CONDOMNATION BBFS

The view that the practice is rampant because it is mentioned in one provider's ad(s) and has been mentioned is some reviews (which I can't verify since I don't have BCD access and am not interested in since I don't hobby) seems rather alarmist. Especially the idea that it may be due to economic competition making more and more and more and more and more girls into BBFS practitioners.

Oh, I think the economic incentive is there, but not in offering BBFS, rather in spreading rumors that so-and-so offers BBFS. In the 15 years since I've either hobbied or participated on hobby boards there are a select few accusations/allegations that do wonders for tainting a reputation and scaring off a provider's clientele that are hard to overcome: BBFS, STDs, drug abuse/addiction, having a pimp, going psycho/stalker/outing somebody. In more competitive times, it seems that more and more of those sorts of rumors fly around.

Sometimes the motive to hurt somebody's business is because of a personal grudge or vendetta (whether it's a hobbyist, provider or agency spreading the rumor). Sometimes it's for someone's financial benefit as the beneficiary gains clientele that the slandered person(s) lose(s) (whether it's by a provider, agency, or a hobbyist seeking to curry favor with a provider or agency).

Assuming it's a one-on-one session and not a threesome or foursome or more, the only people that absolutely know for a fact what occurred, BBFS or CFS, are the parties in question. Either the giving or receiving party has to out both of them. Anything else is a rumor. It's not even a he said/she said, it's a somebody said.

Why would a hobbyist lie about getting BBFS in a review? Well, maybe he wanted it, but didn't get it so he's gonna say he got it to mess with the provider's world. Guys that disapprove won't see her and guys that want it will book with her expecting it, get disappointed, perhaps leading to bad reviews. Plus, after the public flogging, those that are part of the BBFS subculture may befriend him and point him to where he can get BBFS. All he has to do to see other providers is never identify himself by the handle that posted the BBFS review.

Why would a hobbyist spread rumors about knowing that so-and-so barebacks? Well, he could have a grudge or think he's doing his favorite provider a favor by hurting her competition. Or it might not even be about the act of BBFS or even a grudge about the provider. Some people will lie for the attention whether it's good or bad, whether other people get hurt or not. Some want others to think that they're "in the loop" and privy to all sorts of confidential information. If it blows up in their face, so what? They can reinvent themselves with another handle. This sort of juvenile attention-seeking may sound nuts, but there are plenty of people in the civilian world that will use their real names and claim to know what really happened at Roswell, to have seen the Loch Ness Monster or Bigfoot to stroke their ego and need for attention. Do you really think there are none of them in the hobby, especially when they can hide behind an anonymous internet handle?

Hell, some hobbyists and providers may spread rumors just because they like to see all the commotion and all the fussing it causes. Like Alfred tells Bruce Wayne in The Dark Knight: "Some men just want to see the world burn."

Everybody knows BBFS happens. Perhaps for a variety of reasons. But hidden agendas also happen and for a variety of reasons as well. My skeptical nature leads me to believe that hidden agenda-driven rumor mills are much more common than BBFS.

What, in my post, would lead you to the conclusion that I support whatever people do and would follow suit? Originally Posted by Rand Al'Thor

These:

It's unfair to categorically deny "it feels good" as a reason for doing BB. . . Originally Posted by Rand Al'Thor

I could make the point that if I am a consenting adult who knows and consents to eating said burger that someone went BB with, then it should be fine. Originally Posted by Rand Al'Thor

We all draw our lines based on our own comfort levels. Some base it on what may be the accepted norm in this subculture. Originally Posted by Rand Al'Thor

As we see sexual preferences differ wildly even in this small community, we will see risk aversion vary. Originally Posted by Rand Al'Thor

I am sorry, that was lazy of me. I should have been more clear rather than let sarcasm make my point alone.

It was the rampant moral pluralism in the post I was objecting to:

My sarcasm was an attempt to demonstrate how silly moral pluralism is as a logical argument.

As many mother and fathers have said to their kids: "Even if every damn fool in the neighborhood jumped off that bridge would you?" Originally Posted by ANONONE

No, that's a stupid example. You're not objecting on a moral basis to behavior risky to oneself, but rather to others.

So; how big a threat is it from the involved parties to a later covered client of hers? From a provider who advertises bareback , say? From a client who takes her up on her offer?



Heh. She offered her honor, he honored her offer; all night he was on her and off her.

You're not objecting on a moral basis to behavior risky to oneself, but rather to others. Originally Posted by 78704

Well, actually it is risky to the individual and the collective group, by why start splitting hairs now?

I guess this is very similar to the debate on smoking. The habit impacts the health of the individual doing it, but the consequences of the personal choice impacts others, whether that be via second-hand smoke, or the higher health costs and taxes we all endure because people exercised the right to enjoy themselves even it was not healthy for them, or those around them.

These: Originally Posted by ANONONE

That's the conclusion you draw from those quotes.

Here's a clue, I will support every fool in your neighborhood's right to jump off said bridge. I will only follow if there is compelling reason for me to jump. I do not expect or demand anyone else to jump regardless of if I do it or not.

Here's a clue, I will support every fool in your neighborhood's right to jump off said bridge. I will only follow if there is compelling reason for me to jump. I do not expect or demand anyone else to jump regardless of if I do it or not. Originally Posted by Rand Al'Thor

Are you going to pay all of their hospital bills? (see above smoking debate reference)

Do you feel the same way, if you are sitting in the culvert below the bridge trying to fish as these fools leap and fall on your head? (sometimes the actions of others impact your own enjoyment)

At least one in four U.S. teenage girls has a sexually transmitted disease,[19] a CDC study found.[20] Among girls who admitted ever having sex, the rate was 40%.[21]

http://www.google.com/publicdata/exp...48&hl=en&dl=en

Gonorrhea rate among Texas males has fallen from over 500 per 100k in 1984 to 127 per 100k in 2008; interesting stuff you can find noodling around wikipedia and google.

Are you going to pay all of their hospital bills? (see above smoking debate reference)

All? No. Some? Yeah; consequence of living in a socialist state. Do you really think you have a moral obligation never to take any risk because government taxes citizenry?

Do you feel the same way, if you are sitting in the culvert below the bridge trying to fish as these fools leap and fall on your head? (sometimes the actions of others impact your own enjoyment) Originally Posted by ANONONE

If you pick the bridge-jumping culvert to fish in then the responsibility is also partly yours, right?

BBFS is a fact of life. its like murder, rape or molestation in the fact that it exists and that by accepting it as a matter of fact we neither condone it or have become complacent with it. just like the waiter who must "wash hands before returning to work" we trust that he does,and even if we dont ,we cannot put a camera in there to watch him do it. Personal freedoms will always supercede the needs of the group, even if it become a danger to the whole society. although we all would love to know who is asking for and who is providing BBFS it is still a matter of what goes on between two consenting adults. it doesnt make it right or safe or even smart, but we cannot bring cameras into the privacy of any individuals bedroom.. all any of us can do ,is assume anyone we are with is engaging in or has been with someone who has engaged in BBFS, and be vigilant in our own safety practices. we all assume a certain amount of risk being in this hobby world of ours, and whether we accpt that risk or leave is up to each persons comfort level.what isnt a choice for any of us is to deny that its there or to assume we can ask people to respect our fears and concerns. thats a very nice thought but i think Utopia is a little further south of a us and it just aint gonna happen. Brttany im sorry to say this, but there are gonna be people who engage in BBFS who will call you now just cuz they feel the need to push your personal boundries. i dont think its right or fair , but there are bad apples in every society. Please be careful. i wanna see you around here for a long long time

This perhaps the single most cogent remark I've ever seen on this topic.

You are not going to change their behaviour. But, you will change their willingness to be honest. Originally Posted by dearhunter

The full post is at:

http://www.eccie.net/showpost.php?p=444636&postcount=42

The behavior has been around before any of us ever stepped into this hobby. It will go on after we've left it. If it can't be eliminated, just how far underground is the community willing to drive it in a witch hunt for the sake of a false sense of security? People you see BCD that engage in BBFS will be doing it even more secretly than they do now to avoid the bile and backlash and we'll all have absolutely zero idea of what our risk really is.

Try that on for size as part of the Law of Unintended Consequences.

Interesting discussions so far. Some on point and valid, others attempting to divert discussions. I find the the following points interesting and am attempting to understand them:

bbfs is not scary as bbfs has been going on forever
condoms deprive me of the expected sensations
it's not as dangerous for the males as it's commonly portrayed
She likes the feel of skin on skin and reserves it for a group of gents she feels are low risk
It's the responsibility of each person to determine how much risk they wish to open themselves up to, act accordingly, and respect the wishes of their partner as well.

bbfs is scary, especially in the hobby. an active provider and hobbyest expand the potential contact pool at an almost geometric rate. The 2008 statistics rank texas the 12th highest state for people with hiv/aids - 12 people per 100,000 and chlamydia is at 760 people per 100,000 population.

Condoms and sensitivity - spend a little time here reading some of the threads about condoms, I believe there was one sight mentioned where you can custom order them based on your specific measurements. They come in ultra-thin or thin that really do work!

Not as dangerous for us men. back to the potential exposure rate, 1 lady advertising bbfs had 6 reviews, of which those 6 reviews saw 24 different girls who then saw 71 different men. All based on reviews her in Austin. Simple enough research. So the rate increases times 3 each level down, 1 person has now, at the 4th generation of contacts impacts approximately 240 girls and the 5th generation impacts 720 men....blah blah blah.

Risk, or the determination of low risk. Wow, how do you look at someone and just know they are low risk? You never know what someone does the remaining 23 hours left in the day after your 1 hour session (men or women, here). Cleanliness of appearance and living quarters can be a good start. Do they manage money well or have money to spend? Good clue. How's the car they drive? runs good? The typical at-risk people for complicating lives with std's, specifically hiv/aids, tend to have other risky habits as well which over-rides their priorities to maintain an orderly, productive lifestyle. Not saying you have to be a neat freak or super rich, but you can tell a lot by someone when you visit their house or look at their car or just how they take care of themselves.

The "to each their own" mentality is nice, but you have to remember that we are all in this hobby together! What you do has a ripple affect that can impact 1000's of people. I'd honestly like it if people (men and women) that hobby bb would just be up front about it so others could make informed decisions.

So, to answer the initial questions, would I hobby or lobby for bbfs? No. Besides the risks of disease I also worry about unwanted pregnancies and the overall level of intimacy with bbfs. Don't want a disease or a baby. Yes, in a committed relationship where the risk of babies wasn't in play, bbfs is very intimate and very enjoyable. yes, it is going on and yes accidents happen, but to blatantly pursue or offer it? Not for me, thanks.

* It's the responsibility of each person to determine how much risk they wish to open themselves up to, act accordingly, and respect the wishes of their partner as well. Originally Posted by Vyt

Just to be clear, I did not mean by this "everything everyone wants to do is OK", but more "if your partner isn't OK with your willingness to push boundaries, then do not pressure him/her into pushing them."

I personally believe that BBFS in a world where HIV exists is suicidal. Clearly, YMMV.

I love BBFS in my personal life... why?
Because it feels sooooo gooood.

Would I do BBFS in my hobby life?
Maybe, but I haven't met anyone yet that I would be willing to try it with.

Why would I risk it?
Because it feels soooo goood, and as a straight man I am far less likely to get any STD's. I figure that any woman who chooses to provide is willing to accept any risk that she subjects herself to.

Bottom line... if the convo of BBFS scares you, then you don't need to be in this hobby.



All this disease talk sure makes FBSM seem like a much better/safer option

LF

Because it feels soooo goood, and as a straight man I am far less likely to get any STD's

Just keep telling yourself that