US Credit Rating....tick..tick..tick

We either need to cut spending -- and quite drastically (fat chance) -- or simply give up and admit that we've traveled a long way on the path toward becoming a European-style social democracy, and impose a huge tax on the middle class -- such as a VAT. That would insure slow growth for many years, and it obviously wouldn't be very popular with Mr. and Mrs. Middle America.

The only other choice is to continue kicking the can down the road until we suffer a horrific fiscal calamity.

Well, it is all a question of interpretation

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...e-medicaid.php

In a McClatchy-Marist poll released this week, 70% of registered voters who identify with the Tea Party opposed making cuts to either Medicare or Medicaid -- the government-run health programs for the elderly and the poor -- to help reduce the nation's deficit. Meanwhile, only 28% of tea partiers said they'd be willing to cut spending on those two programs.
Tea partiers were not alone in opposing Medicare and Medicaid cuts. An overwhelming 80% of all respondents said they opposed such cuts, with a majority of every demographic measured in the survey lining up against them.


Ninety-two percent (92%) of Democrats opposed cutting Medicare and Medicaid, as did 73% of Republicans, and 75% of independents. Originally Posted by TPM Article

Nobody wants to cut Medicare & SS -- those are bedrock social programs. But the point is we have to or left alone, they will break the country.

I read that article and note that the Tea party folks are less opposed to cutting Medicare & Medicaid than any other demographic. (You'l note that they didn't ask about SS.)

I also note that cutting a benefit is politically different than delaying its start -- although the financial effect is the same. Cutting a benefit means taking food out of grandma's mouth as opposed to working a few extra months until you retire. Ask the question that way and see if you don't get a different answer. People ract much better to graduated change than to undefined "cuts".

In short, your survey reference isn't worth the paper it is printed on.

We either need to cut spending -- and quite drastically (fat chance) -- or simply give up and admit that we've traveled a long way on the path toward becoming a European-style social democracy, and impose a huge tax on the middle class -- such as a VAT. That would insure slow growth for many years, and it obviously wouldn't be very popular with Mr. and Mrs. Middle America.

The only other choice is to continue kicking the can down the road until we suffer a horrific fiscal calamity. Originally Posted by CaptainMidnight

Word!

People ract much better to graduated change than to undefined "cuts". Originally Posted by pjorourke

Kinda like the difference between throwing a frog in boiling water and throwing it in room temperature water and slowly bringing the water to a boil.

What part of we can't afford this deal don't you understand Chuck?

Its either something gradual, that makes demographic sense -- or we put in a middle class tax like the VAT they have in Europe. Take your pick. I have mine. Just don't give me any of that crap about taxing the rich or cutting their benefits -- there just aren't enough of the little buggers to make a difference.

This thread almost makes me despair of a solution to the very real problem we face. We'll be like Greece, refusing to accept cuts in "entitlements" until the bitter end. I do believe the founders are turning over in their graves.

Well, it is all a question of interpretation



Nobody wants to cut Medicare & SS -- those are bedrock social programs. But the point is we have to or left alone, they will break the country.
Originally Posted by pjorourke

Baghdad Bob is that you? 28% of the Tea Party Folks want to cut , 2% are undecided.

Since when did you have trouble reading a poll?

Are you a paid spokesman for the Tea Party? You sound like their PR guy. Either way you credibility is sinking on this issue.

I also note that cutting a benefit is politically different than delaying its start -- although the financial effect is the same. Cutting a benefit means taking food out of grandma's mouth as opposed to working a few extra months until you retire. Ask the question that way and see if you don't get a different answer. People ract much better to graduated change than to undefined "cuts".
Originally Posted by pjorourke

Oh I agree with you, we need to do something. How about this one. Once you take Medicare benifits you no longer can vote.

In short, your survey reference isn't worth the paper it is printed on. Originally Posted by pjorourke

We have already established your credibility on the issue.

We could start lowering life expediency.

That's what Obamacare is for!!!!! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! Already women are being denied breast cancer drugs under Obama.........
Which do you prefer?

We can not afford the current system. It was not set up with people living as long as they do. Look the good thing is we live longer, the bad thing is the government does not have the money to be able to pay you for that advancement in science.

Originally SS was set up for payments to begin [or could begin] at 62 when life expectancy was 60.........Also, you can complain about medical costs, but medicine is much better today than 10, 20 or 30 years ago.....2011 medical technology costs more, but there's not many things better to spend money on than better health and longer life.....

PJ is correct on this issue as much as it pains me to say. Originally Posted by WTF

,

What part of we can't afford this deal don't you understand Chuck?

. Originally Posted by pjorourke

We can afford it...we just can not afford it all. Military all over the world and health care.

And btw, the rich might not be able to make up the entire difference but that does not mean we should not overhaul the fuc'd up tax system and cut out all their loopholes.

Yesterday it was reported that OPEC is cutting oil production because of a world glut. Today it was reported that locally we have 7.5 % less gasoline than a year ago so gas prices are going up quite a bit more over the next week. Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius

Saudi Arabia was sending a message to the Obama Administration that it doesn't like US Middle East policy....that's what that was about.....

Everybody has a death panel at some point.

It is called running out of money. Originally Posted by WTF

other people's money......

We either need to cut spending -- and quite drastically (fat chance) -- or simply give up and admit that we've traveled a long way on the path toward becoming a European-style social democracy, and impose a huge tax on the middle class -- such as a VAT. That would insure slow growth for many years, and it obviously wouldn't be very popular with Mr. and Mrs. Middle America.

The only other choice is to continue kicking the can down the road until we suffer a horrific fiscal calamity. Originally Posted by CaptainMidnight

We won't slip into European-style social democracy.....we'll muddle on for a while then suffer a horrific fiscal calamity before getting back on the RIGHT track......I tend to believe the polls WTF references.......people won't give up on a benefit that pays them much more than they ever paid into it......it's human nature.....they won't give it up, it needs to be lost.....liberals are smart about this....they know what to give the people to stay in power......Republicans will have to fall on the political sword to do the right thing.....they'd rather stay in power than do the right thing, just like dums......

We can afford it...we just can not afford it all. Military all over the world and health care.

And btw, the rich might not be able to make up the entire difference but that does not me we should not overhaul the fuc'd up tax system and cut out all their loopholes. Originally Posted by WTF

Yes, those RICH people will miss their mortgage interest deduction loophole.......

Yes, those RICH people will miss their mortgage interest deduction loophole....... Originally Posted by Marshall

Except thats not really a major benefit for the "rich". Its more for the upper middle class. The biggest "tax break" for the rich is that they don't have to sell their assets and realize the income. No tax code tinkering will change that.

Saudi Arabia was sending a message to the Obama Administration that it doesn't like US Middle East policy....that's what that was about..... Originally Posted by Marshall

No shit, they saw WTF happened in Egypt and ain't about to let Obama make that same mistake again.

other people's money...... Originally Posted by Marshall

Well then quit crying about the damn Death panels. Either you understand the situtation or not.

Except thats not really a major benefit for the "rich". Its more for the upper middle class. . Originally Posted by pjorourke

PJ is correct, you can only take it up to a certain amount, so it does not benifit you after a certain amount.

Poor folks that own a shitty home probably aren't paying Fed tax anyway.

The biggest "tax break" for the rich is that they don't have to sell their assets and realize the income. No tax code tinkering will change that. Originally Posted by pjorourke

That is why President WTF would change the estate tax and slap it on a dead mans ass!