We don't need no stinking papers

If people weren't prejudiced against hispanics already, they probably will be after reading carkido's posts.

In Bexar County, back when the Democrats ran everything unanimously, vegetable trucks were used to haul voters from the South and West sides who were gathered by the block captains who passed out the list of candidates to be selected at the polls. After "pulling the lever" the obedient voters were rewarded with beer and food at one of the local government maintained parks in their area.

It was a remarkable show of the benefits of ............ refreshments.

Every two years, food and beer. In between, nada. Originally Posted by LexusLover

>> and where I was born the dead voted for both parties,
>> corruption is currently the bedrock of both parties.
>> read about Ethics charges now, and back when the repubs were in charge, no difference.

>> and where I was born .... Originally Posted by live4fun

You must be an Obaminable speech writer or political strategist..... it seems that the current "chant" to explain the current administration's incompentence is .... Bush and/or the Republicans.

It is not a defense to bank robbery ......

...... that the guy down the street does it, also.

When someone runs for election based on bringing the country together, overcoming devisiveness, and bilateral efforts .... one does not engage in pointing fingers and making cute insulting remarks about the "other side."

Now, having said that, my point is:

Opening the flood gates along our Southern borders and granting those who sneak into the country the reward of citizenship, creates additional votes that can be "packaged" and "delivered" at election time to the person or party responsible for "allowing" them to enter into the country ILLEGALLY, and "block voting" has been practiced in the Hispanic communities in Texas when the Democrats were controlling the voting booths and the Governor's Mansion ... and the Hispanics who followed along like sheep to "repay" the "obligation" were for the most part ignored between elections as far as their daily lives are concerned.

The same is happening as we post in the Black communities in this country, who supported Obaminable in high numbers. The stimulus money did not go to improve their communities ... the biggest checks went to improve the auto industry and financial institutions from which they cannot afford vehicles or obtain loans to buy them.

And FYI: I have considered myself a Democrat and still do, but by today's "labeling" I am probably in that bunch called independents.

Allowing the intrusions into Arizona to continue is outrageous, and standing by for political reasons is dispicable. He is fixing to do it to the Gulf region, with the cover of the Northeastern media that could give a rat's ass about the South!

Please do not forget that YOUR MAN in the White House "organized" the removal of asbestos insulation in lower income multifamily housing in Chicago, but did NOT replace the insulation afterwards. In other words: He ain't a finisher! He gets the photo op, as in on the beaches of the Gulf, but then he is off to his "up East" vacation.

If people weren't prejudiced against hispanics already, they probably will be after reading carkido's posts. Originally Posted by Tony Montana

Let me see if you can understand where I'm coming from which I doubt.
When I was a child my mother who was born and raised in Matagorda County .Bay City.told me this story about how she had a brother who has born a blue baby and needed to be place in a imcubator but the incubators were only to be used for whites only so the Doctors just let the baby suffucate which was legal by the way.
The baby was put to death for being born with brown skin and brown eye's.
When I was a litte kid my family moved into a pre-dominately white neighborhood.
The white kids in the neighborhood would ride there bikes in front of my family's house and called us wetb_cks diry ass mexicans and the white kids of course being bigger and older than me well when they caught me by myself beat me.
So I doubt DTL, Gnadfly, or Lexuslover have ever been treated this way so I doubt they will ever change how they see people of a different color than they are.
Was watching the news now they want to change the 14 amendment in the Constitution.
US citizenship would not be automatically given if you are born here.
Good ole boys hard at work.
There scared of all those votes going in the so called wrong direction.

Trail of tears where many men, women, and children Native Americans were forced to march to march to there deaths.
In the late 1800's to early 1900's over 400 Mexican Nationals and Mexican -Americans were lynched mostly done by the Texas Rangers.
The slavery of millions of African Americans which also many were lynched.
To the imprisonment of millions of Japanese Americans during World War Two.
Yet during World War 2 and wars to come afterwards all these different groups defended a country they loved but didn't love them.
One of the most highly decorated Japanese American division to the Navajo radio operators to the African American Tuskegee Airmen the United States has been defended hwen will the Anglo American's such as TexasJohn and DTL recognize that the color of your skin shouldn't matter.
They won't because they are afraid and that's what drives racism along with ingnorance. Some of the history above you won't find in any history books why? Racism and by who? Originally Posted by carkido45

And the Aztecs were such a peaceful and welcoming culture? They didn't participate in human sacrifices, enslavement of low-land tribes, mass-murder and theft?

I'm a lil' brown boy too, but I'm also sick of race-baiters throwing slavery, the trials of the American Indian tribes, the interment of the Japanese-Americans and its like in the face of white people who had nothing to do with it. What are you expecting? Sympathy? Retribution? FYI, the white settlers didn't exactly have it easy either, you know. They were persecuted in Europe, segregated on the East Coast, hunted by violent bands of indians as they travelled west and cheated out of their property when "statehood" came along for their territories. Shit sucks all over.

I can understand wanting to understand and remember these things from a historical aspect, so that we don't repeat the same mistakes, but this is just race-baiting, pure and simple. You're setting people up in no-win situation, rather than engaging them on the merits of their ideas. It's spineless and weak.

And BTW, all of the things mentioned in the quoted post ARE in history books and ARE documented thoroughly. Many of our major universities devote entire undergraduate courses of study to those things. Stop playing the "poor brown people, we don't get no credit..." card. It doesn't hold water anymore, not with every liberal douchebag school-board in the country rewriting history books.

I also grew up in a predominantly white neighborhood, went to predominantly white schools and got teased for having a last name with a little flair in it. So? If it wasn't that, it was going to be something else. Kids are evil little shits and they don't need "good" or "racist" reasons to fuck with each other. Dragging out your own personal sob-story from childhood is pathetic. Everybody has one. Nobody cares.

The issue of immigration is complex and has no easy answer. Every nation faces it. England is dealing with an influx of indians and pakistanis. Germany is dealing with an influx of Turks and eastern Europeans. Mexico has a problem with Central Americans. We're not unique. Its just trendy to label ourselves racist, heartless and greedy, demand our government do something about it without offering any kind of ideas, critique it on the internet as if you're some kind of genius, and whine about how nobody listens to you and your vote is becoming meaningless.

I'm for an open border and immediate citizenship for anyone who wants it. Why? I say start taxing the fuck out of them, just like they're taxing the fuck out of me. Odds are they'll realize "the land of opportunity" ain't what is used to be and some of them will start staying home. IMHO, most of the illegal immigrant community doesn't want that. They don't want a pathway to citizenship. They want to continue to be insulated against the true cost of living here by their fucktard democrat elected officials.

So I doubt DTL, Gnadfly, or Lexuslover have ever been treated this way so I doubt they will ever change how they see people of a different color than they are. Originally Posted by carkido45

I was not a "blue baby" so I was not allowed to die as a baby, which would have saved me from having to read your whining about being bullied as a child.....by other kids in the neighborhood.

I was born in "the Valley," could not speak English until after 1st grade (there were no "bi-lingual" programs back then), raised by folks from Mexico who worked on the farm, picked some cotton myself, lived and traveled extensively in Mexico, have family and close friends living in Mexico, and now live in a neighborhood dominated by minorities, including folks from Mexico or with family ties to Mexico, most of my "customers" are minorities, including folks from Mexico or with family ties to Mexico, and ....

my car has been written on, dented, tires slashed, and egged .... and on a daily and nightly occasion I must be subjected into my house over the television the loud boom-box noise rattling the screws in the doors as the "neighbors" come home from ..... wherever ..... because ....

I am "white"?

Now, do I "whine" .... no. I .... call 911, go to court when the trash vandalizing my property and invading my home with their noise are caught, repair my car, and let the turds know that I will not take their shit. The "old ones" get the message, the young ones need a little more education.

The problem with you "Car Kidd O" is you are having a pitty-party ... daily!

Lexuslover with that kind of attitude no wonder they fuck your stuff up. Karma ia Bitch huh?
I roll in the hood as I do in the Memorial area all the time no problems here.

August 3, 2010 Arizona, Borderlands and U.S.-Mexican Relations

August 3, 2010






By George Friedman
Arizona’s new law on illegal immigration went into effect last week, albeit severely limited by a federal court ruling. The U.S. Supreme Court undoubtedly will settle the matter, which may also trigger federal regulations. However that turns out, the entire issue cannot simply be seen as an internal American legal matter. More broadly, it forms part of the relations between the United States and Mexico, two sovereign nation-states whose internal dynamics and interests are leading them into an era of increasing tension. Arizona and the entire immigration issue have to be viewed in this broader context.
Until the Mexican-American War, it was not clear whether the dominant power in North America would have its capital in Washington or Mexico City. Mexico was the older society with a substantially larger military. The United States, having been founded east of the Appalachian Mountains, had been a weak and vulnerable country. At its founding, it lacked strategic depth and adequate north-south transportation routes. The ability of one colony to support another in the event of war was limited. More important, the United States had the most vulnerable of economies: It was heavily dependent on maritime exports and lacked a navy able to protect its sea-lanes against more powerful European powers like England and Spain. The War of 1812 showed the deep weakness of the United States. By contrast, Mexico had greater strategic depth and less dependence on exports.
The Centrality of New Orleans

The American solution to this strategic weakness was to expand the United States west of the Appalachians, first into the Northwest Territory ceded to the United States by the United Kingdom and then into the Louisiana Purchase, which Thomas Jefferson ordered bought from France. These two territories gave the United States both strategic depth and a new economic foundation. The regions could support agriculture that produced more than the farmers could consume. Using the Ohio-Missouri-Mississippi river system, products could be shipped south to New Orleans. New Orleans was the farthest point south to which flat-bottomed barges from the north could go, and the farthest inland that oceangoing ships could travel. New Orleans became the single most strategic point in North America. Whoever controlled it controlled the agricultural system developing between the Appalachians and the Rockies. During the War of 1812, the British tried to seize New Orleans, but forces led by Andrew Jackson defeated them in a battle fought after the war itself was completed.
Jackson understood the importance of New Orleans to the United States. He also understood that the main threat to New Orleans came from Mexico. The U.S.-Mexican border then stood on the Sabine River, which divides today’s Texas from Louisiana. It was about 200 miles from that border to New Orleans and, at its narrowest point, a little more than 100 miles from the Sabine to the Mississippi.
Mexico therefore represented a fundamental threat to the United States. In response, Jackson authorized a covert operation under Sam Houston to foment an uprising among American settlers in the Mexican department of Texas with the aim of pushing Mexico farther west. With its larger army, a Mexican thrust to the Mississippi was not impossible — nor something the Mexicans would necessarily avoid, as the rising United States threatened Mexican national security.
Mexico’s strategic problem was the geography south of the Rio Grande (known in Mexico as the Rio Bravo). This territory consisted of desert and mountains. Settling this area with large populations was impossible. Moving through it was difficult. As a result, Texas was very lightly settled with Mexicans, prompting Mexico initially to encourage Americans to settle there. Once a rising was fomented among the Americans, it took time and enormous effort to send a Mexican army into Texas. When it arrived, it was weary from the journey and short of supplies. The insurgents were defeated at the Alamo and Goliad, but as the Mexicans pushed their line east toward the Mississippi, they were defeated at San Jacinto, near present-day Houston.
The creation of an independent Texas served American interests, relieving the threat to New Orleans and weakening Mexico. The final blow was delivered under President James K. Polk during the Mexican-American War, which (after the Gadsden Purchase) resulted in the modern U.S.-Mexican border. That war severely weakened both the Mexican army and Mexico City, which spent roughly the rest of the century stabilizing Mexico’s original political order.
A Temporary Resolution

The U.S. defeat of Mexico settled the issue of the relative power of Mexico and the United States but did not permanently resolve the region’s status; that remained a matter of national power and will. The United States had the same problem with much of the Southwest (aside from California) that Mexico had: It was a relatively unattractive place economically, given that so much of it was inhospitable. The region experienced chronic labor shortages, relatively minor at first but accelerating over time. The acquisition of relatively low-cost labor became one of the drivers of the region’s economy, and the nearest available labor pool was Mexico. An accelerating population movement out of Mexico and into the territory the United States seized from Mexico paralleled the region’s accelerating economic growth.
The United States and Mexico both saw this as mutually beneficial. From the American point of view, there was a perpetual shortage of low-cost, low-end labor in the region. From the Mexican point of view, Mexico had a population surplus that the Mexican economy could not readily metabolize. The inclination of the United States to pull labor north was thus matched by the inclination of Mexico to push that labor north.
The Mexican government built its social policy around the idea of exporting surplus labor — and as important, using remittances from immigrants to stabilize the Mexican economy. The U.S. government, however, wanted an outcome that was illegal under U.S. law. At times, the federal government made exceptions to the law. When it lacked the political ability to change the law, the United States put limits on the resources needed to enforce the law. The rest of the country didn’t notice this process while the former Mexican borderlands benefited from it economically. There were costs to the United States in this immigrant movement, in health care, education and other areas, but business interests saw these as minor costs while Washington saw them as costs to be borne by the states.
Three fault lines emerged in United States on the topic. One was between the business classes, which benefited directly from the flow of immigrants and could shift the cost of immigration to other social sectors, and those who did not enjoy those benefits. The second lay between the federal government, which saw the costs as trivial, and the states, which saw them as intensifying over time. And third, there were tensions between Mexican-American citizens and other American citizens over the question of illegal migrants. This inherently divisive, potentially explosive mix intensified as the process continued.
Borderlands and the Geopolitics of Immigration

Underlying this political process was a geopolitical one. Immigration in any country is destabilizing. Immigrants have destabilized the United States ever since the Scots-Irish changed American culture, taking political power and frightening prior settlers. The same immigrants were indispensible to economic growth. Social and cultural instability proved a low price to pay for the acquisition of new labor.
That equation ultimately also works in the case of Mexican migrants, but there is a fundamental difference. When the Irish or the Poles or the South Asians came to the United States, they were physically isolated from their homelands. The Irish might have wanted Roman Catholic schools, but in the end, they had no choice but to assimilate into the dominant culture. The retention of cultural hangovers did not retard basic cultural assimilation, given that they were far from home and surrounded by other, very different, groups.
This is the case for Mexican-Americans in Chicago or Alaska, whether citizens, permanent residents or illegal immigrants. In such locales, they form a substantial but ultimately isolated group, surrounded by other, larger groups and generally integrated into the society and economy. Success requires that subsequent generations follow the path of prior immigrants and integrate. This is not the case, however, for Mexicans moving into the borderlands conquered by the United States just as it is not the case in other borderlands around the world. Immigrant populations in this region are not physically separated from their homeland, but rather can be seen as culturally extending their homeland northward — in this case not into alien territory, but into historically Mexican lands.
This is no different from what takes place in borderlands the world over. The political border moves because of war. Members of an alien population suddenly become citizens of a new country. Sometimes, massive waves of immigrants from the group that originally controlled the territory politically move there, undertaking new citizenship or refusing to do so. The cultural status of the borderland shifts between waves of ethnic cleansing and population movement. Politics and economics mix, sometimes peacefully and sometimes explosively.
The Mexican-American War established the political boundary between the two countries. Economic forces on both sides of the border have encouraged both legal and illegal immigration north into the borderland — the area occupied by the United States. The cultural character of the borderland is shifting as the economic and demographic process accelerates. The political border stays were it is while the cultural border moves northward.
The underlying fear of those opposing this process is not economic (although it is frequently expressed that way), but much deeper: It is the fear that the massive population movement will ultimately reverse the military outcome of the 1830s and 1840s, returning the region to Mexico culturally or even politically. Such borderland conflicts rage throughout the world. The fear is that it will rage here.
The problem is that Mexicans are not seen in the traditional context of immigration to the United States. As I have said, some see them as extending their homeland into the United States, rather than as leaving their homeland and coming to the United States. Moreover, by treating illegal immigration as an acceptable mode of immigration, a sense of helplessness is created, a feeling that the prior order of society was being profoundly and illegally changed. And finally, when those who express these concerns are demonized, they become radicalized. The tension between Washington and Arizona — between those who benefit from the migration and those who don’t — and the tension between Mexican-Americans who are legal residents and citizens of the United States and support illegal immigration and non-Mexicans who oppose illegal immigration creates a potentially explosive situation.
Centuries ago, Scots moved to Northern Ireland after the English conquered it. The question of Northern Ireland, a borderland, was never quite settled. Similarly, Albanians moved to now-independent Kosovo, where tensions remain high. The world is filled with borderlands where political and cultural borders don’t coincide and where one group wants to change the political border that another group sees as sacred.
Migration to the United States is a normal process. Migration into the borderlands from Mexico is not. The land was seized from Mexico by force, territory now experiencing a massive national movement — legal and illegal — changing the cultural character of the region. It should come as no surprise that this is destabilizing the region, as instability naturally flows from such forces.
Jewish migration to modern-day Israel represents a worst-case scenario for borderlands. An absence of stable political agreements undergirding this movement characterized this process. One of the characteristics of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is mutual demonization. In the case of Arizona, demonization between the two sides also runs deep. The portrayal of supporters of Arizona’s new law as racist and the characterization of critics of that law as un-American is neither new nor promising. It is the way things would sound in a situation likely to get out of hand.
Ultimately, this is not about the Arizona question. It is about the relationship between Mexico and the United States on a range of issues, immigration merely being one of them. The problem as I see it is that the immigration issue is being treated as an internal debate among Americans when it is really about reaching an understanding with Mexico. Immigration has been treated as a subnational issue involving individuals. It is in fact a geopolitical issue between two nation-states. Over the past decades, Washington has tried to avoid turning immigration into an international matter, portraying it rather as an American law enforcement issue. In my view, it cannot be contained in that box any longer.
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Lexuslover with that kind of attitude no wonder they fuck your stuff up. Originally Posted by carkido45

They fuck with my stuff, because they are worthless trash, with no class.

Period.

We are buying, they are renting. Their leases are running out.

I'm for an open border and immediate citizenship for anyone who wants it. Why? I say start taxing the fuck out of them, just like they're taxing the fuck out of me. Odds are they'll realize "the land of opportunity" ain't what is used to be and some of them will start staying home. IMHO, most of the illegal immigrant community doesn't want that. They don't want a pathway to citizenship. They want to continue to be insulated against the true cost of living here by their fucktard democrat elected officials. Originally Posted by enderwiggin

Thanks for your honesty enderwiggin.

I'm tired of these idiots yelling 'racism' when their position starts to erode. Yeah, something happened to your grandfather 50 years ago. Something happened to my grandfather too. He was half-Sioux and never used it as an excuse a day in his life. I was pulled over by cops when I was young for no reason. I was also pulled over by cops for good reasons.

Most every 'people' have blood on their hands. Time to move on.

....when their position starts to erode.


Time to move on. Originally Posted by gnadfly

"starts"?

It's obvious that Don T's avatar is Obama painted to look like The Joker, while it is disrespectful to the POTUS it is not racist.

I wish people were more concerned with outsourcing, the illegal immigrants are not taking the jobs of anyone that find the time to sit in front of a computer and bitch about illegal immigration.

The POTUS is disrespectful of the position.

I wish people were more concerned with outsourcing, .... the illegal immigrants ...... Originally Posted by RebeccaRothko

Rebecca, I think a lot of people are "concerned with outsourcing" .. just like a lot of people are "concerned" about people sneaking into this country without first obtaining permission to do so......and the predators who prey on those who wish to come to the U.S. and need assistance in getting here and then into the interior.

In fact, it was a "concern" of folks for as far back as I can remember.

My problem with the current ridiculousness is that for political reasons the current Federal government will not do a damn thing about it, but will attempt to prevent a State government from doing something about it.

Arizona needs help, but at least do not frustrate what ability they have.

Originally Posted by LexusLover
In Bexar County, back when the Democrats ran everything unanimously, vegetable trucks were used to haul voters from the South and West sides who were gathered by the block captains who passed out the list of candidates to be selected at the polls. After "pulling the lever" the obedient voters were rewarded with beer and food at one of the local government maintained parks in their area.

It was a remarkable show of the benefits of ............ refreshments.

Every two years, food and beer. In between, nada.

Originally Posted by LexusLover
In Bexar County, back when the Democrats ran everything unanimously, vegetable trucks were used to haul voters from the South and West sides who were gathered by the block captains who passed out the list of candidates to be selected at the polls. After "pulling the lever" the obedient voters were rewarded with beer and food at one of the local government maintained parks in their area.

It was a remarkable show of the benefits of ............ refreshments.>> and where I was born the dead voted for both parties,
>> corruption is currently the bedrock of both parties.
>> read about Ethics charges now, and back when the repubs were in charge, no difference.

Interesting read,,,, Lexus, all I did is point out both parties are the same, Dem's in Baxter had a great party every 2 years, in my home town repubs / dems spilt the dead vote. In TX off the record financing by Repubs help a 3rd party reach a critical number of signatures to get on the ballot.

Both parties are ethically challenged and have been historically, currently Rangel & Waters for Dems, before there where repubs. TX wide look at Linda Harper-Brown. Look at Shelia Jackson Lee.

I would guess you only see 1 party to the blame for all, I want to be more inclusive.

But yeah... if give you the warm fuzzies, I blame everything on Bush, crabgrass, fire ants..., every drop of rain, the lack of rain, yeah everything..
the sudden price increase in GSO3 and BlueWater, well that the fault of hoarders on this board....