Oh Dear! Did the Trump Tax Cuts Really "Pay For Themselves"?

And apparently, neither are you. I just figured it was their private room and didn't want to barge in. Did you have a VIP reservation or something? Besides, you are infringing on my rights to be a Peeping Tom in this venture. Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

This is not private. If I do not always respond to your posts it's because there's no need to minister to you. You understand free markets very well. In fact, you are invited to become an ordained minister in the Free Markets Church of Tiny. You will receive 50% of any contributions from members brought to the Church through your efforts. And you can officiate at weddings and funerals.

Tiny, that clown is not referring to you. He is referencing my awesomeness. Unfortunately, I don't go back and forth in this forum with old geezers with an IQ under 80 any longer. I thought I was rather clear about that. So sorry gramps, no attention from me for you. Just remember though, you'll continue to read my posts and I think so little of your intelligence that I don't even bother reading your posts unless you are quoted.

Let the circle jerk under 80 IQ group begin. As always, please feel free to try to insult me and get it all out. I'm not an RTM hitting pussy, so I really don't care. If it makes you feel better, it makes me feel better and more appreciated too.

... In fact, you are invited to become an ordained minister in the Free Markets Church of Tiny. You will receive 50% of any contributions from members brought to the Church through your efforts. And you can officiate at weddings and funerals. Originally Posted by Tiny

You're that Bernie Madeoff guy. I thought you died. Are you in some witness protection program?

BTW: On the finances side of my equation I went half-pregnant bearish about a year ago and bifurcate my stash, about 40% out of stock and into inflation favoring bonds, annuities and what-not. Central idea being a lock-box (hat tip to Al the Gore), projected to cover 5-10 years of expenses. Then 6 months ago, most of the rest out of stocks while they were still soaring, riding the FAANG and others. My obvious soft landing plan is to swoop back heavy into stocks, once we see when the head winds are gonna stop blowing. Either that or we all get fused in to a world sized glass ashtray - in which case, none of this matters.

The three of yall's (or is it all yall's) back-n-forth has been educational.

You always have to lie to cover up your original lie(s).

I never said that 6 trillion was the only reason.

My thoughts have not changed on your beloved Voodoo economics. You just embrace "voodoo" ideas when you think they make you sound intelligent. I do not believe Corporations are not either good or bad. Naaah... you just love their dividends and stock price gains even while you pose as a faux populist working class defender and lash out incoherently at "unfretted (sic) capitalism". You're a complete phony lol. I do believe/know that if you give away 6 trillion it will enhance the stock market...just like low low intrest (sic) rates do. As an economist you too should know these basic things.

Seriously? You're presuming to lecture ME about what drives the stock market? That's hilarious! Listen, you dumbass - the primary determinant of stock prices is after-tax corporate earnings. Which means the best way to juice the market is to cut corporate taxes! Just like Trump did. Dumping $6 trillion of wasteful spending into the economy in the hope it will all trickle down to stock prices is a fool's game. All that does is goose inflation, which is bearish for stocks. Here's a thought - instead of bragging about your portfolio gains, why don't just say "Thank you, Donald!" At least Trump was smart enough to pick the policy (lower corporate tax rate) that most directly matches your objective of higher stock prices.

I'm far from partisan...just because I pointed out certain negative aspects of unfretted (sic) capitalism such as income inequity (sic) which your dumbass posts inadvertently posts (sic) about as some great way to raise taxes.

You're more partisan than Donald Trump. The only time you're not partisan is when you are incoherent, as in the above. What is "unfretted" capitalism? What does capitalism "fret" about? Your limp penis? (If a cure can be found, capitalism will deliver it.) What is income "inequity"? Did you learn that word in your Social Justice Warrior training class?

I suggest you "re-examine the assumptions behind the original CBO forecasts and see if we can dissect how much of the revenue surge may be attributable to different variables" before posting a thread such as this which you try and attribute the Trump tax cuts to this surge in tax revenue.

I suggest you do perform that exercise yourself, then come back and report your findings here. Why do you always expect CM, Tiny and me to do the heavy lifting for you? Aren't you eager to show everyone you, too, can run with the Big Dogs?

However since your dumbass started such a silly thread with this flawed premise that the Trump tax cuts are credited with the surge in tax revenues without mentioning 6 trillion in giveaways is telling. And you are now having to lie about what I've said and my economic beliefs....any conclusion you draw would have to be viewed with skepticism. Originally Posted by WTF

Tax cuts are expansionary. They act as a stimulus. As such, they make the economy grow faster than it would otherwise. Faster growth yields higher tax revenues. Do you deny all this? The US Treasury is currently enjoying a revenue surge fueled, in part, by the Trump tax cuts. Even the Brookings economist you linked us to (without understanding a word of his article) admitted economists were projecting an average revenue spurt/clawback equivalent to 25% of the amount of the original tax cut. That was back in 2019. This "dynamic" effect appears even greater now. I never credited ALL of the revenue surge to the tax cuts. My thread title is a question, not a statement of fact. You're the bozo who worships Art Laffer, not me.

Evidently you haven't a clue between progressive and regressive taxes. You seem not to understand that Federal income tax in (sic) not the only form of tax revenue. You seem in such a hurry to paint a negative picture of what I've said so as not to grasp what idiotic assumptions you either unintentionally or intentionally make. Either way....you sound idiotic.

To talk about the "tax system" and not take into account all the various taxing entities is really a partisan hawkish conversation.

And btw there is a mythical efficient tax rate... Originally Posted by WTF

More incoherence. The taxes that were lowered in the TCJA are highly progressive. Those are the tax cuts you've been stupidly attacking as ineffective and (echoing your dim-retard talking points) give-aways to the rich. If you want to talk about other taxes, start another thread.

What does "partisan hawkish" mean? Super-partisan? And what is a "mythical" efficient tax rate? Is that like Bigfoot or the Loch Ness Monster?

You're lying yet again...

I pointed out that the bullshit argument about the corporate tax cut in relation to other countries not being apples to apples and asked Tiny or you to maybe do the right thing and tell us what the "effective" corporate tax rate was, instead of using the stated as if that was what was actually paid.

More deflection. And wrong. The TCJA didn't just lower rates, it also broadened the base. That means it reduced or eliminated provisions that allowed some corporations and individuals to pay a lower effective rate (e.g. it capped the SALT deduction at $10k). Plus when you lower the statutory rate, you lessen incentives to seek ways to avoid paying. But go ahead and tell us what the effective rate is now. Don't be lazy and ask Tiny to do it for you.

I've advocated a way to actually cut spending is to raise taxes so that taxpayers have to make the choice of say do they want a War in Iraq then instead of a tax cut....

Great idea! Let's list all the wasteful federal programs on IRS Form 1040 and allow each taxpayer to opt out of paying for the ones they don't approve of! I like making choices for myself! I'm all-in on your brilliant idea, WTF!

So please quit lying or continue to do so and I'll continue to bitch slap you regularly. Originally Posted by WTF

Funny how every time you take a swing at me, you end up bitch slapping yourself! Keep practicing, Captain Kirk!

Satan and Paul Krugman have hardened your heart. But there is salvation for all God's children. So I keep trying.

Comparison of progressivity is done with mathematical calculations. You split the population up into deciles or whatever and then divide the average tax rates for the higher deciles by rates for lower deciles and compare between countries. The average rate is the total tax paid divided by the total income for the decile. So I don't understand your last sentence.

Maybe this will help. In Germany, once you hit $61,500 per year in income, your marginal tax rate is 42%. And you indirectly pay a 19% value added tax on the things you buy. In Texas, which has no state income tax, the marginal rate at $61,500 is only 22%. Sales tax is about 9%. So you're roughly going to have to double taxes on someone making $61,500 per year to get to where Germany is.

The marginal rate maxes out in Germany at 45%, at $292,000. In Texas, it maxes out at 37% to 40.8%, depending on the nature of the ordinary income. I pay at a marginal rate of 40.8%. To put me at the German level you'd only be able to increase my marginal rate by 10%.

The maximum capital gains and dividend tax rate in both countries is about the same, 23.8% in the USA and 25% in Germany, although the U.S. capital gains and dividends rate schedule is much more progressive than Germany's.

In other words, if you want a tax system like Germany's, you're going to have to raise taxes a lot more on the middle class than on the well off. There would be hell to pay for any politician who tried to double the income tax rate and the sales / VAT tax rate on the middle class. Originally Posted by Tiny

Holy shit...you are only focusing on the progressive side of our tax streams! They are talking about the taxing system as a whole.

Now someone from Dallas tell me the best bbq there....I'm headed to Lochart if I don't hear better.

Look...I'm no economist....but that does not mean I can't sniff... assholes .... and your boy lusty ... Originally Posted by WTF

Ugh! Go sniff someone else's asshole, you fucking pervert! You disgust me!

Holy shit...you are only focusing on the progressive side of our tax streams! They are talking about the taxing system as a whole.

Now someone from Dallas tell me the best bbq there....I'm headed to Lochart if I don't hear better. Originally Posted by WTF

Aagh!!! Since when are sales and value added taxes progressive? I give up.

Here is lustynut getting owned at the Harvard Bar...
https://youtu.be/lCvX1QA7FWQ Originally Posted by WTF

Robin Williams killed himself in exasperation at how utterly stupid and unteachable you are.

Here you are sniffing your own asshole after everyone shunned you!

Disgusting!

Now someone from Dallas tell me the best bbq there....I'm headed to Lochart if I don't hear better. Originally Posted by WTF

The Pecan Lodge is good in Deep Ellum. I think it is better than Lockhart but that's just my preference. I don't think you can really go wrong with either one.

Sorry for the disruption, you and Tiny can continue now.

Aagh!!! Since when are sales and value added taxes progressive? I give up. Originally Posted by Tiny

They're not....and when you add sales taxes into our equation were are not as progressive as you think.

So yes we have the most progressive tax but that is only a portion of our tax system....don't give up yet, you're about to fall into the sweet spot!

The Pecan Lodge is good in Deep Ellum. I think it is better than Lockhart but that's just my preference. I don't think you can really go wrong with either one.

Sorry for the disruption, you and Tiny can continue now. Originally Posted by Lucas McCain

I did Lockhart...there beans and deviled eggs were the best ever. The spicey mac was pretty good too. Beef and Pork Ribs were spot on but not as good as their beans.

I need to bring Tiny a quart of those beans to help him blow out that Voodoo economic butt plug that is backing him up! He can't seem to figure out how proportionality of the progressive taxes effects the overall

Tax cuts are expansionary. They act as a stimulus. As such, they make the economy grow faster than it would otherwise. Faster growth yields higher tax revenues. Do you deny all this?

Yes!

The US Treasury is currently enjoying a revenue surge fueled, in part, by the Trump tax cuts. Even the Brookings economist you linked us to (without understanding a word of his article) admitted economists were projecting an average revenue spurt/clawback equivalent to 25% of the amount of the original tax cut. That was back in 2019. This "dynamic" effect appears even greater now. I never credited ALL of the revenue surge to the tax cuts. My thread title is a question, not a statement of fact. You're the bozo who worships Art Laffer, not me. Originally Posted by lustylad

Point of order:

I'm no economist either, but that doesn't mean I can't smell coochie.

Why do so many corporations horde their tax cut money rather than stimulate the economy? You know. Giving it back to share holders in dividends, buy their own stock to benefit Wall Street and Fifth Avenue only, or just hide it in a shelter.

Sorry for the interruption, you and WTF can continue now.

They're not....and when you add sales taxes into our equation were (sic) not as progressive as you think.

So yes we have the most progressive tax but that is only a portion of our tax system.... Originally Posted by WTF

You're an idiot. And you're wasting everyone's time beating yet another dead horse. Here's a thread CM started 7 years ago. It doesn't matter whether you look at US individual income taxes in isolation or as part of our overall tax regime - we have the most steeply progressive system in the industrialized world.

https://eccie.net/showthread.php?t=1325605

CM, Tiny and I are all in agreement - you are an idiot.