeShee -- I think you just won a lot of fans! I know I'm impressed.

XX
Amanda


PS: And frankly, I've got to admit that I'm hoping to see the demise of overly-airbrushed photos since this photographer is apparently packing up shop.

It's refreshing to hear words of wisdom from a master writer who's an expert in her field. Thanks, Amanda.

I've read your first book and plan to order the next 2. I'm anxious to read the second one as you talk about issues related to photography. Obviously, I'm a photographer but the one I read is quite insightful. I even learned a few tips on personal hygene.

On the photoshop dilemma: I think we touched on this topic if not in this thread then another. Sometimes a photographer is divided between where to draw the line between extra polishing and satisfying the client. The image below required no polishing.

Food for thought...

Great pic! The model looks like she is having so much fun. (is she free tonight?)

Great pic! The model looks like she is having so much fun. (is she free tonight?) Originally Posted by SR Only

SR you whore!

SR you whore! Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius

What made you think I was anything but?

I am not sure you would make it past my extensive screening process. Remember any money exchanged is for my companionship and time. Anything else is between two consenting adults.

Meeshee,

Heck no, that photo doesn't need retouching! That's what a good photographer does. But it doesn't mean you can fight against the tidal wave of insecurities most of us women have. I practically make my photographers hold my hand through a session -- it's mentally-excruciating for me. (Being a model has never appealed to me.) I'm guessing you have to sit there and tell some of your clients that their photos look perfectly fine as they are.

Zapping zits is one thing; completely giving someone a new skin and altering the shape of the body is quite another. Suze Randall is someone I'd love to work with because she does everything with lighting/posing and no retouching (or used to be Photoshop-free). I believe her daughter shoots in the same style.

Glad you enjoyed my first book! #2 might give you some insight since it's written from the model/client's perspective. I have a degree in photography but I'm beginning to think one of the reasons I didn't pursue it is because I wasn't willing to subject other people to being photographed.

XX
Amanda

Amanda -

I'm accustomed to hand holding. Actually, I wouldn't have it any other way. It's just my style. I suppose if Photoshop didn't exist, both photographers and clients would have no choice but to rely upon the organic look like in the olden days. Additional responsibility would then be weighted upon the photographer's shoulders by those who perhaps don't look as 'perfect' as they'd like to look in the end result that is the image. Even an uber talented photographer cannot work miracles. I've shot photos of women where the angles and lighting did work miracles and still the photos were questioned. Where to draw or 'shoot' the line as it were. Go figure.

I've seen many photos of women that were totally untouched. Such a style glorifies the beauty of a woman's imperfections in a Picassoesque style of realism. I actually prefer an artistic style that celebrates the imperfections of a woman's body that I find quite exhilarating. But, then again, maybe I'm a freak. lol. That's the abstract side of me.

A gentleman who prefers a beautiful BBW I suspect does not want to see her body totally 'Shopped to the point of unrecognizibility when they meet. Yet, she may desire to have her photos contoured to her liking.

One of my favorite modern art photographers is Naomi Fisher - www.naomifisher.net. I know her from Miami and her work is sharp, edgy, gritty and R A W. There you go. But definitely not boudoir. Her works have quadrupled in the last 5 years.

However, I suspect that if as a photographer, if I didn't practice at least a smidgen of 'Shop, I'd have no business. lol. Those particular clients might critique their images in a less than favorable way.


I have worked with a few clients who have told me point blank to do whatever I have to do to make them look beautiful. This is the dychotomy that a photographer may face. Thus, the margins for my use of photoshop have progressively narrowed. If the end product of an image does not recognize a woman when she walks through the door, then it's over-shopped.

One of my favorite modern art photographers is Naomi Fisher - www.naomifisher.net. I know her from Miami and her work is sharp, edgy, gritty and R A W. There you go. But definitely not boudoir. Her works have quadrupled in the last 5 years. Originally Posted by Meeshee

Talented and expressive stuff.

As for Naomi Fisher I think her actual paintings are better than her photography.

Her photo's of women in fake furs is a good example of what doesn't work it looks like a bad home made film when it comes to props and costume.
Jump over to photo.net and you will find a lot of fairly good photographers
like:
http://photo.net/photodb/member-phot...to_id=10498614
http://photo.net/photodb/member-photos?photo_id=9136357
http://photo.net/photodb/member-photos?photo_id=8766695