Liberals and conservatives....

Sure that makes sense. But the Constitution was left open to interpretation; the devil is always in the details not in the broad overview of the goal they were aiming for. Then of course the 14th amendment completely muddied the waters; but it too is part of the Constitution just as much as any of the original Articles are. The genius of the document is that was put together in a way that allowed it to serve the country with minimal changes over 225+ years that have been filled with changes on our society. Originally Posted by discreetgent

There are ways to change the Constitution, through Constitutional Conventions and the Amendment process. The problem is that they are completely ignoring the Constitution now and trying to pass legislation that they have no power over as detailed in the enumerated powers of the Constitution. Then they try to exclude themselves from legislation they are trying to force onto the public. It was meant to be difficult to make changes because our government is meant to be a limited in scope where their powers "come from the consent of the governed."

Actually, I was a notch to the right. I responded "maybe" to the question "There should be no National ID card. " I was thinking of the problem with illegal aliens. Originally Posted by pjorourke

The only people who benefit from a national ID card are identity thieves.

Actually, I was a notch to the right. I responded "maybe" to the question "There should be no National ID card. " I was thinking of the problem with illegal aliens. Originally Posted by pjorourke

The only people who benefit from a national ID card are identity thieves. Originally Posted by npita

Let me remind you of a little thing called "passports." They pretty much operated as a national ID card, and now the govmint has the Passport Card:
http://travel.state.gov/passport/ppt...card_3926.html.

pj hates this chart Originally Posted by WTF

I dont hate it. I don't care about it. It is trumped up left wing bullshit. Totally meaningless.

The only people who benefit from a national ID card are identity thieves. Originally Posted by npita

Thats why I said maybe

The Right to legal representation.

Taxpayers pay for that. Originally Posted by rekcaSxT

There is no right to legal representation unless you have been charged with a crime AND are deemed indigent. If you have been detained but not charged, if it is a "civil" matter or if you are not indigent but merely can't afford it, you're screwed.

There is only the right to representation in your taxation authority (no taxation without representation).

Even those who wrote the Constitution didn't agree on what each part meant lol .... or at the very least they understood that it would be open to interpretation.

DG is right. Thomas Jefferson and, I think, Alexander Hamilton rather famously argued over the Necessary and Proper Clause. Hamilton thought it ought to be interpreted with a very broad brush, while Jefferson thought "necessary" meant "ZOMG, we're all gonna dieeeeee". It was still included.

Our legal system is a whole thread on it's own.

There is no right to legal representation unless you have been charged with a crime AND are deemed indigent. If you have been detained but not charged, if it is a "civil" matter or if you are not indigent but merely can't afford it, you're screwed.

There is only the right to representation in your taxation authority (no taxation without representation).


DG is right. Thomas Jefferson and, I think, Alexander Hamilton rather famously argued over the Necessary and Proper Clause. Hamilton thought it ought to be interpreted with a very broad brush, while Jefferson thought "necessary" meant "ZOMG, we're all gonna dieeeeee". It was still included. Originally Posted by EmilyHemingway

I think I am in love.

I think I am in love.

Originally Posted by rekcaSxT

Secret: I think you're something else too. That must have been the fourth time in a 24-hour period where I stated in public I disagreed with you, and you haven't once called me any sort of name or said/implied I ought to slink back to Ladies Only where I belonged. That is... beyond refreshing.

If that's the calibre of man to be found in D&T, then forget Co-Ed. I'm a D&T lady from here on out.

He's a wine spitter too.

If that's the calibre of man to be found in D&T, then forget Co-Ed. I'm a D&T lady from here on out. Originally Posted by EmilyHemingway

Actually most of us are jackasses

So, has anyone seen the Billy Jack movies?

So, has anyone seen the Billy Jack movies? Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius

and his wife dolores?

But when you allow freedoms on both dimensions, thats when you get to libertarians. Originally Posted by pjorourke

I used to think that, but after reading a number of the policy position papers from the Cato Institute, I've come to a rather different conclusion. They are rather selective in what they consider those freedoms to be. For example, they favor so-called free trade with other nations, yet for that to translate into real capitalism, the workforce needs the same freedom to move across those same borders. I don't see a policy position paper on allowing U.S. and Chinese citizens to freely travel between the U.S. and China to compete for jobs. Instead, outsourcing takes advantage of the fact that workers cannot freely move between countries while goods and services can.

The Cato Institute also takes the position that the government should give vouchers to parents who send their kids to private schools. Huh? Everyone with no kids at all pays for public schools, so whatever parents decide to do to educate their kids shouldn't cost the rest of us (especially those of us without kids) to pay more if they decide to opt out of the public school system.

The basic tenet of a libertarian is that the government's job is to enforce contracts. However, the definition of a contract is whatever the government says it is, so that is basically meaningless. In addition, why should the government provide that service at the expense of taxpayers? I'm more inclined to go for anarchy. Finally, the term ``libertarian'' is somewhat ambiguous. There are ``big L'' Libertarians and ``little l'' libertarians.

I'm more inclined to go for anarchy. Originally Posted by npita

i've been storing evian for years...and i have four machine gun nests at each corner of my property..where roses once bloomed