MAP SHOWS HIGH GUN OWNERSHIP = LOW CRIME

So what? We have higher crime rates therefore we have more criminals who can be put in jail. You’re willfully ignoring the obvious, Speedy. More criminals, more crime, more murders; so you’re comparing apples to oranges when you compare the U.S. homicide rate with, say, Germany’s homicide rate and blame it on inanimate objects.

Again, so what? A nice fact totally unrelated to the gun issue. It’s not unrelated to the criminal element that employs guns during crimes, Speedy. Go ahead and stick your Kool Aid sotted head in the sand and ignore the obvious connection, Speedy: more criminals equates to more gun homicides. Criminals commit the gun homicides, but you and your ilk want to continuously heap the blame on an inanimate object.

You are 100% wrong on the U.S. homicide rate. According to the CDC, which is considered the most reliable source for such data in the U.S., in 2011, 11,101 homicides were committed by the discharge of firearms. 4,852 homicides by other means. I find nothing in the U.N. data that breaks down homicides by gun-related versus non-gun-related. You’re the one who is 100% wrong, Speedy, the data is there. The U.S. non-gun homicide rate is 1.6 per 100,000 which is twice as high as Germany’s total 0.8 per 100,000 homicide rate – btw, "total" includes homicides with guns and homicides without guns: and that info is in the cited U.N. data.

Your are the jackass who brought the data up in the first place, not me. I am simply saying that the data, and all data, is subject to how you interpret it. You’re the jackass ignoring the data, Speedy: http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-a.../homicide.html

Here is your statement from the first post in this thread:

(The data) clearly show that where gun ownership is highest in the world, crime is lowest on a per capita basis. Never made that statement! Perhaps you’d better have your eyes checked, Speedy, it seems you have established a pattern here of missing pertinent information when you read.

When compared to similar countries, that statement is 100% incorrect for the U.S. We have the highest gun ownership per capita in the world and the highest crime rate. I guess you Conservatards just can't grasp that simple fact. You’re wrong again, Speedy, because you are willfully ignoring the criminal element as a factor in the equation in your crusade to blame an inanimate object for a high homicide rate. Further, Mexico and Brazil both have Draconian gun laws -- and a large criminal element engaged in the drug trade, btw -- and few citizens in those countries legally own guns, but the gun homicide rates in those countries soar beyond the rate in the U.S. Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

.

ahhh. so what you're arguing is that we dont need fewer guns. we need fewer dead people. We need homicide control... How about death control? For dead and undead people.

We need to cut down on our non-gun homicides because we're clearly out of control on that. Out of curiosity, forgetting for a moment that you haven't yet compared apples to apples in this discussion, what would you consider behind the horrendously high per capita rate of non-gun related homicides?

and in that light, how is homicide defined in the countries you're measuring? do they things the same way?

Try and be calm when answering these questions...

Originally Posted by IB Hankering
You’re willfully ignoring the obvious, Speedy. More criminals, more crime, more murders; so you’re comparing apples to oranges when you compare the U.S. homicide rate with, say, Germany’s homicide rate and blame it on inanimate objects.
Asshole, once again I will state that I am agreeing with you that demographics come into play more than any other factor in a homicide rate. DO YOU UNDERSTAND!!

It’s not unrelated to the criminal element that employs guns during crimes, Speedy. Go ahead and stick your Kool Aid sotted head in the sand and ignore the obvious connection, Speedy: more criminals equates to more gun homicides. Criminals commit the gun homicides, but you and your ilk want to continuously heap the blame on an
inanimate object.
I know, I know. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Same old NRA rhetoric. Guns just make it easier to kill people. Which is one reason so many people are killed by guns in the U.S.

. You’re the one who is 100% wrong, Speedy, the data is there. The U.S. non-gun homicide rate is 1.6 per 100,000 which is twice as high as Germany’s total 0.8 per 100,000 homicide rate – btw, "total" includes homicides with guns and homicides without guns: and that info is in the cited U.N. data.
Sorry jerk-off. You just don't get it. As I said before, it doesn't matter which source of data you use, UNDOC or CDC, the problem still exists -- the U.S. leads the industrialized world in homicides by guns -- by far. Even an ignorant person as yourself pointed it out by comparing the U.S. to Germany. To what you want to attribute this FACT is up to you. I agree that it has to do more with demographics but the FACT that guns are so easily attainable by criminals certainly helps. My opinion, which is not better or worse than your opinion.

You’re the jackass ignoring the data, Speedy:
We are both interpreting the facts the same way. Both of us area stating the U.S. far and way leads industrialized nations in homicides per capita

(The data) clearly show that where gun ownership is highest in the world, crime is lowest on a per capita basis. Never made that statement! Perhaps you’d better have your eyes checked, Speedy, it seems you have established a pattern here of missing pertinent information when you read.
I apologize. The statement was made by Whirlybird. But unless I am mistaken, you agree 100% with the data.

Maps made by the U.N. office on Drugs and Crime (circa 2007) clearly show that where gun ownership is highest in the world, crime is lowest on a per capita basis.



When compared to similar countries, that statement is 100% incorrect for the U.S. We have the highest gun ownership per capita in the world and the highest crime rate. I guess you Conservatards just can't grasp that simple fact. You’re wrong again, Speedy, because you are willfully ignoring the criminal element as a factor in the equation in your crusade to blame an inanimate object for a high homicide rate. Further, Mexico and Brazil both have Draconian gun laws -- and a large criminal element engaged in the drug trade, btw -- and few citizens in those countries legally own guns, but the gun homicide rates in those countries soar beyond the rate in the U.S.
You need a course in reading comprehension. I distinctly said "When compared to similar countries" . Read it again, and yet again if necessary until you understand that qualification .Mexico and Brazil are hardly similar countries to the U.S. The truth is the truth. I'll say it again WITHOUT PUTTING THE BLAME ON ANY UNDERLYING CAUSES, since you like to somehow read between the lines and believe that I am blaming guns for all homicides. We have the highest gun ownership in the world per capita and the highest homicide rate by guns per capita for countries with similar demographics. We are doing something wrong not matter what the underlying causes. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT???

Asshole, once again I will state that I am agreeing with you that demographics come into play more than any other factor in a homicide rate. DO YOU UNDERSTAND!!

You need a course in reading comprehension. I distinctly said "When compared to similar countries" . Read it again, and yet again if necessary until you understand that qualification .Mexico and Brazil are hardly similar countries to the U.S. The truth is the truth. I'll say it again WITHOUT PUTTING THE BLAME ON ANY UNDERLYING CAUSES, since you like to somehow read between the lines and believe that I am blaming guns for all homicides. We have the highest gun ownership in the world per capita and the highest homicide rate by guns per capita for countries with similar demographics. We are doing something wrong not matter what the underlying causes. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT??? Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

What is the “similar demographic” you are using for your basis, Speedy? The only measure you are using here, Speedy, is gun ownership; hence, your fallacious conclusions, asshole. You’re obviously ignoring and not considering Central and South American drug cartels and the connections they have with street gangs in the U.S.! Now that’s a “shared” not merely “similar” demographic, asshole.

ahhh. so what you're arguing is that we dont need fewer guns. we need fewer dead people. We need homicide control... How about death control? For dead and undead people.

We need to cut down on our non-gun homicides because we're clearly out of control on that. Out of curiosity, forgetting for a moment that you haven't yet compared apples to apples in this discussion, what would you consider behind the horrendously high per capita rate of non-gun related homicides?

and in that light, how is homicide defined in the countries you're measuring? do they things the same way?

Try and be calm when answering these questions... Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

"Criminals" are behind the horrendously high per capita homicide rate, you perennially asinine jackass. Speaking of "dead" people, Assup the jackass, it's a damn good thing you're not hooked up to a life support system -- the doctors would disconnect you for obvious lack of brain wave activity.

Criminals are behind the high non-gun homicide rate then? WOW! Seems like that's the crux of your argument. Not gun violence but non-gun homicide, which is double that of the Germans, where gun violence is, well, microscopic. M

Oh, then its simple. You're saying we REALLY need better criminal control.

You dont think maybe you might have overlooked the possibility that the homicides committed by drivers every year in this, the most auto-intensive country on earth, may have something to do with your screwy skewed stats? Surely you don't think we need more guns to protect us from all those sledge hammer killers out there? We also need laws for DWD, driving while a DIPSHIT!

You can't defend your stats IBSyndrome, because you don't understand what the fuck you're looking at.

Go home, study up and then maybe you can talk with the grown folks!

Criminals are behind the high non-gun homicide rate then? WOW! Seems like that's the crux of your argument. Not gun violence but non-gun homicide, which is double that of the Germans, where gun violence is, well, microscopic. M

Oh, then its simple. You're saying we REALLY need better criminal control.

You dont think maybe you might have overlooked the possibility that the homicides committed by drivers every year in this, the most auto-intensive country on earth, may have something to do with your screwy skewed stats? Surely you don't think we need more guns to protect us from all those sledge hammer killers out there? We also need laws for DWD, driving while a DIPSHIT!

You can't defend your stats IBSyndrome, because you don't understand what the fuck you're looking at.

Go home, study up and then maybe you can talk with the grown folks! Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Your post is as convoluted and distorted as your plastic playmate suffering under the weight of your lard ass, Assup the jackass. Even though you claim to "polish" your shit, it still stinks when you post it in the forum, Assup the jackass. Go back to squeak, squeak, squeaking with you plastic playmate until one or the other of you “pops”, Assup the jackass.

How about answering my question? Rebutting my points?

We all know why you're wormy. But this isn't about your affinity for fecal matter.

I'm just trying to understand the jist of your argument here. I took issue with your decision to try and prove a point about gun ownership and crime by comparing the non-gun related per capita homicide rate in the US vs Germany.

what does that mean?

You haven't yet attempted to relate that to gun regulation, or, as I have suggested, auto related deaths, many of which are considered homicide by the US. I won't even address the ridiculous rebuttal you gave to Speedracer...the one where you asserted that the drug cartels in Latin America evened the demographics between Central and South American countries, hence making it a good comparison.

YOW! You showed him, Artist!

At least I got the thoughtful response, you Just making rodent sounds and talking about feces. OK, wormy, its your world!

Just wash your hands for Gods sake! Playing with that nasty stuff can lead to all kinds of problems. but you already know that, don't you, Squirmy?

What is the “similar demographic” you are using for your basis, Speedy? The only measure you are using here, Speedy, is gun ownership; hence, your fallacious conclusions, asshole. You’re obviously ignoring and not considering Central and South American drug cartels and the connections they have with street gangs in the U.S.! Now that’s a “shared” not merely “similar” demographic, asshole.

This should not be hard to figure out. And the measure I am using is GUN OWNERSHIP PER CAPITA VS. HOMICIDES BY GUNS PER CAPITA. U.S. demographics to which I am referring are income levels, education levels, poverty levels, etc.. Countries such as Canada, Australia, Germany, England, Spain, Italy, Japan, France, Belgium, Norway, Sweden, Finland, and others are comparable to the U.S. Highly industrialized countries. And when you compare the U.S. to those countries we have many more guns per capita and many, many, many more homicides by guns per capita. Only an idiot would point to countries such as Mexico, Central American countries, and South American Countries as being comparable to the U.S. in any way.

And how many of the U.S. homicides do you think are due to drug cartels? Come on!! Get real!! And if you REALLY believe it is a significant number, I'd appreciate some FACTS to back it up.

Criminals are behind the high non-gun homicide rate then? WOW! Seems like that's the crux of your argument. Not gun violence but non-gun homicide, which is double that of the Germans, where gun violence is, well, microscopic. M

Oh, then its simple. You're saying we REALLY need better criminal control.

You dont think maybe you might have overlooked the possibility that the homicides committed by drivers every year in this, the most auto-intensive country on earth, may have something to do with your screwy skewed stats? Surely you don't think we need more guns to protect us from all those sledge hammer killers out there? We also need laws for DWD, driving while a DIPSHIT!

You can't defend your stats IBSyndrome, because you don't understand what the fuck you're looking at.

Go home, study up and then maybe you can talk with the grown folks! Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Criminal Statistics isn't your forte jerkoff. Don't give up your day job at Burger King, ya stupid jackass.

How about answering my question? Rebutting my points?

We all know why you're wormy. But this isn't about your affinity for fecal matter.

I'm just trying to understand the jist of your argument here. I took issue with your decision to try and prove a point about gun ownership and crime by comparing the non-gun related per capita homicide rate in the US vs Germany.

what does that mean?

You haven't yet attempted to relate that to gun regulation, or, as I have suggested, auto related deaths, many of which are considered homicide by the US. I won't even address the ridiculous rebuttal you gave to Speedracer...the one where you asserted that the drug cartels in Latin America evened the demographics between Central and South American countries, hence making it a good comparison.

YOW! You showed him, Artist!

At least I got the thoughtful response, you Just making rodent sounds and talking about feces. OK, wormy, its your world!

Just wash your hands for Gods sake! Playing with that nasty stuff can lead to all kinds of problems. but you already know that, don't you, Squirmy? Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

You have no "points", you perennial jackass. You're too fearful points might puncture your plastic playmate, Assup the jackass.

What is the “similar demographic” you are using for your basis, Speedy? The only measure you are using here, Speedy, is gun ownership; hence, your fallacious conclusions, asshole. You’re obviously ignoring and not considering Central and South American drug cartels and the connections they have with street gangs in the U.S.! Now that’s a “shared” not merely “similar” demographic, asshole.

This should not be hard to figure out. And the measure I am using is GUN OWNERSHIP PER CAPITA VS. HOMICIDES BY GUNS PER CAPITA. U.S. demographics to which I am referring are income levels, education levels, poverty levels, etc.. Countries such as Canada, Australia, Germany, England, Spain, Italy, Japan, France, Belgium, Norway, Sweden, Finland, and others are comparable to the U.S. Highly industrialized countries. And when you compare the U.S. to those countries we have many more guns per capita and many, many, many more homicides by guns per capita. Only an idiot would point to countries such as Mexico, Central American countries, and South American Countries as being comparable to the U.S. in any way.

And how many of the U.S. homicides do you think are due to drug cartels? Come on!! Get real!! And if you REALLY believe it is a significant number, I'd appreciate some FACTS to back it up. Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

You’re ridiculous, Speedy. Earlier you said demographic factors other than gun ownership are more important that gun ownership; yet, once again you present an argument that has as its base the sole issue of gun ownership! Once again, for your re-edification, the U.S. non-gun homicide rate was double Germany’s total homicide rate. Those U.S. homicides happened and there were NO guns involved, Speedy, signifying other issues are at play will you and other libratards quibble over the weapon of choice.

BTW, remember this little factoid next time you or one of your libratard buddies wants to partake of some illicit recreational substance “that doesn’t hurt anybody”:

“Among juvenile drug sellers who owned a firearm, 42 percent reported using a gun in a crime; among gang members, 50 percent reported using a gun.” http://www.ojjdp.gov/pubs/gun_violence/sect01.html

IBMeltingdown DAY TWO.

You still haven't addressed my contentions, attempted to rebut my positions or answered the questions I posted in response to your serious and thoughtful posting about non-gun related homicide in the US vs Germany and the inconsistencies therein.

Shall I conclude from your intelligent and stimulating retorts that you prefer to sully us and the rest of this august assembly with your continued insults, personal attacks and heaving of animal growlers? I guess that's easier than having to receive your own buttocks...

If not, then simply continue the debate.

IBMeltingdown DAY TWO.

You still haven't addressed my contentions, attempted to rebut my positions or answered the questions I posted in response to your serious and thoughtful posting about non-gun related homicide in the US vs Germany and the inconsistencies therein.

Shall I conclude from your intelligent and stimulating retorts that you prefer to sully us and the rest of this august assembly with your continued insults, personal attacks and heaving of animal growlers? I guess that's easier than having to receive your own buttocks...

If not, then simply continue the debate. Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

You're the one too ignorant to understand that all of your "contentions" have been addressed, Assup the jackass. Please re-read the posts provided, and if after you've re-read the posts you still fail to comprehend, Assup the jackass, you can call: 1-800 EAT-SHIT.

I don't see where you addressed any of it? You just bluster and rage.

What does the per capita rate of non-gun homicide In America have to do with the number of gun deaths?

What comprised those non-gun homicides?

Do you have any evidence that the Central and South American drug wars have influenced the homicide rate in the US?

Do Central and South American drug cartels' ongoing war somehow make the demographics of those countries comparable to those of the United States?

Now, you're actually trying to explain gun violence stats using a report from 1994-96? Janet Reno's office issued that report. JANET RENO! Are you serious?

THESE ARE ALL THINGS YOU'VE BEEN FIGHTING OVER, BUT WITHOUT A SHRED OF EVIDENCE OR SUPPORT. YOU SIMPLY STAMP YOUR FOOT LIKE A BABY HAVING A TANTRUM AND THEN FLING WORMY FECES AT EVERYBODY.

I'd like to see some support for your claims. Just because you scream and rage doesn't make something true ... Or logical ... Or in your case comprehensible.

I don't see where you addressed any of it? You just bluster and rage.

What does the per capita rate of non-gun homicide In America have to do with the number of gun deaths?

What comprised those non-gun homicides?

Do you have any evidence that the Central and South American drug wars have influenced the homicide rate in the US?

Do Central and South American drug cartels' ongoing war somehow make the demographics of those countries comparable to those of the United States?

Now, you're actually trying to explain gun violence stats using a report from 1994-96? Are you serious?

THESE ARE ALL THINGS YOU'VE BEEN FIGHTING OVER, BUT WITHOUT A SHRED OF EVIDENCE OR SUPPORT. YOU SIMPLY STAMP YOUR FOOT LIKE A BABY HAVING A TANTRUM AND THEN FLING WORMY FECES AT EVERYBODY.

I'd like to see some support for your claims. Just because you scream and rage doesn't make something true ... Or logical ... Or in your case comprehensible. Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Since you're still suffering with comprehension problems, Assup the jackass, you can call: 1-800-EAT-SHIT.