Rand Corporation Report Says the Iraq War Was Shrubbie's Biggest Blunder

I B Hankering's Avatar
LMAO you are the first runner up should have been a run off, but your reach around buddy dull knife saved your ass. I see you are enthralled with the handle chicken dick it fits you and your second class plucking ways. Originally Posted by i'va biggen
Being the peerless plucking chicken dick plucker you are, Eatkum the Inbred Chimp, you're really, really too stupid to realize the Hitler worshiping, lying, hypocritical, racist, cum-gobbling golem fucktard, HDDB, DEM saved you from being #1.



Actually, your fellow styrofoam packing peanuts in the Idiot Klan, err, Clan, saved you from sweeping to yet another victory as DOTY.

I know it's algebra, which is the work of the devil to you anti-education Neanderthals, but take away the automatic "me" votes by your cell mates and you win it GOING AWAY.

So for a change, IBIDiot, you're LYING!


Originally Posted by Yssup Rider
You're the mental midget that states a plausible scenario, except you and you alone drew the voters' ire, and then draws an ignorant conclusion that's 180 degrees out of whack with your thesis, you Hitler worshiping, lying, hypocritical, racist, cum-gobbling golem fucktard, HDDB, DEM.
LexusLover's Avatar
There may be an intelligent case to be made against the Iraq war, but you are obviously too stupid to make it. Originally Posted by lustylad
Lad, one FACT you should know, perhaps several, about BigTits is that he was not "opposed" to the invasion then, and so expressed emphatically later, but he was wanting "more inspections" by the U.N. "weapons inspectors" .... he never really gave a definitive answer on "how much longer" to conduct inspections OR HOW THEY WERE GOING TO BE CONDUCTED WITHOUT IRAQI COOPERATION, but like the knucklehead we have currently in the White House (who BigTits voted for 2x's .... and Clinton for whom he also voted 2x's (and passed out literature for him).... threatening Saddam (or anyone) didn't work and all the U.N. resolutions in the world did NOTHING to allow full and complete compliance with the U.N. mandates ....

The other FACT is ... that BigTits has a burr up his ass for Bush because, according to BigTits, Bush's campaign pulled some "dirty tricks" on McCain in the run up to the 2000 elections ... and BigTits has never forgiven him for that ... which really doesn't explain why BigTits voted for Obaminable instead of McCain, unless he prefers to look at Biden rather than some hot babe from Alaska. To each his or her own.

Beyond that when BigTits quit cutting and pasting off the Op-Ed pages he doesn't make a lot of sense, other than sounding like a broken record with the same ole shit, spiced up with some cutesy name calling. (He thinks if he keeps calling people idiots they will begin to believe they are and quit posting! Like his shadow said ... I'm still here, until the Mods excuse me!)

Since BigTits voted a straight Dem ticket, guess who else he supported:



.. looking for the flag planted by U.S. astronauts on MARS no doubt!!!!
LexusLover's Avatar
2) Why? Because Iraq was not a threat to our national security.

Idiot! Originally Posted by bigtex
I have good company, ... ACCORDING TO YOU!!!

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/.../clinton.iraq/

"And I want them to understand what we must do to protect the national interest, and indeed the interest of all freedom-loving people in the world.

Remember, as a condition of the cease-fire after the Gulf War, the United Nations demanded not the United States the United Nations demanded, and Saddam Hussein agreed to declare within 15 days this is way back in 1991 within 15 days his nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them, to make a total declaration. That's what he promised to do.

The United Nations set up a special commission of highly trained international experts called UNSCOM, to make sure that Iraq made good on that commitment. We had every good reason to insist that Iraq disarm. Saddam had built up a terrible arsenal, and he had used it not once, but many times, in a decade-long war with Iran, he used chemical weapons, against combatants, against civilians, against a foreign adversary, and even against his own people.

And during the Gulf War, Saddam launched Scuds against Saudi Arabia, Israel and Bahrain.

Now, instead of playing by the very rules he agreed to at the end of the Gulf War, Saddam has spent the better part of the past decade trying to cheat on this solemn commitment. Consider just some of the facts:

Iraq repeatedly made false declarations about the weapons that it had left in its possession after the Gulf War. When UNSCOM would then uncover evidence that gave lie to those declarations, Iraq would simply amend the reports.

For example, Iraq revised its nuclear declarations four times within just 14 months and it has submitted six different biological warfare declarations, each of which has been rejected by UNSCOM.

In 1995, Hussein Kamal, Saddam's son-in-law, and the chief organizer of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program, defected to Jordan. He revealed that Iraq was continuing to conceal weapons and missiles and the capacity to build many more.

Then and only then did Iraq admit to developing numbers of weapons in significant quantities and weapon stocks. Previously, it had vehemently denied the very thing it just simply admitted once Saddam Hussein's son-in-law defected to Jordan and told the truth. Now listen to this, what did it admit?

It admitted, among other things, an offensive biological warfare capability notably 5,000 gallons of botulinum, which causes botulism; 2,000 gallons of anthrax; 25 biological-filled Scud warheads; and 157 aerial bombs.

And I might say UNSCOM inspectors believe that Iraq has actually greatly understated its production.

As if we needed further confirmation, you all know what happened to his son-in-law when he made the untimely decision to go back to Iraq.

Next, throughout this entire process, Iraqi agents have undermined and undercut UNSCOM. They've harassed the inspectors, lied to them, disabled monitoring cameras, literally spirited evidence out of the back doors of suspect facilities as inspectors walked through the front door. And our people were there observing it and had the pictures to prove it.

Despite Iraq's deceptions, UNSCOM has nevertheless done a remarkable job. Its inspectors the eyes and ears of the civilized world have uncovered and destroyed more weapons of mass destruction capacity than was destroyed during the Gulf War.

This includes nearly 40,000 chemical weapons, more than 100,000 gallons of chemical weapons agents, 48 operational missiles, 30 warheads specifically fitted for chemical and biological weapons, and a massive biological weapons facility at Al Hakam equipped to produce anthrax and other deadly agents.

Over the past few months, as they have come closer and closer to rooting out Iraq's remaining nuclear capacity, Saddam has undertaken yet another gambit to thwart their ambitions.

By imposing debilitating conditions on the inspectors and declaring key sites which have still not been inspected off limits, including, I might add, one palace in Baghdad more than 2,600 acres large by comparison, when you hear all this business about presidential sites reflect our sovereignty, why do you want to come into a residence, the White House complex is 18 acres. So you'll have some feel for this.

One of these presidential sites is about the size of Washington, D.C. That's about how many acres did you tell me it was? 40,000 acres. We're not talking about a few rooms here with delicate personal matters involved.

It is obvious that there is an attempt here, based on the whole history of this operation since 1991, to protect whatever remains of his capacity to produce weapons of mass destruction, the missiles to deliver them, and the feed stocks necessary to produce them.

The UNSCOM inspectors believe that Iraq still has stockpiles of chemical and biological munitions, a small force of Scud-type missiles, and the capacity to restart quickly its production program and build many, many more weapons.

Now, against that background, let us remember the past here. It is against that background that we have repeatedly and unambiguously made clear our preference for a diplomatic solution.

The inspection system works. The inspection system has worked in the face of lies, stonewalling, obstacle after obstacle after obstacle. The people who have done that work deserve the thanks of civilized people throughout the world.

It has worked. That is all we want. And if we can find a diplomatic way to do what has to be done, to do what he promised to do at the end of the Gulf War, to do what should have been done within 15 days within 15 days of the agreement at the end of the Gulf War, if we can find a diplomatic way to do that, that is by far our preference.

But to be a genuine solution, and not simply one that glosses over the remaining problem, a diplomatic solution must include or meet a clear, immutable, reasonable, simple standard.

Iraq must agree and soon, to free, full, unfettered access to these sites anywhere in the country. There can be no dilution or diminishment of the integrity of the inspection system that UNSCOM has put in place.

Now those terms are nothing more or less than the essence of what he agreed to at the end of the Gulf War. The Security Council, many times since, has reiterated this standard. If he accepts them, force will not be necessary. If he refuses or continues to evade his obligations through more tactics of delay and deception, he and he alone will be to blame for the consequences.

I ask all of you to remember the record here what he promised to do within 15 days of the end of the Gulf War, what he repeatedly refused to do, what we found out in 1995, what the inspectors have done against all odds. We have no business agreeing to any resolution of this that does not include free, unfettered access to the remaining sites by people who have integrity and proven confidence in the inspection business. That should be our standard. That's what UNSCOM has done, and that's why I have been fighting for it so hard. And that's why the United States should insist upon it.

Now, let's imagine the future. What if he fails to comply, and we fail to act, or we take some ambiguous third route which gives him yet more opportunities to develop this program of weapons of mass destruction and continue to press for the release of the sanctions and continue to ignore the solemn commitments that he made?

Well, he will conclude that the international community has lost its will. He will then conclude that he can go right on and do more to rebuild an arsenal of devastating destruction.

And some day, some way, I guarantee you, he'll use the arsenal. And I think every one of you who's really worked on this for any length of time believes that, too.

Now we have spent several weeks building up our forces in the Gulf, and building a coalition of like-minded nations. Our force posture would not be possible without the support of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, the GCC states and Turkey. Other friends and allies have agreed to provide forces, bases or logistical support, including the United Kingdom, Germany, Spain and Portugal, Denmark and the Netherlands, Hungary and Poland and the Czech Republic, Argentina, Iceland, Australia and New Zealand and our friends and neighbors in Canada.

That list is growing, not because anyone wants military action, but because there are people in this world who believe the United Nations resolutions should mean something, because they understand what UNSCOM has achieved, because they remember the past, and because they can imagine what the future will be depending on what we do now.

If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program. We want to seriously reduce his capacity to threaten his neighbors.

I am quite confident, from the briefing I have just received from our military leaders, that we can achieve the objective and secure our vital strategic interests.

Let me be clear: A military operation cannot destroy all the weapons of mass destruction capacity. But it can and will leave him significantly worse off than he is now in terms of the ability to threaten the world with these weapons or to attack his neighbors.

And he will know that the international community continues to have a will to act if and when he threatens again. Following any strike, we will carefully monitor Iraq's activities with all the means at our disposal. If he seeks to rebuild his weapons of mass destruction, we will be prepared to strike him again.

The economic sanctions will remain in place until Saddam complies fully with all U.N. resolutions.

Consider this already these sanctions have denied him $110 billion. Imagine how much stronger his armed forces would be today, how many more weapons of mass destruction operations he would have hidden around the country if he had been able to spend even a small fraction of that amount for a military rebuilding.

We will continue to enforce a no-fly zone from the southern suburbs of Baghdad to the Kuwait border and in northern Iraq, making it more difficult for Iraq to walk over Kuwait again or threaten the Kurds in the north.

Now, let me say to all of you here as all of you know the weightiest decision any president ever has to make is to send our troops into harm's way. And force can never be the first answer. But sometimes, it's the only answer.

You are the best prepared, best equipped, best trained fighting force in the world. And should it prove necessary for me to exercise the option of force, your commanders will do everything they can to protect the safety of all the men and women under their command.

No military action, however, is risk-free. I know that the people we may call upon in uniform are ready. The American people have to be ready as well.

Dealing with Saddam Hussein requires constant vigilance. We have seen that constant vigilance pays off. But it requires constant vigilance. Since the Gulf War, we have pushed back every time Saddam has posed a threat.

When Baghdad plotted to assassinate former President Bush, we struck hard at Iraq's intelligence headquarters.

When Saddam threatened another invasion by amassing his troops in Kuwait along the Kuwaiti border in 1994, we immediately deployed our troops, our ships, our planes, and Saddam backed down.

When Saddam forcefully occupied Irbil in northern Iraq, we broadened our control over Iraq's skies by extending the no-fly zone.

But there is no better example, again I say, than the U.N. weapons inspection system itself. Yes, he has tried to thwart it in every conceivable way, but the discipline, determination, year-in-year-out effort of these weapons inspectors is doing the job. And we seek to finish the job. Let there be no doubt, we are prepared to act.

But Saddam Hussein could end this crisis tomorrow simply by letting the weapons inspectors complete their mission. He made a solemn commitment to the international community to do that and to give up his weapons of mass destruction a long time ago now. One way or the other, we are determined to see that he makes good on his own promise.

Saddam Hussein's Iraq reminds us of what we learned in the 20th century and warns us of what we must know about the 21st. In this century, we learned through harsh experience that the only answer to aggression and illegal behavior is firmness, determination, and when necessary action.

In the next century, the community of nations may see more and more the very kind of threat Iraq poses now a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction ready to use them or provide them to terrorists, drug traffickers or organized criminals who travel the world among us unnoticed.

If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow by the knowledge that they can act with impunity, even in the face of a clear message from the United Nations Security Council and clear evidence of a weapons of mass destruction program.


But if we act as one, we can safeguard our interests and send a clear message to every would-be tyrant and terrorist that the international community does have the wisdom and the will and the way to protect peace and security in a new era. That is the future I ask you all to imagine. That is the future I ask our allies to imagine.

If we look at the past and imagine that future, we will act as one together. And we still have, God willing, a chance to find a diplomatic resolution to this, and if not, God willing, the chance to do the right thing for our children and grandchildren.

Thank you very much."

Hey BigTits .... Go fuck yourself, but have a Happy New Year in the process.
cptjohnstone's Avatar
Naw I was banging your mother in your basement no stones while you were playing with your marbles. Originally Posted by i'va biggen
my mother is dead

I have heard certain people are into that
LexusLover's Avatar
my mother is dead

I have heard certain people are into that Originally Posted by cptjohnstone
Do you even have a "basement"?

He reminds me of one of those annoying chihuahuas barking and snapping at anything that moves (or appears to move even). Just doesn't shut up.
cptjohnstone's Avatar
Do you even have a "basement"?

He reminds me of one of those annoying chihuahuas barking and snapping at anything that moves (or appears to move even). Just doesn't shut up. Originally Posted by LexusLover

+1
my mother is dead
She said she was, how should I know you were into old ladies?
I have heard certain people are into that Originally Posted by cptjohnstone
Do you even have a "basement"?
It is a deluxe mobile home.

He reminds me of one of those annoying chihuahuas barking and snapping at anything that moves (or appears to move even). Just doesn't shut up. Originally Posted by LexusLover
You remind me of a chigger just a irritation.

[QUOTE=cptjohnstone;1056188083]+1
[/QUOTE
LMAO
There may be an intelligent case to be made against the Iraq war Originally Posted by lustylad

I have good company Originally Posted by LexusLover
Frick Idiot, meet Frack Idiot.

Feel free to enjoy each other's "good company."

Idiot's!
lustylad's Avatar
1) There was no reason for us to invade Iraq during the spring of 2003.

Ok, I guess you mean we should have invaded Iraq back in 1998 when the Iraq Liberation Act was passed by a vote of 360-38 in the US House of Representatives and unanimously in the US Senate. That Act declared "it should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq". Timing is everything, right littledix? Were you screaming at Clinton to hurry up and get the job done back in 1998?

2) Why? Because Iraq was not a threat to our national security.

Was Iraq a threat back in 1998 when Congress passed the Iraq Liberation Act? What changed between 1998 and 2003? Oh wait, the White House changed hands, didn't it? Ergo, your perception of what constitutes a threat to our national security changed as well, right littledix?

3) Shrubby did a piss poor job of (decimating, if not decapitating) al Qaeda in the days, weeks and months, before and after the Iraq invasion.

Piss poor job, huh? Is that why the CIA told us back in 2004 that two-thirds of al queda's (original 9/11) leadership had been killed or captured? Where does "piss poor" turn into "pretty good", littledix? At 75% killed/captured? 90%? Or do you insist on perfection (100%) before you will grudgingly give Bush any credit?

Idiot!

You're the fucking idiot, littledix. Aren't you the little dipshit who said to FDR after Pearl Harbor - don't declare war on Nazi Germany! It will cause us to lose our focus on the war against Japan! Lol. Just because you don't know how to walk and chew gum at the same time doesn't mean the rest of us are as clumsy and inept as you are. Originally Posted by bigtex

.
JD Barleycorn's Avatar
Absolutely, and you're still whining about Clinton, aren't you?

As for your favorite Shrubbie, there is one hell of a lot to whine about! Considering the 2 unfounded wars, the ill conceived and ill advised spring of 2003 invasion of Iraq and the worst econonomic conditions since The Great Depression. And all of the other dismal conditions that "The Most Unpopular (and Incompetent) President in modern American history" left in his wake.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...odern-history/

And LLIdiot voted for his favorite Shrub four times! Originally Posted by bigtex
You need to read your own posting TAMPON. This article points out (unlike you) that the invasion of Iraq worked out pretty well (ill concieved???) and those economic conditions have nothing to do with your OP. As for most unpopular and incompetent....I thought you were talking about Bush and not Obama. You can't even stay on your own OP without being distracted by your own hatred.

lustylad's Avatar
Do you think removing a major counterbalance to Iran in the region was intelligent? Originally Posted by WTF
Now that's a question worthy of discussion and analysis... the problem is littledix is too stupid to make this kind of case. All he knows how to do is argue the costs were too high. As I've already pointed out, this implies the invasion was a good idea but for the high cost.

If you want to have an intelligent discussion on whether the strategic rationale behind invading Iraq and ousting Saddam was sound or flawed, go at it. Just make sure littledix stays out of it. He's far too stupid and biased to understand - let alone talk about - foreign policy impartially or on the merits.
lustylad's Avatar
Lad, one FACT you should know, perhaps several, about BigTits is....

Since BigTits voted a straight Dem ticket, guess who else he supported:

Originally Posted by LexusLover

Yeah, I've been picking up on where BigTits/littledix is coming from. He's one of those idiots who thinks hating Bush gives you an automatic pass on having to be logical or consistent.... sorta like his mentor Shameless Lee....

.
cptjohnstone's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by cptjohnstone
my mother is dead
She said she was, how should I know you were into old ladies?
I have heard certain people are into that


Just a repeat of what I just said, as I said a couple of weeks ago, you are the star in the remake of "Dumb and Dumber"

Quote:
Originally Posted by LexusLover
Do you even have a "basement"?
It is a deluxe mobile home.


I do know anything about mobile homes but it seems you do


He reminds me of one of those annoying chihuahuas barking and snapping at anything that moves (or appears to move even). Just doesn't shut up.


You remind me of a chigger just a irritation

did you flunk 8th grade English?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cptjohnstone
my mother is dead
She said she was, how should I know you were into old ladies?
I have heard certain people are into that


Just a repeat of what I just said, as I said a couple of weeks ago, you are the star in the remake of "Dumb and Dumber"
You could play both parts yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LexusLover
Do you even have a "basement"?
It is a deluxe mobile home.


I do know anything about mobile homes but it seems you do
Is that Okie speak?

He reminds me of one of those annoying chihuahuas barking and snapping at anything that moves (or appears to move even). Just doesn't shut up.


You remind me of a chigger just a irritation

did you flunk 8th grade English? Originally Posted by cptjohnstone
Apparently you did.
WTF's Avatar
  • WTF
  • 12-28-2014, 06:50 PM
. All he knows how to do is argue the costs were too high. As I've already pointed out, this implies the invasion was a good idea but for the high cost.

. Originally Posted by lustylad
If you could fuck the prom Queen and have her like it then fucking her might be a good idea but if she screams you raped her, gets knocked up and you have to take care of some bastard child for eternity then maybe not. So yes one has to do a cost analysis before taking on such an endeavor. If you wind up wrong then you have to endure the criticism from those one third of Americans who said things might not be so easy.

I believe that Bush thought Iraq would go much like say Bosnia or the Falklands War. Had it, we would not be having this discussion. You and others would have been correct and myself and the other one third of the country would have been wrong.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/russ-b..._b_819426.html

"He was thinking about invading Iraq in 1999," Herskowitz told me in our 2004 interview, leaning in a little to make sure I could hear him properly. "It was on his mind. He said to me: 'One of the keys to being seen as a great leader is to be seen as a commander in chief.' And he said, 'My father had all this political capital built up when he drove the Iraqis out of Kuwait, and he wasted it.' He said, 'If I have a chance to invade . . . if I had that much capital, I'm not going to waste it. I'm going to get everything passed that I want to get passed, and I'm going to have a successful presidency.' "...


...Bush's circle of preelection advisers had a fixation on the political capital that British prime minister Margaret Thatcher had amassed from the Falklands War with Argentina. Said Herskowitz: "They were just absolutely blown away, just enthralled by the scenes of the troops coming back, of the boats, people throwing flowers at [Thatcher] and her getting these standing ovations in Parliament and making these magnificent speeches." It was a masterpiece of "perception management"--a lesson in how to maneuver the media and public into supporting a war, irrespective of the actual merits.