Is Obama a Marxist?

Okay, lets settle this. This is for Dovebar, Munchie, OMG, and the RGOI; what would it take for you to except that Obama is a marxist other than an open admission from him? Tell us all what it would take. What action, what paper trail, what words by whom would convince you?

I got tired of reading through this so i skipped ahead, Obama's philosophy and those who propped him up were marxists.

Look at his backers SEIU, Soros et al. Strangely they are also the ones backing the people who are occupying wall street and other cities. Its a page out of the communist manifesto, start a bottom up revolution.

Now the direction he's heading is more of that of a National Socialist (yes NAZI without genocide) where the state takes over manufacturing, business ect. This is evident when they bailed out GM and installed a puppet CEO.

Thus Far his "Change" policy the economy has hit the crapper, he wants to raise taxes but has been blocked (see the whole 250K earner tax hike) he's used his regulatory agencies to squeeze companies that don't pander to him. (look at his choice of GE's CEO to advise and Goldman Sach's advisory, both of whom gave a lot to his campaign)

I am not sure if what Karl Marx had in mind was a bunch of thugs taking over a Government and turning it into a one party dictatorship, where the Government has the final authority on everything, including life and death.

Whether that is what he had in mind or not, that is what happens in these so called Communist "People's Republics".

Can you site any SPECIFIC innacuracy in my post? You say my facts are refuted, but you don't mention anything in particular. It's a little hard to provide a defence to such a generalized accusation. Is it your contention that everything I'm saying is untrue? Originally Posted by joe bloe

No Try to be specific.

Factcheck.org is liberally biased and not a credible source. Once again, show 2 examples of SPECIFIC incorrect factchecks that have not been corrected by Factcheck. You blow off Politifact and Factcheck as unreliable sources without showing a single instance of inaccurasy by either. They're funded by the Annenberg Foundation which is being run by leftist partisans. That's the same foundation that funded The Chicago Annenberg Challange which was run by Obama. Day to day operations were run by someone other than Obama. The funding for the Annenberg Challenge was granted based partly on Bill Ayer's request to the foundation.

PS
You really should try to calm down. Your posts are angry and hatefull and full of personal attacks. Do you really think insulting me makes your arguments more convincing? The bile you spew only makes you seem unstable. Your posts remind me of a line from WB Yeat's poem "The Second Coming". "The best lack all conviction while the worst are full of passionate intensity" Originally Posted by joe bloe

Angry? You bet. You post inaccurate information. You state your opinions as facts. The opinions are based on inaccurate information. One of the things that gets me the most is the decrying of cutting and pasting. The people who complain the most are the ones who are corrected by the practice. I state my opinions in my own words. I cut and paste links and sections of text that support my opinions. Should I type the information and reword it? Very few people post links. That is OK for your opinion but I would think if you had researched what you claim is fact, you would provide a link. It looks like the lack of links is based on the source of the information and it’s lack of credibility. Since you think my 2 sources are bogus and you offer no examples of why that is the case, why do you ask me for specific examples? As a courtesy I am providing some.
And I ask you how many things wrong with your post (or anyone’s) should be acceptable before all the information is called into question? If I find 1 or 2, why should I look further?
I apologize for my name calling. Its not done because of hate. It is done out of frustration that someone continues to use information that has been proven wrong.

As far as specifics go, we can do it a little at a time.

No, I meant maternal grandfather, Obama's mother's father, Stanley Dunham. He was a real nut job. He named Obama's mother after himself. Obama's mother was named Staney Ann Dunham. The Dunhams were living in Texas in the nineteen fifties. They never lived in Texas.After his discharge from the military in 1945, the family moved to Berkeley CA. They then moved to El Dorado KS Obama's grandfather was watching the House Unamerican Activites Committee hearings on television. They questioned a communist who was running a school in Seattle that had communist teachers and a leftist curriculum, Where does this tidbit come from?The Mercer Island School. The Mercer Island High School, a public school. Stanley was so excited about the idea of having his daughter taught by communists that he moved the family across country to Seattle. Source for this? What proof that this school had communist teachers?

Stanley was friends with Frank Marshall Davis, a member of the Communist Party USA. Frank Marshall Davis was originally from Chicago and was friends with Vernon Jarrett also a communist party member (CPUSA). Vernon Jarrett was the father in law of Valerie Jarrett, For less than 5 years. But so what? who later became Obama's closet advisor and confidant. Stanley brought in Frank Marshall Davis to be Obama's mentor from the time Obama was twelve until he was eighteen. Claims that Davis was a political influence on Obama were made by Jerome Corsi in his anti-Obama book The Obama Nation.[23] A rebuttal released by Obama's presidential campaign, titled Unfit for Publication, confirmed that "Frank" was Frank Marshall Davis, but disputes those claims about the nature of their relationship.

The LIE: “But the key role Frank Marshall Davis plays in the autobiography is not to provide Obama with
words from his poems as a voice for Obama’s black rage. Instead Davis is the mentor Obama
seeks for wisdom and advice, for instance when he has a crisis with his grandmother that was so
traumatic Obama still mentions it today.” [p 87]

REALITY: OBAMA MEMOIR CHARACTERIZED FRANK DAVIS MARSHALL AS A FIGURE
FROM HIS YOUTH WHO “FELL SHORT” AND WHOSE VIEW OF RACE WAS
“INCURABLE”
Obama Wrote Of Frank As Someone Who “Fell Short” Of The “Lofty Standards” Of “Martin And
Malcolm, Dubois And Mandela.” “Yes, I’d seen weakness in other men—Gramps and his disappointments,
Lolo and his compromise. But these men had become object lessons for me, men I might love but never
emulate, white men and brown men whose fates didn’t speak to my own. It was into my father’s image, the
black man, son of Africa, that I’d packed all the attributes I sought in myself, the attributes of Martin and
Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela. And if later I saw that the black men I knew— Frank or Ray or Will or Rafiq—
fell short of such lofty standards; if I had learned to respect these men for the struggles they went through,
recognizing them as my own—my father’s voice had nevertheless remained untainted, inspiring, rebuking,
granting or withholding approval. You do not work hard enough, Barry. You must help in your people’s
struggle. Wake up, black man!” [Dreams From My Father, Pg. 96]

Information sources confirming everything I've written are readily available. The stuff I wrote too Just Google a few key words; it's really easy. If you're interested in reading a great book on Obama that gives insight into his twisted mind, I highly recommend "The Roots of Obama's Rage" by Dinesh D'Souza. It explains how Obama's world view was basically transplanted from his alchoholic, Marxist, bigamist father who hated Great Britain and western civilization.

Okay, lets settle this. This is for Dovebar, Munchie, OMG, and the RGOI; what would it take for you to except that Obama is a marxist other than an open admission from him? Tell us all what it would take. What action, what paper trail, what words by whom would convince you? Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Court of law acceptable evidence that can't be interpreted any other way as the standard.

What would it take for you to accept (do you wonder why people complain about our schools and teachers?) that he is not?

You claim he is guilty.
Since Americans believe someone is innocent until proven guilty, what do you believe?

You're not required to prove a negative. But if credible charges are made against a sitting president that make him unfit to serve, his supporters have an obligation to refute them it they can. Originally Posted by joe bloe

You’re wrong again. The supporters have no obligation to voice support whatsoever. The detractors have an obligation to let the process that the Constitution spells out be unhindered. Which side can yell louder doesn't figure in.
You declare him guilty before any type of hearing or trial. You are not eligible to serve on a jury regarding this matter because you can't render an impartial judgment. I say prove to me beyond reasonable doubt he is guilty. Your case you present is seriously flawed. Full of incorrect facts and opinions that are nothing more than opinions.

Like before, the attack posts lack links to even begin to back up the claims made here.

Show me some proof these opinions are facts.

Okay, lets settle this. This is for Dovebar, Munchie, OMG, and the RGOI; what would it take for you to except that Obama is a marxist other than an open admission from him? Tell us all what it would take. What action, what paper trail, what words by whom would convince you? Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Nothing you're ever gonna see would convince me.

Pointing to this, that or the other thing and saying "a Marxist would do that, so Obama's a Marxist" just ain't gonna cut it. Sorry.

I think Monty Python got it about right with you guys.

I am not sure if what Karl Marx had in mind was a bunch of thugs taking over a Government and turning it into a one party dictatorship, where the Government has the final authority on everything, including life and death.

Whether that is what he had in mind or not, that is what happens in these so called Communist "People's Republics". Originally Posted by Jackie S

marxism, communism, and yes, even liberalism cannot survive, for they are unnatural, except by force.

they are restrictive and require a police state and all such arrangements of government become authoritarian states with stagnating economies.

liberalism, to be an operating governing philosophy, does so only by force. it can only govern with ever restricting rules and ever growing enforcements. it can be a fine college philosophical position and a seemingly, albeit misguided and idiotic, heart-felt good that seeks to uplift but in practice it is an evil restrictive authoritarian bedevilment of people subjected to it.

Angry? You bet. You post inaccurate information. You state your opinions as facts. The opinions are based on inaccurate information. One of the things that gets me the most is the decrying of cutting and pasting. The people who complain the most are the ones who are corrected by the practice. I state my opinions in my own words. I cut and paste links and sections of text that support my opinions. Should I type the information and reword it? Very few people post links. That is OK for your opinion but I would think if you had researched what you claim is fact, you would provide a link. It looks like the lack of links is based on the source of the information and it’s lack of credibility. Since you think my 2 sources are bogus and you offer no examples of why that is the case, why do you ask me for specific examples? As a courtesy I am providing some.
And I ask you how many things wrong with your post (or anyone’s) should be acceptable before all the information is called into question? If I find 1 or 2, why should I look further?
I apologize for my name calling. Its not done because of hate. It is done out of frustration that someone continues to use information that has been proven wrong.

As far as specifics go, we can do it a little at a time.

No, I meant maternal grandfather, Obama's mother's father, Stanley Dunham. He was a real nut job. He named Obama's mother after himself. Obama's mother was named Staney Ann Dunham. The Dunhams were living in Texas in the nineteen fifties. They never lived in Texas.After his discharge from the military in 1945, the family moved to Berkeley CA. They then moved to El Dorado KS Obama's grandfather was watching the House Unamerican Activites Committee hearings on television. They questioned a communist who was running a school in Seattle that had communist teachers and a leftist curriculum, Where does this tidbit come from?The Mercer Island School. The Mercer Island High School, a public school. Stanley was so excited about the idea of having his daughter taught by communists that he moved the family across country to Seattle. Source for this? What proof that this school had communist teachers?

Stanley was friends with Frank Marshall Davis, a member of the Communist Party USA. Frank Marshall Davis was originally from Chicago and was friends with Vernon Jarrett also a communist party member (CPUSA). Vernon Jarrett was the father in law of Valerie Jarrett, For less than 5 years. But so what? who later became Obama's closet advisor and confidant. Stanley brought in Frank Marshall Davis to be Obama's mentor from the time Obama was twelve until he was eighteen. Claims that Davis was a political influence on Obama were made by Jerome Corsi in his anti-Obama book The Obama Nation.[23] A rebuttal released by Obama's presidential campaign, titled Unfit for Publication, confirmed that "Frank" was Frank Marshall Davis, but disputes those claims about the nature of their relationship.

The LIE: “But the key role Frank Marshall Davis plays in the autobiography is not to provide Obama with
words from his poems as a voice for Obama’s black rage. Instead Davis is the mentor Obama
seeks for wisdom and advice, for instance when he has a crisis with his grandmother that was so
traumatic Obama still mentions it today.” [p 87]

REALITY: OBAMA MEMOIR CHARACTERIZED FRANK DAVIS MARSHALL AS A FIGURE
FROM HIS YOUTH WHO “FELL SHORT” AND WHOSE VIEW OF RACE WAS
“INCURABLE”
Obama Wrote Of Frank As Someone Who “Fell Short” Of The “Lofty Standards” Of “Martin And
Malcolm, Dubois And Mandela.” “Yes, I’d seen weakness in other men—Gramps and his disappointments,
Lolo and his compromise. But these men had become object lessons for me, men I might love but never
emulate, white men and brown men whose fates didn’t speak to my own. It was into my father’s image, the
black man, son of Africa, that I’d packed all the attributes I sought in myself, the attributes of Martin and
Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela. And if later I saw that the black men I knew— Frank or Ray or Will or Rafiq—
fell short of such lofty standards; if I had learned to respect these men for the struggles they went through,
recognizing them as my own—my father’s voice had nevertheless remained untainted, inspiring, rebuking,
granting or withholding approval. You do not work hard enough, Barry. You must help in your people’s
struggle. Wake up, black man!” [Dreams From My Father, Pg. 96]

Information sources confirming everything I've written are readily available. The stuff I wrote too Just Google a few key words; it's really easy. If you're interested in reading a great book on Obama that gives insight into his twisted mind, I highly recommend "The Roots of Obama's Rage" by Dinesh D'Souza. It explains how Obama's world view was basically transplanted from his alchoholic, Marxist, bigamist father who hated Great Britain and western civilization. Originally Posted by Munchmasterman

The following quotes document that the Dunhams lived in Texas immediately prior to moving to Seattle. The Mercer Island School board was run by John Stenhouse (Communist Party Member). Time Magazine is the information source stating the Dunham's move from Texas to Seattle was as a result of Stanley Dunham viewing John Stenhouse during his appearance in The House Un-American Activities Subcommittee Hearings.

You'll note that I haven't used Jerome Corsi as a source.

Coming to Washington

Stanley Ann Dunham was born in Wichita, Kansas. on November 29, 1942, the only child of Stanley Dunham (1918-1992) and Madelyn Payne Dunham (1922-2008). Her father wanted a boy so badly that he named her Stanley, causing her considerable bemused frustration during her youth. During Barack Obama’s 2008 election campaign, much ado was made of Dunham’s Kansas upbringing -- but her family left Kansas at some point after World War II ended in 1945 and lived in California and Texas before moving to Seattle in 1955, probably as Dunham approached her 13th birthday.

http://www.historylink.org/_content/...m?file_id=8897

Moved to Seattle from Texas to go to Mercer Island School

Done bouncing around Kansas, California and Texas in the years after World War Two, Stanley and Madelyn in 1955 picked up and relocated 2,000 miles from Texas to Seattle. The next year they relocated to Mercer Island specifically so their daughter, Obama's future mother, Stanley Ann Dunham could attend Mercer Island high school.

What was special about Mercer Island High School? The Chicago Tribune explains:

"In 1955, the chairman of the Mercer Island school board, John Stenhouse, testified before the House Un-American Activities Subcommittee that he had been a member of the Communist Party."

After intense debate, Stenhouse decided not to resign from the school board according to an April 11, 1955 account in Time Magazine. While others demanded Stenhouse's resignation, the Dunhams gravitated towards his school.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/...er_baby_1.html

You quote Obama listing his role models: his father (socialist), Martin Luther King, WEB DuBois (communist party member), Malcolm X (black separatist/Nation of Islam) and Nelson Mandela (member of South African Communist Party). In case you don't click on the link, Nelson Mandela actually wrote a book called "How to Be a Good Communist" I'll bet Obama has read it!

http://www.nytimes.com/books/00/11/0...communist.html

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0408/9610.html

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/malcolm_x.htm

http://www.rhodesia.nl/goodcom.html

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/how-...ela/1026101351

http://www.opendemocracy.net/stephen...d-south-africa

Thanks for making my argument for me. If you were defending Obama in a court of law, he would have been found guilty and sued you for malpractice.

Obama is a communist.

The following quotes document that the Dunhams lived in Texas immediately prior to moving to Seattle. The Mercer Island School board was run by John Stenhouse (Communist Party Member). Time Magazine is the information source stating the Dunham's move from Texas to Seattle was as a result of Stanley Dunham viewing John Stenhouse during his appearance in The House Un-American Activities Subcommittee Hearings.

You'll note that I haven't used Jerome Corsi as a source.

Coming to Washington
Stanley Ann Dunham was born in Wichita, Kansas. on November 29, 1942, the only child of Stanley Dunham (1918-1992) and Madelyn Payne Dunham (1922-2008). Her father wanted a boy so badly that he named her Stanley, causing her considerable bemused frustration during her youth. During Barack Obama’s 2008 election campaign, much ado was made of Dunham’s Kansas upbringing -- but her family left Kansas at some point after World War II ended in 1945 and lived in California and Texas before moving to Seattle in 1955, probably as Dunham approached her 13th birthday.

http://www.historylink.org/_content/...m?file_id=8897

Moved to Seattle from Texas to go to Mercer Island School

Done bouncing around Kansas, California and Texas in the years after World War Two, Stanley and Madelyn in 1955 picked up and relocated 2,000 miles from Texas to Seattle. The next year they relocated to Mercer Island specifically so their daughter, Obama's future mother, Stanley Ann Dunham could attend Mercer Island high school.

What was special about Mercer Island High School? The Chicago Tribune explains:

"In 1955, the chairman of the Mercer Island school board, John Stenhouse, testified before the House Un-American Activities Subcommittee that he had been a member of the Communist Party."

After intense debate, Stenhouse decided not to resign from the school board according to an April 11, 1955 account in Time Magazine. While others demanded Stenhouse's resignation, the Dunhams gravitated towards his school.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/...er_baby_1.html

You quote Obama listing his role models: his father (socialist), Martin Luther King, WEB DuBois (communist party member), Malcolm X (black separatist/Nation of Islam) and Nelson Mandela (member of South African Communist Party). In case you don't click on the link, Nelson Mandela actually wrote a book called "How to Be a Good Communist" I'll bet Obama has read it!

http://www.nytimes.com/books/00/11/0...communist.html

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0408/9610.html

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/malcolm_x.htm

http://www.rhodesia.nl/goodcom.html

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/how-...ela/1026101351

http://www.opendemocracy.net/stephen...d-south-africa

Thanks for making my argument for me. If you were defending Obama in a court of law, he would have been found guilty.

Obama is a communist. Originally Posted by joe bloe

Wrong again.
I admit I got bit by using wiki as a source for their living locations. The source you offered up showing they were in Texas was wiki lite. I would not had admitted I was wrong without better proof than that site. I found better proof somewhere else. Since I admit it when I’m wrong, that increases my credibility. Since you don’t, that generally implies several different negative character traits. I’m not going to guess what they are.
What other error did you find of mine? All you did was finally show links that, on the surface without checking them further, appear to back up some of your claims. But nowhere near all of them you have made in this thread.

Covered all the bases have you?

But you still show no examples of incorrect factcheck or politifact entries. And you know you won't be able to. You have only reinforced the validity of the info from those sources.
Which proves a huge difference between what we say.
I said both are credible sources which is a fact. A fact that stands because there are not examples of them not changing a wrong answer. The 2 sites and I are alike in that regard. We admit when we’re wrong and we correct our answer.

You claim Obama is a communist. You have no real proof other than your opinion. Just like we have no real proof you hate America. No matter what observations or reasoning we might use, we have only our opinion that you hate America. Neither our opinion or your opinion are any more than that.
Thank you for proving my point. Because you won’t ever admit a mistake.

You have shown links but several are op-ed (you know, opinion) and almost all are subjective.
You certainly don't have a clue what is admissible in court.
So why would we believe you can spot a communist?
The court would deliver a no bill on your charges.
And assess you court costs.

Three out of five of Obama's role models, per your post: father (socialist), WEB Duboise (communist party member), Nelson Mandela (communist party member). Yes in my opinion Obama is a communist. I think the facts are consistant with my opinion. I don't think the facts are consistant with your opinion and I don't think any amount of incriminating information will be enough to convince you.

In the future you should try to resist the temptation to include personal insults in your posts. They make you seem sort of childish. I can imagine you arguing a case in a court of law, calling the opposing counsel a big fat liar and a doody head.

Nonsense. You obviously misused the word. Dearth means a shortage, something in scarce supply. There's no way the word makes any sense in the context you used it. It's meaning is contrary to the point you were trying to make. Don't give me some sort of tortured, convoluted pretzel logic explanation of how it makes sense.

You also misspelled created. I'm pretty sure it's not spelled "creatd" or was that intentional too?

You make yourself vulnerable to nitpicking because you are the world's worst nitpicker. Originally Posted by joe bloe

And you misspelled "It's" (or was that intentional)?

Three out of five of Obama's role models, per your post: father (socialist), WEB Duboise (communist party member), Nelson Mandela (communist party member). Yes in my opinion Obama is a communist. I think the facts are consistant with my opinion. I don't think the facts are consistant with your opinion and I don't think any amount of incriminating information will be enough to convince you.

In the future you should try to resist the temptation to include personal insults in your posts. They make you seem sort of childish. I can imagine you arguing a case in a court of law, calling the opposing counsel a big fat liar and a doody head. Originally Posted by joe bloe

You don't know my opinion other than the one that you don't have sufficient information or facts to conclude he is unquestioningly a communist.


Since I know there is a way I can be convinced, you are wrong again. I have already stated what it would take.

Since you haven't told us what could convince you of his innocence, your opinion alone is enough for you to convict him. You won't even concede it is possible you're wrong. So you have proved another point of mine.

Using the 3 men you have named, you fail to see any virtues other their political leanings. Since none were around him how would the least of their traits be passed to him? I'm not sure about you but I knew who great men were without knowing or caring what their politics were. By your logic, anyone who had Robert Lee, Jefferson Davies, etc as role models were traitors in training.
The bottom line is no man is perfect. Their flaws make them human and real. You live in a country that has many political philosophies. None of these men worked to overthrow a government. They wanted change.
Because you don't get it, there is no point in explaining.

Are you ever going to comment on the validity of Factcheck and Politifact?
I'll understand if you don't.

And you misspelled "It's" (or was that intentional)? Originally Posted by jerry.sprat

My grammar and spelling skills are pretty mediocre. I was criticizing Little Stevie because he has an annoying habit of attacking posters he doesn't agree with by finding spelling errors and then calling the poster a moron. Little Stevie and I have had an ongoing fued about this issue for several weeks.

I don't make a habit of nitpicking people's spelling or grammar because I'm far from perfect myself. I'm more interested in the content of the post as far as the reasoning behind it. I don't think imperfect spelling proves you're stupid any more than great spelling proves you're smart.

You want me to concede that it's possible that I'm wrong? Of course it's possible. I make mistakes like everyone else. I'm just expressing my opinion. Opinions are like assholes, everybodies got one. I don't think I'm wrong about Obama being a communist, but anything is possible. Nothing you've written has made me any less convinced that he's a communist.