When A Provider Wants To Get To Know A Hobbyist ... How Much Convo Is Really Necessary To Be Comfortable With Performing A Session? A Question Asked ... By A "voice" That Cries Out In The Wilderness = )

People should put their big boy/girl pants on and just speak their minds regardless of some vocal minority Originally Posted by SpiceItUp

personally I think they don't post because of the vocal majority

.. locker room, frat house environment fits. Originally Posted by LexusLover

and the above statement brings me to this statement...majority...mob...I think frat house works but to me it's more like the old Roman glory days and catering to the mob mentality

Back to the original topic/question:

The provider's time and effort to get comfortable with a guest should be on the provider's meter, and not mine, and if the provider needs "bonding" time to feel "connected" to the guest, then the "bonding" time should also be on the provider's meter.

I don't ask for a "discount" in the amount to be paid for a session to get acquainted with the provider so I can feel more comfortable with the provider, and the provider shouldn't expect to be paid for the "get acquainted" time with the guest .... to the tune of 30-45 minutes out of the 60 for the session. All that should have done with "mutual screening."

Let's be frank .. 1st meetings, like first dates, are often awkward ... but like Spice said ..

"put on your big boy/girl pants" .... or even better, your "adult pants."

Idea: You want to get acquainted and have him cleaned up. Take a shower together.

I guess I should start looking harder for the "all in fun" part. Most of my life I always considered "hobbies" as being pleasant, rewarding, and positive experiences. I speak my mind, "regardless of some vocal minority" or mods, and my "bog boy" pants were on for sometime, but they've been replaced with "adult pants" for sometime as well.

.. locker room, frat house environment fits. Originally Posted by LexusLover

personally I think they don't post because of the vocal majority


and the above statement brings me to this statement...majority...mob...I think frat house works but to me it's more like the old Roman glory days and catering to the mob mentality Originally Posted by JustMeCLTXGG

I disagree about the percentages but in principle I agree with you guys and wasn't referring to you specifically.

But, nothing is catered to or nurtured. I just don't feel like it's anyone's right to dictate what other adults can and can't talk about unless it is expressly forbidden in the guidelines. The site owners feel the same way apparently.

Some people take offense at some things that others find hilarious. Others think no one should ever be allowed to be offended and draconian censorship measures should be enacted to avoid such a thing. When you ask 100 people though who should decide what is considered offensive and according to what criteria, you get 100 different responses. And therein lies the problem.

Like every message board on the internet this is, to some extent, a microcosm of the real world. Idiots and assholes abound. If you can't learn to spot them and navigate around them then you're going to have a tough time of it.

Trying to forcibly create some "Kinder and Gentler Eccie" is a farce. All that is needed to change the culture is more people of like mind not engaging in the behavior they find unacceptable and elevating the conversations above the lowest common denominator. If those same people simultaneously ignore, marginalize, or publicly call out/shame the ones whose behavior they dislike then eventually a shift will take place as more and more people join their ranks.

It has to happen organically though and be rooted in and driven by the membership. Have a problem with a misogynist asshole being a misogynist asshole? Say something about it. Don't want to get involved? Ok fine. Either way the freedom is yours, and the guy/girl you disagree with has just as much right to their opinions as you do yours.

Nothing is catered to or nurtured that the members themselves do not allow to continue.

I disagree about the percentages but in principle I agree with you guys and wasn't referring to you specifically.

But, nothing is catered to or nurtured. I just don't feel like it's anyone's right to dictate what other adults can and can't talk about unless it is expressly forbidden in the guidelines. The site owners feel the same way apparently.

Some people take offense at some things that others find hilarious. Others think no one should ever be allowed to be offended and draconian censorship measures should be enacted to avoid such a thing. When you ask 100 people though who should decide what is considered offensive and according to what criteria, you get 100 different responses. And therein lies the problem.

Like every message board on the internet this is, to some extent, a microcosm of the real world. Idiots and assholes abound. If you can't learn to spot them and navigate around them then you're going to have a tough time of it.

Trying to forcibly create some "Kinder and Gentler Eccie" is a farce. All that is needed to change the culture is more people of like mind not engaging in the behavior they find unacceptable and elevating the conversations above the lowest common denominator. If those same people simultaneously ignore, marginalize, or publicly call out/shame the ones whose behavior they dislike eventually a shift will take place as more and more people join their ranks.

It has to happen organically though and be rooted in and driven by the membership. Have a problem with a misogynist asshole being a misogynist asshole? Say something about it. Don't want to get involved? Ok fine. Either way the freedom is yours, and the guy/girl you disagree with has just as much right to their opinions as you do yours.

Nothing is catered to or nurtured that the members themselves do not allow to continue. Originally Posted by SpiceItUp

not sure what you meant by referring to us specifically. never thought you were in any sense.

also, let me say, very well said and I agree with you wholeheartedly. 99.99%.

now that being said, it's very simple and it's the basics. the vocal majority here is the misogynist assholes or the ones catering to them. the ones who disagree mostly are not vocal. obviously being vocal is not the nature of such a group and therein lies the conundrum/rub. it would take an evolution of sorts for such a thing to happen or some leader of sorts of this type of nature. something I don't see happening as this person would have to be aware of the members in agreement, many of which lurk and then rally them to start being vocal.

and to be more clear, I feel the OP doesn't want to post the negative because he doesn't want to deal with the majority starting a big drama filled thread about it. if this was a simple he said, she said and everyone went about the their business I feel he might be more inclined to post. (whether I agree or not. and I don't mind disclosing that I agree this is a place to get helpful info and that I find negatives helpful. heck, I got an itch to see one provider specifically because of a "no" review go figure). who knows tho, maybe he knows she is friends with another provider he wants to see also so he's playing that card. either way his decision is obviously not being met with objectiveness. so seems like avoiding the drama filled thread didn't happen.

the part I disagree with is that there is plenty of things catered and nutured in threads that are negative. I can't believe you can say you do not see that. by other members I mean. the ones who desent, don't agree with the norm, or fit some atypical mold are regularly bashed left and right which is in violation of the guidelines on a regular basis if it is brought to a technical sense (to a lesser extent see this thread for example). no matter how stupid or weird some consider threads I doubt those posters have felt the freedom to express themselves as it should be felt according the guidelines. and let's be real, there is a difference between a disenting opinion and being a plain old asshole. I think you know that difference and the latter happens way more than the former. and if that's what some consider hilarious that's just sad. pretty sure that's not what you mean by that statement. at least I hope not.

and yes everyone should have some balls so to speak and be able to stand up for themselves or take the critics but not everyone is the same. which you pointed out. so we can't ask for one person to fit a mold but then say not everyone does.

that's my rant.

not sure what you meant by referring to us specifically. never thought you were in any sense.

also, let me say, very well said and I agree with you wholeheartedly. 99.99%.

now that being said, it's very simple and it's the basics. the vocal majority here is the misogynist assholes or the ones catering to them. the ones who disagree mostly are not vocal. obviously being vocal is not the nature of such a group and therein lies the conundrum/rub. it would take an evolution of sorts for such a thing to happen or some leader of sorts of this type of nature. something I don't see happening as this person would have to be aware of the members in agreement, many of which lurk and then rally them to start being vocal.

and to be more clear, I feel the OP doesn't want to post the negative because he doesn't want to deal with the majority starting a big drama filled thread about it. if this was a simple he said, she said and everyone went about the their business I feel he might be more inclined to post. (whether I agree or not. and I don't mind disclosing that I agree this is a place to get helpful info and that I find negatives helpful. heck, I got an itch to see one provider specifically because of a "no" review go figure). who knows tho, maybe he knows she is friends with another provider he wants to see also so he's playing that card. either way his decision is obviously not being met with objectiveness. so seems like avoiding the drama filled thread didn't happen.

the part I disagree with is that there is plenty of things catered and nutured in threads that are negative. I can't believe you can say you do not see that. by other members I mean. the ones who desent, don't agree with the norm, or fit some atypical mold are regularly bashed left and right which is in violation of the guidelines on a regular basis if it is brought to a technical sense (to a lesser extent see this thread for example). no matter how stupid or weird some consider threads I doubt those posters have felt the freedom to express themselves as it should be felt according the guidelines. and let's be real, there is a difference between a disenting opinion and being a plain old asshole. I think you know that difference and the latter happens way more than the former. and if that's what some consider hilarious that's just sad. pretty sure that's not what you mean by that statement. at least I hope not.

and yes everyone should have some balls so to speak and be able to stand up for themselves or take the critics but not everyone is the same. which you pointed out. so we can't ask for one person to fit a mold but then say not everyone does.

that's my rant. Originally Posted by JustMeCLTXGG

Yep, it's an unfortunate reality of the world that in social situations -and this is a form of social interaction- those who are most vocal and pushy tend to dominate the space. I still disagree with you that they are in any way a majority of posters on this board, it only appears that way because of the frequency and volume of the minority's activity.

The funny thing is that the people I have in mind when talking about them are likely different than those you have in mind. It's all subjective.

I have been speaking here not as a moderator but as a member. No red italics=just me talking as any other member. If you'd like to have a discussion about gray area guideline violations, what constitutes them, and the difficulties of applying them fairly and consistently we can do that as well. I felt that was beyond the scope here but I can see the overlap as now you are seemingly getting into some of the gray area rules that are subject to interpretation.

Let's do it in another thread though I think we've hijacked this one quite enough past the original topic lol.

My feeling about the OP is that he's entitled not to share her name obviously. I just think he's doing a disservice to the rest of us. I said before and I'll say again, there are ways to say anything you want that will either not provoke a negative response or will make obvious any agenda-driven opposition that arises. I honestly believe that and we've seen it many times before. Either way, it's his choice to make and he's made it...

Damn you're long winded lol or at least it is when reading it on my phone ��

Brevity is overrated

Brevity is overrated Originally Posted by SpiceItUp

No it ain't.

...but blah blah blippity blah, the thing that bugs me the most about this thread is that AC666 seems to me to be inordinately tolerant of stupid hooktard misbehavior, and if HE got a flea in his girdle about this particular whore she must be a friggin' horrorshow. Naming her probably won't hurt her business but it would benefit the random john who wants to make his choice based on researching her track record.

Paying for pussy shouldn't be so difficult.

Paying for pussy shouldn't be so difficult. Originally Posted by GlobeSpotter

Neither should giving it up for pay either.

Well said. ^^^^^^

Getting fucked should be a lot easier than doing the fucking .... and paying.

Your contention is patently false that a NO review or mentioning negatives will damage your ability to see providers in any way. Phrased in an objective and diplomatic way anyone can say anything at all. If you handle yourself with class and do not come across as having an agenda no one will fault you for sharing your experience.

Where guys run into trouble is in stooping to being inflammatory, insulting, or uncouth not just in the review itself but in any follow up conversations that may occur. If the lady posts a rebuttal thread in Coed it often backfires on someone, I do agree. But my assertion is that it backfires on the one who comes across as full of shit or trying to spin it in some way, not the guy necessarily. The problem is that many guys come on here and just act like absolute assholes so they get no credibility with the ladies and may indeed wind up on various DNS lists, and for good reason.

Anyone who thinks they can't write negative things in a review without repercussions is just ignorant. I've written several NO reviews, each one of them deserved. Even in my Yes reviews I try to objectively detail both the positives AND the negative/less than ideal things that happened or that I observed. I've never had a single problem as a result. Why? Because I'm not an asshole, I don't say things in my review that I wouldn't say in public if it came down to it, and I have no axe to grind nor agenda other than sharing information...the entire point of this site.

Personally I find it hard to take it seriously when I read a total puff piece review that contains nothing even remotely negative in it at all. No experience is 100% ideal, so I know they are leaving things out I just don't know what. Same goes for reviews that are so hostile and emotionally charged that it seems obvious the person is not being objective. Both of those types of reviews are of limited usefulness in my mind. Originally Posted by SpiceItUp

Spice, I have spoken to several of my fellow hobbyists who have found themselves in situations that weren't too good for them after they wrote a negative review or outed a Provider in public. The Provider got fame, free publicity, more appointments ... while the hobbyist was ridiculed openly by her white knights, then attacked by online trolls who seeked to provoke an argument for their own amusement, added to a DNS national blacklist, and now they have trouble seeing other Providers.
I have studied their grievances and they were legitimate, but despite their legitimacy, the consequences for openly publicizing their grievances .... came to haunt them later.

We as hobbyists are not looking for a perfect Provider. We seek and appreciate the company of a lady who is considerate and respectful of our time with them. Nobody likes to be one-upped, scammed, cheated, or robbed during a session.

personally I think they don't post because of the vocal majority


and the above statement brings me to this statement...majority...mob...I think frat house works but to me it's more like the old Roman glory days and catering to the mob mentality Originally Posted by JustMeCLTXGG

Back to the original topic/question:

The provider's time and effort to get comfortable with a guest should be on the provider's meter, and not mine, and if the provider needs "bonding" time to feel "connected" to the guest, then the "bonding" time should also be on the provider's meter.

I don't ask for a "discount" in the amount to be paid for a session to get acquainted with the provider so I can feel more comfortable with the provider, and the provider shouldn't expect to be paid for the "get acquainted" time with the guest .... to the tune of 30-45 minutes out of the 60 for the session. All that should have done with "mutual screening."

Let's be frank .. 1st meetings, like first dates, are often awkward ... but like Spice said ..

"put on your big boy/girl pants" .... or even better, your "adult pants."

Idea: You want to get acquainted and have him cleaned up. Take a shower together. Originally Posted by LexusLover

+ 1

This threAD reinforces my preference to chose whores that don't speak English.

Yep, it's an unfortunate reality of the world that in social situations -and this is a form of social interaction- those who are most vocal and pushy tend to dominate the space. I still disagree with you that they are in any way a majority of posters on this board, it only appears that way because of the frequency and volume of the minority's activity.

The funny thing is that the people I have in mind when talking about them are likely different than those you have in mind. It's all subjective.

I have been speaking here not as a moderator but as a member. No red italics=just me talking as any other member. If you'd like to have a discussion about gray area guideline violations, what constitutes them, and the difficulties of applying them fairly and consistently we can do that as well. I felt that was beyond the scope here but I can see the overlap as now you are seemingly getting into some of the gray area rules that are subject to interpretation.

Let's do it in another thread though I think we've hijacked this one quite enough past the original topic lol.

My feeling about the OP is that he's entitled not to share her name obviously. I just think he's doing a disservice to the rest of us. I said before and I'll say again, there are ways to say anything you want that will either not provoke a negative response or will make obvious any agenda-driven opposition that arises. I honestly believe that and we've seen it many times before. Either way, it's his choice to make and he's made it... Originally Posted by SpiceItUp

Spice, I have published my experience because I have noticed an increase in such "delaying behavior or tactics" in the hobby. I have spoken to Providers before and I didn't mind a little chat, I've chatted 15-30 minutes, before any action took place. This is why I have been hobbying less and less and less than I used to in the past, because I'm seeing this trend becoming more and more common among the new generation of Providers, the delay tactic that Mr. Zanzibar talks about aka the "talk to me baby scam".

The 45 minute delay is the worst I've seen and I felt the urge to speak about it. I know you have been through a similar experience and I understand the disappointment you felt, it was an outrage and you were justified in speaking against it. I have heard most of the good and hardworking Providers complaining that hobbyists are asking for shorter sessions, from 1 hour sessions that were once common ... down to 30 minutes, because of the bad Providers that scam hobbyists from their time.

When I see my stripper SB. We greet at the door and we kiss. She brings me a water bottle or a glass of wine and I follow her into her room. We undress as we talk, we then shower together and we talk, we dry ourselves talking and return to the bedroom. The action begins and we talk, while we do our thing, we talk and say nice things to each other. After round 1, we take turns massaging each other's bodies and we talk as we cuddle together recover, then clean up. The same with round 2. We have a good time, it is mutual and reciprocal, I give and she gives back, it works out fine. As a result, I enjoy taking her out shopping, dining, to sports events, and doing other cool activities. She appreciates and values my time and I appreciate her and I take care of her needs just as good as she takes good care of mines.

In contrast to the situation, where I'm laying there for 45 minutes and no action, she didn't kiss me at the door at all, no water bottle was even offered ... and when action finally did take place, I was rushed, shouted at, and I did not enjoy my experience at all.

I disagree about the percentages but in principle I agree with you guys and wasn't referring to you specifically.

But, nothing is catered to or nurtured. I just don't feel like it's anyone's right to dictate what other adults can and can't talk about unless it is expressly forbidden in the guidelines. The site owners feel the same way apparently.

Some people take offense at some things that others find hilarious. Others think no one should ever be allowed to be offended and draconian censorship measures should be enacted to avoid such a thing. When you ask 100 people though who should decide what is considered offensive and according to what criteria, you get 100 different responses. And therein lies the problem.

Like every message board on the internet this is, to some extent, a microcosm of the real world. Idiots and assholes abound. If you can't learn to spot them and navigate around them then you're going to have a tough time of it.

Trying to forcibly create some "Kinder and Gentler Eccie" is a farce. All that is needed to change the culture is more people of like mind not engaging in the behavior they find unacceptable and elevating the conversations above the lowest common denominator. If those same people simultaneously ignore, marginalize, or publicly call out/shame the ones whose behavior they dislike then eventually a shift will take place as more and more people join their ranks.

It has to happen organically though and be rooted in and driven by the membership. Have a problem with a misogynist asshole being a misogynist asshole? Say something about it. Don't want to get involved? Ok fine. Either way the freedom is yours, and the guy/girl you disagree with has just as much right to their opinions as you do yours.

Nothing is catered to or nurtured that the members themselves do not allow to continue. Originally Posted by SpiceItUp

Spice, I highly respect your opinion and I believe that you have proven your point. I always enjoy speaking with intelligent, civilized, and well educated people who can prove their points through speech, oratory, the sharing of ideas, and the written word ... instead of resorting to primitive childlike behavior, insults, trolling, or to threats, and acts of violence.
I take off my hat in respect and I would also like to salute everyone who has spoken in a civil manner, btw I wouldn't mind buying and sharing a beer with you all = )

"The ultimate measure of man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy" a quote from Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr.

Paying for pussy shouldn't be so difficult. Originally Posted by GlobeSpotter

+1

Neither should giving it up for pay either. Originally Posted by LexusLover

+1

Well said. ^^^^^^

Getting fucked should be a lot easier than doing the fucking .... and paying. Originally Posted by GlobeSpotter

+ 1 ... Lol = )