LE and Reviews

my guesstimate of 10% is therefore too high for the US and the EU.
for Europe, because i know that situation better, i would estimate 6% and the US probably lower. I suggest 4 - 5%. Originally Posted by Buonas

I think you're still pretty high for the US and Europe. The last link in your post showed global expenditures for prostitution of $400 billion. The US GDP is approx. $14 trillion; the European Union is about the same. (China, Japan, India, and Brazil together add another $18 trillion and change to the world economy.) Your estimates of 6% and 4% would mean that the US and Europe together had prostitution expenditures of $1,400 billion -- one trillion more than the total global expenditures and without even including the thriving sex-tourism business of SE Asia.

I think you're still pretty high for the US and Europe. The last link in your post showed global expenditures for prostitution of $400 billion. The US GDP is approx. $14 trillion; the European Union is about the same. (China, Japan, India, and Brazil together add another $18 trillion and change to the world economy.) Your estimates of 6% and 4% would mean that the US and Europe together had prostitution expenditures of $1,400 billion -- one trillion more than the total global expenditures and without even including the thriving sex-tourism business of SE Asia. Originally Posted by Chevalier

I agree it appears high. here is why I said it:

the last link has two tables:
the first has line items:
Sex 497 bil. USD
Prostitution 400 bil. USD
total 897
of course one can argue whether to add the two lines or not. these figures are legal market numbers and do not include the grey/black market.

the second is a projection including the black/grey market volume showing different projection models.

the most conservative statistical projection (Japan) is 35
and the most progressive (Spain) is 1122.

these models are on assumptions regarding changes in unemployment since the start of the current economical crisis.

the link in my opinion shows very vague data and is ambiguous about the methodology of the projection.

I agree with you that at best we are talking guestimates.
the reason i estimate much higher is a simple fact:

20% of all assets managed by all financial institutions in Zürich are sourced in black market revenues. Zürich is usually where the profits end up.
this is a number from financial analysts in Zürich.

you can check their web sites and information about capitalization etc yourself.

we can discuss how much of black market is sex industry and what not. since the account holders are often in multiple segments of the black markets it will be difficult to tally.

what i do know is that the city of Zürich, where the sex industry is legal, receives 7% of their tax revenue from of these establishments. this is the same city where the aforementioned banks pay taxes.

the point i want to make is simply that the scale should not be underestimated.

the more it is treated illegal, the more of that revenue ends up in Zürich figuratively speaking instead of tax money in Austin.

i support the idea that revenue generated locally should stay at least in the same state. not on a snowy rock half away to the moon...

sorry for going off topic here.

I think you are echoing one point I sought to make, that what we know as democracy, with universal suffage of all citizens, is a very recent thing, and has little to do with republican forms of government practiced heretofore.

My point is that what we enjoy as democracy is a far, far cry from the enlightenment and rationalist philosophies which influenced the formulators of the American system. What we have now would be shocking to the founding fathers, who like their enlightenment influencers, had no faith in the capacity of the illiterate, females, or anyone of lesser social or legal status to make such decisions.

As for the fruitlessness of the sacrifice of American servicemen... do you really believe that they were committed to combat in foreign wars to expand democracy? From the attack on Mexico in 1846 to grab California, to the campaigns in the Phillipines and Cuba in 1898, to the defeat of Germany in 1918 and again in 1945 [first on behalf of the British, then on behalf of Stalin] to the recent invasions in Iraq and elsewhere....this was to promote 'democracy?' Of course that's what the soldiers were told, and if they were gullable enough to believe the newspapers
[which wiser ones from Mark Twain to Lindhberg did not] then that's why they fought. However I doubt whether many historians would agree that such were the real motives of the American governments which launched these wars.

As for the amount spent on illegal and therefore totally unaccountable trades such as illegal sex and narcotics, none of the estimates cited are valid because there is absolutely no way of knowing what the amounts are. Plenty of people CLAIM to know these things...but they don't know. Only in places like Germany and The Netherlands, where sex is legal, are there accurate numbers...and what they reveal in those two cases is telling.

lets talk about pussy again

I guess Stalin was texting the us troups when the train crashed. come on.... the us went to ww2 on behalf of Stalin??? Originally Posted by Buonas

Nothing that you have posted in this thread has anything to do with its topic, LE and Reviews.

Some refer to it as derailing a thread. (hence the picture.)
Some refer to it as hijacking.

...Some refer to it as derailing a thread.
Some refer to it as hijacking. Originally Posted by Mokoa

I said that at the beginning. honorable1 decided to continue hashing on it.

The reason why I derailed it was because posters above initiated it with philosophic opines about how wonderful the foundations of our democacy is, and why can't we change everything about this hobby so everyone will accept it, all in response to my post stating that we should live within the system we have...

I respect the cherished political beliefs of all here, but when I see chauvanistic comments I have a hard time seeing them go unchallenged, particularly given the harm such ill-conceived 'patriotism' has brought to the world in the last decade. That's the view of opinion all over the world, not just mine, although I might be in the minority within these nation's borders.

The reason why I derailed it was because posters above initiated it with philosophic opines about how wonderful the foundations of our democracy is, and why can't we change everything about this hobby so everyone will accept it, all in response to my post stating that we should live within the system we have...

I respect the cherished political beliefs of all here, but when I see chauvanistic comments I have a hard time seeing them go unchallenged, particularly given the harm such ill-conceived 'patriotism' has brought to the world in the last decade. That's the view of opinion all over the world, not just mine, although I might be in the minority within these nation's borders. Originally Posted by honorable1

chauvinistic? that surprises me, honestly.
having respect for the country that extends me the privilege to be a permanent resident is ill-conceived?
respect does not mean there isn't a lot i could criticize about.
I do not want to put you down or anything. In fact I find the discussion we have here very interesting, although we both screwed up on staying on-topic.

since the original topic derailed, i guess it is ok to talk a bit further.

I object to confusing military actions against the REAL threat some wackos pose with patriotism. honestly i could not figure out another avenue than military action against that threat. especially since diplomatic action and embargoes have shown not have an impact.
one can argue that feelings of patriotism were misused to gain support for actions against irak and that that country did not pose a real threat to the US. we might have to ask some neighbors of irak about the reality of a threat. but if regional destabilization cuts the energy supply, then it is at least indirectly a thread to America.

i can't believe that the fact, that the American Constitution is one of the better constitutions around, is doubted. sure you can say a lot of that was betrayed, but don't forget that we live in a post modern age, in a transitional period where the value system and the decision-making processes shift away from what we call democracy. this is simply so because all the supranational entities that implement globalization are not democratically elected and supervised powers.
democracy only works if people are educated. once that precondition is weakened or removed, the elective processes become a farce, as can be seen not only in this country.
one problem here is that the two mayor parties are called democratic and republican respectfully. compared to the political landscape in other countries, the democrats would fit the label social democrats and the republicans a label like christian conservative.
this mislabeling complicates discussions about aspects of the form of government per se.

my impression is that your opinion and mine are not that far away from each other. you might be more cynical because you grew up here and have seen the epic arrogance and betrayal that occurs within the government. (not just this one)

for years, Americans abroad often got caught in discussions apologizing about their 'bad government'. this is simply because the US, by it's sheer size always has an impact on every other country, whether they want to or not. so American empathy towards their homeland was hidden behind the apologetic conversation.

the events of 9/11 brought that more into the open. for a brief period after that, there was an empathy towards the fellow neighbors around you that has since been lost. it is my opinion, that that empathy is something precious. can you call it patriotism? i don't know.

best regards,

Buonas

I would just like to add....I have unfortunately had 2 run ins with le in the hobby, in missouri and florida. I have not experienced a stacking of charges, nor has reviews been mentioned. I was able to plea the charges down in both cases. It seems that le in both states were more worried about who may be "managing" me and the question of who posts my ads came up in both places. On the topic of le doing what they want, SO TRUE! In florida, the officer received some oral pleasure before busting me. In missouri an officer contacted me WITH verifiable refs, started to arrest me but never called for backup and never called my info in, then told me I was lucky because he'd arrested 2 girls that day but he's not going to take me to jail, but would love to take me to lunch....still calls me to this day to see if I've changed my mind about lunch and to also "warn" me about what areas to steer clear of. Kinda weird!

If the ads, that we providers post, contain a list of services can be used as evidence, at least that's how they got me in Little Rock, then why wouldn't they be able to use a review???
Either way, I think it's stupid, and they only bother us, both hobbyist and providers, because they haven't made their "quotas", and it's probably the easiest and most enjoyable way for them...
They're the lazy ones, on the force, that don't want to get off their fat asses and do their real job...
They don't want to "honor" they're "badge" and "protect and serve", the persons that really need them...
What I want to know is???
Why is it okay for us to fuck the "whole community" for free, but not to receive monies for it???
Who are we hurting/murdering/rapping???
I'd rather a rapist call me, than rape his 6 year old daughter, or his 12 year old niece???
They need to leave us leave us alone, and do their real job...

After reading these posts, I think I will revise what I say in a review. Still informative, just a little more discreet.

wow, you saying that really show what kind of person you are.. I LIKE!!! this definately puts u on my list if I ever travel to dallas!

Who are we hurting/murdering/rapping???
I'd rather a rapist call me, than rape his 6 year old daughter, or his 12 year old niece???
They need to leave us leave us alone, and do their real job... Originally Posted by Sweet Infiniti

There are several reasons why reviews are difficult to use in any prosection. However the subject of explict ads is a horse of a different color.

In most states the law is broken whenever someone solicits compensation in exchange for the offer of a particular act. Going on media such as the internet and offering a menu of acts and asking for a "donation" or the like in exchange is going to be treated in most venues the same as standing on a street corner with a sign doing the same thing.

If I had a client who asked me if such ads are advisable, or are risky, in the state where I reside (Texas) I would definitely advise them not to do it. Besides, if someone has favorable reviews suggesting what others might have had then what's the need for a menu in an ad?

Just not worth it.

When it comes to solicitation LE has to be involved directly at the time and in a sense witness the crime as it's ocurring. I don't think they can arrest you for admitting that you solicited someone else in the past. In other words I think LE has to catch the client in the act of solicitation.

It's the same as if you run a red light, if the cop didn't see it, then you didn't do it. Same thing with driving drunk, if they don't catch you in the act then they can't arrest you after the fact, even if you admit it later. Originally Posted by mca9276

Actually, I disagree. LE has become more and more adept at using and applying technology. Look at the automated ticketing systems used at intersections. A radar sees your speed, your license plate is photographed and you are issued a ticket. Proof enough.

Frankly, they are behind existing technologies by years, but at some point, I believe the matter-of-factness of internet logging can and will become enough to support a conviction in many different areas. Expect it with the child porn sites first. Once that door is open, so go the flood gates and that means these SHMBs as well.

I've been in the telecommunications and ISP engineering business for years, and it is nothing to trace a user from beginning to end. Start with a user ID. It tracks very easily to an IP address, and as a support tech, you know exactly what router that IP is being allocated out of. Login to that router and build an ACL (access-control-list, takes 2 minutes) to output all traffic details (based on destination IP: YOU) to a file on the router. Download the file to your PC and open in a sniffer program and WAALAA, you know everything and every place they have been. Done it many times. The exact same set of data that makes all this show up on your screen gets captured and is readable in these sniffer programs just as you see it here.

Interesting story. Earlier in my career when dialup was all the rage I helped manage a very large dialup network. One day, while working on a user issue, I noticed a very sexual user ID (an email address, including a first name) logged (dialed) into a RAS (remote access server) in some disparate city. The user was logged in at the time, so I took the email address, and sent an email such as..

Hi <name from ID>, how ya been? When we gonna play again?

I got a response within minutes from a married lady swinger who thought she remembered me and asked about my weekend plans. I never replied. True story.

I assume by then we will also have figured out how to spoof our way around things, but you never know.

Or...LE could just raid the server site and seize the server hardware. Anything is possible. Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING is logged on the internet. There is NO anonymity on the internet. Your biggest ally here is the volume of traffic, but if you are singled out, you have no basis for any real defense once LE better understands the technology and the courts catch up. Cover your a** folks.