Is the local hobby scene as bad as this board makes it seem?

For centuries, black folks were the victims of systematic racism that at first enslaved them and then segregated them. Despite isolated success stories, this prevented the vast majority of black folks from bettering their station in life and accumulating wealth and influence that could have been passed on to the next generation. In essence, each generation of black folks had to start from zero. The impact still echoes today.

I have no doubt that racism is still a factor as to why black economic, health, and educational outcomes lag. However, I do not believe systematic racism is the primary driver of these lagging outcomes TODAY. The key to fixing these outcomes is to create a culture that:

-prioritizes education
-emphasizes the importance of stable family life

Asian-american culture prioritizes to the point of fetishizing these 2 things... and they are killing it in this country. If you want to say that historic systematic racism is the reason schools in black neighborhoods are failing and is the reason why most black kids are born to single mothers, I won't argue. But nobody has a time machine to fix that. Eliminating all racism wouldn't solve those culture issues even if it were possible.

Anyway, we were talking about why Pittsburgh is so racist that middle-class black folks don't have to all live in the same neighborhood... Never accept an anecdote as evidence and never ever believe anything that you read on a hooker board, but I live in possibly the most affluent suburban neighborhood in Allegheny County and, starting at the corner house, my neighbors on my side of the street are:

white couple (old money), interracial couple (new money), white couple (new money), white couple (old money), interracial couple (new money), white couple (old money), asian couple (new money), black couple (new money), white couple (new money).

My street is definitely not middle-class, but my street is typical of my particular suburb and it is a mix of old (inherited) and new (earned) money. Is that segregation? Doesn't look like it to me. Originally Posted by bkfantasy

I live in Upper St Clair. Your community seems a lot like mine. You can say the same about Fox Chapel.The Civil Rights Act was signed into law in 1964. So we are now into our third generation since then. Things have gotten much better since then. You listed two major reasons why things are tough for inner city communities. Lack of the nuclear family and bad schools. Sometimes you have to look within to improve instead of pointing fingers. Maybe Elmo should pick up a book from Thomas Sowell to get a different POV.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Sowell

But we're getting off course here. This isn't about racism. This is about how shitty people are from Pittsburgh. The other cities mentioned don't have the problem that Pittsburgh has because those cities are not filled with Yinzers.[/QUOTE]



must of been to Walmart and smelled us damn ! im done shopping there ,

I am not sure that having a singularly black middle class neighborhood would help designate you as less of a racist city. I would believe that the Designation of a black middle class neighborhood might just be racist in and of itself.

I would think the less racist you are, the more integrated you are. And with the AA population accounting for less than 20% of the gen pop, we might just be more integrated than places that have “black middle class neighborhoods” Originally Posted by Magictouch13

Exactly!

I'm not speaking for myself. I'm not a native, I came here a little bit after 9/11. Standoffish, rude, widely ignorant, churlish, racist, xenophobic and oddly geocentric. People here just don't act right. Originally Posted by Wizard2019

In relation to the hobby I can't imagine many (or any) cities creating a local hobby Ecosystem which existed with the early 2000's ASPD scene and then the Indys scene from 2005 to (say) 2010 or so.....

HH's and GTG's got up-and-running with ASPD before Indys got it's forums in spring of 2005, and the ASPD section of Pittsburgh was very active circa 2004. More active than The Big Doggie or The Erotic Review or any other site at the time. When Indys started it's forums in spring of 2005 and then started having GTG's then often Dozens of Pittsburgh hobby-people gathered Peacefully and (mostly)Lawfully, and it went on that way for YEARS. Hard to imagine a hobby "scene" like that forming in other cities....

From talking to "visiting" providers including several ATF's Pittsburgh had the reputation of being a very "established" hobby-market. Plenty of experienced hobbyists. Enough FOOLS to be noticeable but most Pittsburgh hobbyists "knew what they were doing" at least during the Indys years....

It's true that Pittsburgh often had a hobbyist rate "haggler" reputation with traveling providers. Guys refusing to pay more than $300. Weird guys going for "discount for good review" deals. Plenty of assholes in any scene. But there was a Reason so many OH providers came to PGH regularly. They made a lot of money here....

I can't imagine a local, very "established" with HH's and GTGs hobby-scene will ever exist again post-FOSTA. And that Sucks Big Time....

And there is still plenty of Choice of providers for Pittsburgh hobbyists. If anything there is more "variability" of "scenes" like SA now, and the whole local PGH hobby-scene is not as "organized" and "transparent" like it was with the old ASPD and then Indys....

Threads: 2,703,586, Posts: 13,609,012, Members: 526,226
Welcome to our newest member, Rytheman94

ECCIE has over 500,000 members. Indys never had more than 35,000. What’s your point? It also shows how fraudulent DG is. Like none of her clients heard of ECCIE. Bullshit. Indys came to be at the right time. ASPD was shutting down. Indys was always a local board. Columbus was popular for a few years then died out. Cincy and Cleveland weren’t all that big for Indys. Agencies like Ciity Girls wouldn’t accept Indys vouches. Indys was great for the local scene for 6/8 years. As I said before, after Cleveland, it was essentially dead. And Tolstoy, you’re naive, misinformed or both if you think it was one big Koombuyya at Indys. Did you forget Blue Bandits (PI) deliberate destruction of Mandy? Lots of intimidation tactics were employed on Indys. That’s just one of the more public displays of depravity. There were many more. But ECCIE is a better run site. There’s no Emperor that can delete your posts, read your PMs or ban you on a whim. That doesn’t happen here. As far as I’m concerned, it’s far better. Originally Posted by bambino

ASPD and then Eccie were/are always "national" and even "international" boards. So obviously those boards were/are going to have more members. And from 2005 to it's ending Indys was mostly a "regional" board which covered Pittsburgh and the big cities of OH. And no doubt- the "traffic" and board-use and Indys-only hobby-content DWARFED that of ASPD and then ECCIE from 2005 through most of Indys existence. ASPD Pittsburgh and ASPD OH were ghost-towns from 2006 onwards. ECCIE always existed, positively, but really most of the local PGH and OH hobby-traffic and content was being posted on Indys until it folded....

I never said Indys was a Kumbaya culture but people mostly got-along well. Sure, there were Scandals and Controversies on Indys, and some of them were Pretty Lurid. I'm surprised there were not MORE scandals and controversies because the whole hobby-scene was essentially an ILLEGAL sub-culture like the US Booze scene during 1920's prohibition. No one got KILLED during the ASPD/Indys Pittsburgh/OH hobby-scene, so that's a good thing.... Now someone here is going to post that, on the contrary, some people WERE killed during the ASPD and Indys years. Well, no scene is perfect....

I have fond memories of my time exploring the early 2000's ASPD and then 2005 through 2010 Indys hobby-scene. That includes all the Personal Feuds I was involved in and all the other varied, subterranean, nocturnal, sub-culture Weird....Shit I was involved in. "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times...." said Charles DICKens. I'm sad the scene does not exist like it did before. Still plenty of Solid Providers to mix with all the new "civilian" and FDH (Feral Defensive Hoodrats) running around. I miss the old Indys-scene. I bet you do too, Bambino....

No one got KILLED during the ASPD/Indys Pittsburgh/OH hobby-scene, so that's a good thing.... Now someone here is going to post that, on the contrary, some people WERE killed during the ASPD and Indys years. Well, no scene is perfect.... Originally Posted by tolstoy

Well, I'm certainly aware of at least one provider who was killed by a client during that period, though it wasn't someone who someone who participated in the online hobby scene other than posting ads on Backpage...

I live in Upper St Clair. Your community seems a lot like mine. You can say the same about Fox Chapel.The Civil Rights Act was signed into law in 1964. So we are now into our third generation since then. Things have gotten much better since then. You listed two major reasons why things are tough for inner city communities. Lack of the nuclear family and bad schools. Sometimes you have to look within to improve instead of pointing fingers. Maybe Elmo should pick up a book from Thomas Sowell to get a different POV.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Sowell Originally Posted by bambino

Do you guys even consider that perhaps the OP might actually not be a white guy? Elmo, I know it’s a tough crowd here but thanks for speaking your truth.

Do you guys even consider that perhaps the OP might actually not be a white guy? Elmo, I know it’s a tough crowd here but thanks for speaking your truth. Originally Posted by Dreamgurrl

Who cares what his race is? Everyone should read Thomas Sowell. He’s brilliant. And Black. I pointed out the “truth” to Elmo. Over 20 cities have claimed racism to be a public health hazard. Pittsburgh wasn’t the first. That’s the TRUTH. It only takes city council to proclaim that. But I’ve never judged people by their color, race, religion or ethnic background. I judge people by their character. I live by the “Golden Rule”. Treat others as you want them to do unto you. Look it up.

I’ll post this again:


https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/researc...counties?amp=1

People should be protesting to defund the teachers union. Charter schools and open enrollment. Let poor kids get a good education. That could be fixed tomorrow.

Do you guys even consider that perhaps the OP might actually not be a white guy? Elmo, I know it’s a tough crowd here but thanks for speaking your truth. Originally Posted by Dreamgurrl

Of course.

Should I treat him differently if he is?

And no doubt- the "traffic" and board-use and Indys-only hobby-content DWARFED that of ASPD and then ECCIE from 2005 through most of Indys existence. . . . ECCIE always existed, positively, but really most of the local PGH and OH hobby-traffic and content was being posted on Indys until it folded....
Originally Posted by tolstoy

Ummm, it depends on what you define as hobby traffic and content.
Eccie in Pittsburgh has been a busy community for the last 8 years at least.

Now, if you are talking total volume of posts, then you may have a point. But 75% of the posts on Indys were worthless drivel if you weren't into chit chatting, and most of the rest were the same ads placed day after day by the same women. For the most part, Indy's reviews were useless. I view true hobby traffic as real hofo - and in terms of providing true hobby HOFO and real reviews, Eccie did a much better job of that focusing on a much broader range of providers than the old Local 250 that controlled Indys.

Do you guys even consider that perhaps the OP might actually not be a white guy? Elmo, I know it’s a tough crowd here but thanks for speaking your truth. Originally Posted by Dreamgurrl

Who cares if the OP is white, black, yellow, pink or whatever color. I treat everyone the same. And this whole "speaking your truth" stuff is BS. Everyone has opinions, everyone is entitled to state them and others are entitled to challenge them. That is what discourse involves.

Do you guys even consider that perhaps the OP might actually not be a white guy? Elmo, I know it’s a tough crowd here but thanks for speaking your truth. Originally Posted by Dreamgurrl

I'm not a white guy.

I still get action.

I’m not particularly invested in arguing about race relations in Pittsburgh, but if you aren’t aware that Pittsburgh has a reputation as a racist city, you should probably get out more.

The racism in Pittsburgh is so deep and pervasive, it’s been declared a public health crisis. You’d be hard-pressed to find a city anywhere near Pittsburgh’s size with as large of a Black population without a single middle class black neighborhood. These things don’t happen by accident, but again, you guys don’t want to engage in this topic in earnest, and it’s not my interest in arguing with people who aren’t arguing in good faith. Originally Posted by El-mo

-Please list 5 so-called middle class black neighborhoods in other cities

- If Pittsburgh doesn't have a so-called middleclass black neighborhood why can't it be stated all the more, black people can and do live in any neighborhood they choose.
In fact Pittsburgh is not a racist city. Could it be your a racist.

-Please list 5 so-called middle class black neighborhoods in other cities

- If Pittsburgh doesn't have a so-called middleclass black neighborhood why can't it be stated all the more, black people can and do live in any neighborhood they choose.
In fact Pittsburgh is not a racist city. Could it be your a racist. Originally Posted by Chase7

Exactly what I was thinking. Why would anyone think that middle class black folks would congregate into one neighborhood? That thought seem fairly racisty to me

Ummm, it depends on what you define as hobby traffic and content.
Eccie in Pittsburgh has been a busy community for the last 8 years at least.

Now, if you are talking total volume of posts, then you may have a point. But 75% of the posts on Indys were worthless drivel if you weren't into chit chatting, and most of the rest were the same ads placed day after day by the same women. For the most part, Indy's reviews were useless. I view true hobby traffic as real hofo - and in terms of providing true hobby HOFO and real reviews, Eccie did a much better job of that focusing on a much broader range of providers than the old Local 250 that controlled Indys. Originally Posted by berryberry

The traffic during the last years of ASPD, briefly ERAPS, and then on Eccie after Indy's got it's forums in spring of 2005 was mostly (yes) about a dozen PGH hobbyist "stragglers" and Exiles of Indys many of whom had some "personal" problem with Indys, because some of them were Banned (and I have argued Indys banning any of "the Wolfpack" was questionable and ASPD 2004 Texas mod-type stuff) so I always question much of the past and current (like in this thread) "Eccie was always better than Indys!" stuff I read on this board....

Eccie was mostly STRAGGLERS and Indys EXILES of the PGH male hobbyist scene, many of who were BANNED by Indys (either temporarily or permanently, and usually un-justifiably) who then came to Eccie to (why not?) CRITIQUE Indys for YEARS. And there is nothing wrong with anyone Critiquing Indys on Eccie- why not....?

I'm glad Bambino highlighted some of the specific Scandals and Controversies of Indys, because that's the historic Legacy of Indys. If the events happened then PGH hobby-people should talk about them and critique them. But there was a whole lot more going on with Indys in the years of these specific events. Specifically there were usually 6 or 10 GTG's every year where PGH hobby people could gather and exchange intel about the hobby. That is what the PGH hobby scene has been missing for years....

Again, Eccie was a topical-thread Waste....Land, with actual Tumbleweeds floating around threads, in the last several years of Indys. It was mostly guys who had been (unjustifiably) Banned by Indys either temporarily or permanently. Vaguely "entertaining", but not really useful for PGH hobbyists. And again, nothing wrong with Bambino or anyone Specifying the particular Scandals and Controversies of Indys....

What is Eccie Pittsburgh now? It's the intel about SA (good for SA guys), all the same Lurid "street" analyses (you bet- Blu Max was a fixture of Eccie, not Indys) and Eccie is STILL about a dozen active posting PGH hobbyists and ten (10) or so actual PGH providers. From spring of 2005 when Indys got it's forums to when Indys folded (and in the last couple years of Indys many guys left Indys for SA) there were Dozens and Dozens of PGH and OH hobbyists and Indys-only PGH and OH hobby-people who were posting on Indys Exclusively....

PGH always benefited from having Two....Hobby...Boards. I think without the old ASPD, briefly ERAPS and then ECCIE then Indys might have banned MORE PGH hobby people. Without ECCIE Indys might have (might have) become another ASPD circa 2004- banning people at will and without any expectation of any consequence. Historically ASPD and the ECCIE "kept in line" Indys, exactly like the early Indys "kept in line" the late ASPD.....

The "varied" PGH hobby scene of yesteryear, specifically the old ASPD pre-2005 and then Indys 2005 to 2010 or so, time does not exist anymore. Now Eccie is about a dozen or so PGH hobby-guys and ten or less PGH providers posting variably- Eccie is the same as it ever was. SA and FOSTA changed everything. PGH hobby-people are "doing their own thing" by themselves now. Eccie is mostly SA and local "street" analysis now. From 2005 to 2010 or so Indys was a very "organized" and (mostly) transparent hobby-community. And for all of that time Eccie was about a dozen PGH hobbyists and about a half dozen or ten or so local PGH providers- the same as it is now....