Sugar daddies?

I do see your POV, Nina. *I do.* But there are guys who stay in a loveless/sexless marriage for many reasons besides being "childish and immature." For example:

1) They may have residual (and substantial) feelings for their wives, some of whom may not be total bitches but suffering from a medical condition. I think if there were a med that effectively treated low libido in women that it would really reduce divorce.
2) They may see that divorce will leave them impoverished and then unable even to hire an escort.
3) They may see that their relationship with and even the well-being of their kids will suffer - divorce does this all the time.

Again, I think culture is to blame to a large degree also. It's really not reasonable to expect people to "live in the truth" when the costs inposed by society for doing so are so very great. I mean, yes, I admire people like the late Solzhenitsyn who endured terrible conditions in the old Soviet gulags and (unaccountably) lived to write that "one word of truth outweighs the whole world." But few of us are Solzhenitsyn.

Maybe if there were no escorts then more guys would "man up" and get out of a loveless/sexless marriage. Originally Posted by jceeman

ok point 1 is the only valid non-selfish reason. And i have clients like that. I even had a young 20 something as a client who i agreed to do for free since he had a severe medical condition (kidney transplant failing) that simply did not enable him to have a girlfriend.What person would I be to charge him? But reason
2) money
reason 3) codependency presented as care for kids (haha- there are plenty of non working marriages who have no kids)
do not count.
So i charge. Plenty. Selfishness needs to get charged. Mine does too. Because in marriage you make a vow that is called "For better or worse" and if you want to get out of the " for worse" part with lousy excuses
then you might go for the less expensive whore as well, that is true.
Which comes back to the fact that wives are the most expensive escorts. Boy...i think i should get married... anyone?? I also want to have a relationship where i do not have to do anyone anymore and still get paid plenty :-)) and then pucker it up to a medical condition.... how convenient.... its not a coincidence though that all wives suffer from it?? Hello??
as to feelings. well i have feelings too. for many people. But i do not stay in relationships that i can`t be honest in. Period. But - i am poly.
And i think without escorts there would not be so many sucessful marriages. Since marriages exist (monogamous ones so to speak) escorting is there to protect the marriage.

as to costs for being honest: the costs are what people like YOU make them out to be. BEcause you support heteronormativity with your lies. That is why. If people were more honest there would be no costs. So this is the lousiest excuse of all of them.

As to kids. I am psychologist and i guarantee you that kids suffer also when they are in a loveless marriage. and see examples of parents without backbone or using them as excuse. I am a child of divorced parents and let me tell you the divorce was the best thing ever happening in this marriage.

I think the whole "wife won't have sex with me" is the main reason and for some just a bs excuse to cheat. There cannot be THAT MANY women out there who refuse to have sex...gimme a break! Most escorts have been married and some still are....how can it be that only sex workers have sex within their marriages? You don't have to be a sex worker to have the mind set and desires of one.

Most guys I know have in fact manned up and admitted they still have sex with their wives but crave something new, and that's why they see escorts. Many have also said their wives could be supermodels and porn stars and they would still cheat...I am inclined to believe this. I was not an escort since birth lol, and I was married....my man was fully satisfied up until the day we signed the divorce papers and I blew him in the parking lot lmao! So I don't buy into the whole escorts vs. wives sexual theory.

For some guys this is the reason, but for most it's just plain selfishness.

Good advice. But I do notice that when something in the alerts section points to some news story about cops "cracking down" and so on that, when comments are present, there are almost always comments saying that the laws against prostitution should be abolished.

Who *are* the people who want so badly to stop prostitution anyway? (I guess I will start another thread on that subject!) Originally Posted by jceeman

you are funny. I mean seriously. Writing comments in an forum under fake stagenames does not qualify as political work and agendas. I assume those people who write that - secretly under fake names - would never ever say those things officially in public or at home. EVER.

I believe that individuals are individuals. No matter what evidence you have to support your generalizations, they will still be generalizations. Originally Posted by China Doll

Individuality is overrated. There are only so many social constructs a person can fall into. As sociologists found out. SO behaviour of individuals is largely influenced and appointed to a social group they belong too. because if that was not the case you would not be an escort. and benefit from certain social circumstances. Or people would not lie. So there are only SO many outcomes of individiuality. Most of them are predictable. With generalizations. Who might fit not 100% but mostly. Its almost predictable what will happen when a married man tells the wife he has a lover. Its predictable what will happen if a cheater cheated once. Its very much socially conditioned. Its predictably how you react, when someone cheats on you (except you are poly) . Its predictable how you define your escort being within the "regular" world.
There are not so many individuals out there who are really "Individual". However , mayn claim to be special though. But most of us are just ordinary. :-) Sad but true. We are not Mahatma Gandhis, or Nobel prize winners.

I believe in generalizations to a degree, but I find it more tactful not to go around telling other people who and what they are when I haven't walked in their shoes. It's very easy to sit on the soap box AFTER you have experienced something, rather than before you even got there. Many people today are too educated to do them any practical good. Without wisdom to go along with those letters, you are still living in ignorance.

I have almost 8 years of school under my belt and I am not even 30, but I only know a lot about a few things...not about everything. I have learned far more from the people that were placed in my life, than I did from any Ivy League institution...that's just for bragging rights as far as I am concerned. Some of the most intelligent people I know, are the very ones who can't even spell the most common words.

On the flip side I know scholars who are as blind and dumb as a rock, because of too much book work and not enough pratical knowledge.

I believe in generalizations to a degree, but I find it more tactful not to go around telling other people who and what they are when I haven't walked in their shoes. It's very easy to sit on the soap box AFTER you have experienced something, rather than before you even got there. Many people today are too educated to do them any practical good. Without wisdom to go along with those letters, you are still living in ignorance.

On the flip side I know scholars who are as blind and dumb as a rock, because of too much book work and not enough pratical knowledge. Originally Posted by London Rayne

+1

....my man was fully satisfied up until the day we signed the divorce papers and I blew him in the parking lot lmao! Originally Posted by London Rayne

Not to go off-topic, but that has to be the ONLY marriage that's ever ended on such a happy note! *L*

I did it with the second husband as well lmao. These are men I still see and have drinks with, but know we are not able to live together. Sex was the LAST thing that ever disappeared from any of my relationships, so it just goes to show that is NOT the one thing that holds a marriage together. Living with someone who is not bat s3it crazy would be number one lol. I don't care how good the sex is, if you can't talk and co-exist with another person, it's not going to save your relationship. You will still go out looking for someone else and though sex may be a part of it, that's not really why you are there.

I am really tired of people trying to suggest that. Is is important? You betcha, but I can think of many other things that rank higher on the grand scale where true love is present. So many people use sex as an excuse when in reality the problems are far deeper than a physical level. Sex is used as a drug sometimes to minimize the emotions that are lacking elsewhere.

I believe in generalizations to a degree, but I find it more tactful not to go around telling other people who and what they are when I haven't walked in their shoes. It's very easy to sit on the soap box AFTER you have experienced something, rather than before you even got there. Many people today are too educated to do them any practical good. Without wisdom to go along with those letters, you are still living in ignorance.

I have almost 8 years of school under my belt and I am not even 30, but I only know a lot about a few things...not about everything. I have learned far more from the people that were placed in my life, than I did from any Ivy League institution...that's just for bragging rights as far as I am concerned. Some of the most intelligent people I know, are the very ones who can't even spell the most common words.

On the flip side I know scholars who are as blind and dumb as a rock, because of too much book work and not enough pratical knowledge. Originally Posted by London Rayne

I agree completely. As i said i have met taxi drivers who are more educated and skilled than some so called ivy league people. And as for the wisdom you stated, that is exactly the experience a young person lacks as opposed to an old one. So i disagree that there are people out there who are young but oh so more mature than - hm....Its a comparison that judges and does not do anyone a favour. We are all made of stars and no one is better or worse. What i like most is honesty towards yourself though. And critizicing yourself brings you much further than pretending to be the most intelligent and most beautiful person on this planet, because it will not cater to your personal development in any way. Therefor critical people are my best friends. Because i am eager to learn. And reflect. As opposed to numb myself.

Granted, but a younger person can still in fact have more wisdom than an older one if you look at how each individual was brought up and what they were exposed to. If a 60 year old woman lived in a cave all of her life with no outside influences, she is not going to be as mature as a 25 year old who has traveled the world, went to school, and interacted with other people to gain that wisdom. See...there are other ways to look at your generalizations. You are eliminating upbringing and experience from your theory, so it's baseless.

A person who has been raped is much more able to understand and counsel than one who has never been through such an ordeal....at any age. Age does not equal maturity...wisdom does, and there is no limit to the amount of knowledge one can attain. I can tell you flat out that I have more wisdom than my parents concerning a variety of things they consider taboo or insignificant. OTOH, they have wisdom of things that I have yet to experience...like a marriage that lasted over 40 years.

Granted, but a younger person can still in fact have more wisdom than an older one if you look at how each individual was brought up and what they had to go through. If a 60 year old woman lived in a cave all of her life with no outside influences, she is not going to be as mature as a 25 year old who has traveled the world, went to school, and interacted with other people to gain that wisdom. See...there are other ways to look at your generalizations.

A person who has been raped is much more able to deal with and counsel someone who has never been through such an ordeal....at any age. Age does not equal maturity...wisdom does, and there is no limit to the amount of knowledge one can attain. Originally Posted by London Rayne

I
I am really tired of people trying to suggest that. Is is important? You betcha, but I can think of many other things that rank higher on the grand scale where true love is present. So many people use sex as an excuse when in reality the problems are far deeper than a physical level. Sex is used as a drug sometimes to minimize the emotions that are lacking elsewhere. Originally Posted by London Rayne

True, so true. and if a person aka wife does not want to have sex anymore i do not consider it a physical problem. Its psychological too. Or most likely and foremost it is psychological. But i disagree that sex should be overrated too. Just because sex is not present in that degree anymore a marriage is not bad. But then lets at least be realistic and honest about that. I just am tired of people telling me their wives have medical conditions and whatnot, when the reality is that people are just tired sexually of each other because if you live together for 20 to 30 years its just like that. Also people believing just because they cater to sexual needs that they might be the perfect match is also unrealistic.
I personally prefer a sexless good working marriage as opposed to a fulfilling sexlife with a person that does not suit me at all.
But then - sex you can get anywhere. And i am in open relationships. I do respect marriages. But i have a problem with people trying to sell me an x for a y. And many married people are a bit delusional. Sorry to say. I mean pretending to see escorts because its hurtful for a wife to know the truth?? Sorry, if it is so hurtful then why see escorts in the first place? Because people are selfishly motivated. That is the reason. We want to do stuff and not be taken responsible for it. And probably it would be mor ehurtful if the wife left? Or for the purse? But nevertheless. Its just these "selfless" pretenses that are more shokcing to me than if someone says: "Ok i am a hypocrite, and i do stuff secretely because i am selfish. And that is my right because i PAY for." But i am tired of people without backbone presenting themselves as martyrs to me and as selfless peoople who don^t want to hurt anyone. Hahaha.

That I can agree with 100 percent. I am all for people who keep it REAL about why they do things lol. Dang we took this thread over lol.

Granted, but a younger person can still in fact have more wisdom than an older one if you look at how each individual was brought up and what they were exposed to. If a 60 year old woman lived in a cave all of her life with no outside influences, she is not going to be as mature as a 25 year old who has traveled the world, went to school, and interacted with other people to gain that wisdom. See...there are other ways to look at your generalizations. You are eliminating upbringing and experience from your theory, so it's baseless.

A person who has been raped is much more able to understand and counsel than one who has never been through such an ordeal....at any age. Age does not equal maturity...wisdom does, and there is no limit to the amount of knowledge one can attain. I can tell you flat out that I have more wisdom than my parents concerning a variety of things they consider taboo or insignificant. OTOH, they have wisdom of things that I have yet to experience...like a marriage that lasted over 40 years. Originally Posted by London Rayne

You are right again, which brings the concept of maturity yet again in question because some might wonder who the so called "mature 21 " year old compare themselves too. To label anything as anyhow is not qualified a good idea without presenting reference frames for doing so. You use that within science as well, Any scientific model is just as good as the references she is backed up upon. And any model has only a limited frame of explanation. So my question was if "mature 21 year old (who don`t need botox :-))..." are per se immature :-) by doing so.

I have met people who are older than my self and i consider to be less mature. But then again that is in references that they were lacking my skills. In references other than that judgmenent might be diffferent.

ladies; thank you this has been an enlightening thread