http://www.businessinsider.com/japan...no-risk-2011-3Good stuff
I wonder how many people would read this if it was put under their nose..... Originally Posted by Marshall
- pjorourke
- 03-15-2011, 08:37 AM
- charlestudor2005
- 03-15-2011, 08:43 AM
- pjorourke
- 03-15-2011, 08:57 AM
Well he has certainly gotten you in a lather.
- Mazomaniac
- 03-15-2011, 09:20 AM
I'm now hearing over a physics mailing list I'm on that they lost coolant in a spent fuel pond almost immediately after the earthquake.
If that's true and they didn't tell the public about it then somebody needs to go to jail for a long, long time.
Coolant loss in a fuel pond is an automatic INES level 6 (out of 7) emergency. It's one of those nuclear accidents that can actually kill a lot of people - especially if it's one of the MOX fuel ponds.
If TEPCO or the Japanese government tried to cover it up then somebody's ass needs to seriously fry. There's no excuse for that. They should have been calling for help from everyone in sight the moment they knew they had trouble in a pond.
Not too Many Cheers Today,
Mazo.
If that's true and they didn't tell the public about it then somebody needs to go to jail for a long, long time.
Coolant loss in a fuel pond is an automatic INES level 6 (out of 7) emergency. It's one of those nuclear accidents that can actually kill a lot of people - especially if it's one of the MOX fuel ponds.
If TEPCO or the Japanese government tried to cover it up then somebody's ass needs to seriously fry. There's no excuse for that. They should have been calling for help from everyone in sight the moment they knew they had trouble in a pond.
Not too Many Cheers Today,
Mazo.
- Iaintliein
- 03-15-2011, 11:18 AM
An interesting take on the media's coverage, comment #29 by"John" is very good also. Let's keep our fingers n toes crossed that the worst truly is over.'
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/fear-th...r-one/#respond
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/fear-th...r-one/#respond
- nevergaveitathought
- 03-15-2011, 11:59 AM
Halliburton had installed the reactors instead if Immelt's GE
every report would include the phrase.... "former vice president dick cheney's halliburton corp originally designed and installed...etc"
every report would include the phrase.... "former vice president dick cheney's halliburton corp originally designed and installed...etc"
- pjorourke
- 03-15-2011, 12:08 PM
As opposed to Obama's pet crony capitalist GE...
- Mazomaniac
- 03-15-2011, 02:22 PM
This just off the physics wire. It comes from a source in Japan who has so far been several hours in front of the media. Can't personally vouch for its accuracy but the guy's been 100% right so far:
A structure at reactor no. 2 known as the suppression pool is now confirmed to be breached. This structure is part of both the primary reactor containment and the emergency cooling system. With the suppression pool damaged it's now impossible to perform any more emergency venting of the reactor. Radiation levels in the reactor building and control room are now beyond human tolerance. TEPCO has reportedly abandoned the reactor completely, pulled everyone from the control facility, and diverted all of the sea water pumping capacity from no. 2 to other reactors. It's now up to God and the laws of physics as to how bad that one gets.
Both the primary and emergency cooling systems at the no. 4 reactor spent fuel pond are now also completely out. The fire at that reactor burned out all of the power and control systems. They can't even pump sea water into it anymore. They apparently plan to add water to the pool by dropping it from fire-fighting helicopters through the hole that's been blown in the roof and the military has asked for volunteers to fly them. There's still no confirmation if that pond is holding the significantly more dangerous MOX fuel but from the rate that it's boiling off water everybody assumes that it does.
The spent fuel ponds at reactors nos. 5 and 6 are now in trouble as well. They are heating up much slower than the no. 4 pool, though, so it's assumed that they're holding standard uranium fuel rather than MOX which will make them much easier to deal with.
There is now one confirmed death at the plant and more than twenty workers missing. It's unclear whether the missing workers died in the explosions as well or have simply left the site without notifying TEPCO.
More as it comes in.
Mazo.
A structure at reactor no. 2 known as the suppression pool is now confirmed to be breached. This structure is part of both the primary reactor containment and the emergency cooling system. With the suppression pool damaged it's now impossible to perform any more emergency venting of the reactor. Radiation levels in the reactor building and control room are now beyond human tolerance. TEPCO has reportedly abandoned the reactor completely, pulled everyone from the control facility, and diverted all of the sea water pumping capacity from no. 2 to other reactors. It's now up to God and the laws of physics as to how bad that one gets.
Both the primary and emergency cooling systems at the no. 4 reactor spent fuel pond are now also completely out. The fire at that reactor burned out all of the power and control systems. They can't even pump sea water into it anymore. They apparently plan to add water to the pool by dropping it from fire-fighting helicopters through the hole that's been blown in the roof and the military has asked for volunteers to fly them. There's still no confirmation if that pond is holding the significantly more dangerous MOX fuel but from the rate that it's boiling off water everybody assumes that it does.
The spent fuel ponds at reactors nos. 5 and 6 are now in trouble as well. They are heating up much slower than the no. 4 pool, though, so it's assumed that they're holding standard uranium fuel rather than MOX which will make them much easier to deal with.
There is now one confirmed death at the plant and more than twenty workers missing. It's unclear whether the missing workers died in the explosions as well or have simply left the site without notifying TEPCO.
More as it comes in.
Mazo.
- Marcus Aurelius
- 03-15-2011, 02:37 PM
Yes. They also asked the U.S. if they had any volunteer helicopter pilots.
Does anyone remember Anatoly Grishchenko. A true hero of the world. Not just his country.
Does anyone remember Anatoly Grishchenko. A true hero of the world. Not just his country.
- pjorourke
- 03-15-2011, 02:38 PM
- Mazomaniac
- 03-15-2011, 02:39 PM
- Mazomaniac
- 03-15-2011, 02:48 PM
Yes. They also asked the U.S. if they had any volunteer helicopter pilots. Originally Posted by Marcus AureliusI gotta say that, regardless of the bravery these people are showing, helicopters are pretty much a lost cause.
The coolant systems in those pools move thousands of gallons a day. There just ain't that many helicopters in the world.
In addition, if it is MOX in that pool then it will have to be continuously cooled until they can remove it from the site. The plutonium in MOX keeps it hot. You can't just cool it and leave it for while like uranium fuel. You have to keep dumping cold water on it 24 hours a day. You're talking about keeping a fleet of choppers in the air almost continuously for months. I just can't see them pulling it off.
It's starting to look really, really bleak over there. They really need a miracle right now.
Mazo.
- Mazomaniac
- 03-15-2011, 04:26 PM
Just in from Japan:
TEPCO has abandoned the helicopter idea. They will now try to use fire trucks to shoot water into the no. 4 spent fuel pool. However, radiation around the pool is now beyond lethal levels so it's not clear how they're going to get those trucks and people close enough to do any good.
According to some physics guys at Tokyo Institute of Technology the pool's current heating rate gives them about 18 hours before the pool boils off and the rods become completely exposed. At that point it's all over except for the tears.
Mazo.
TEPCO has abandoned the helicopter idea. They will now try to use fire trucks to shoot water into the no. 4 spent fuel pool. However, radiation around the pool is now beyond lethal levels so it's not clear how they're going to get those trucks and people close enough to do any good.
According to some physics guys at Tokyo Institute of Technology the pool's current heating rate gives them about 18 hours before the pool boils off and the rods become completely exposed. At that point it's all over except for the tears.
Mazo.
- nevergaveitathought
- 03-15-2011, 06:38 PM
heres a cute little article ..
the GE guys quit in disgust over the design
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/fukush...ry?id=13141287
the GE guys quit in disgust over the design
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/fukush...ry?id=13141287
- Mazomaniac
- 03-15-2011, 06:50 PM
Here's another good one:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/wo...n.html?_r=1&hp
In 1972, Stephen H. Hanauer, then a safety official with the Atomic Energy Commission, recommended in a memo that the sort of “pressure suppression” system used in G.E.’s Mark 1 plants presented unacceptable safety risks and that it should be discontinued. Among his concerns were that the smaller containment design was more susceptible to explosion and rupture from a buildup in hydrogen — a situation that may have unfolded at the Fukushima Daiichi plant.
“What are the safety advantages of pressure suppression, apart from the cost saving?” Mr. Hanauer asked in the 1972 memo. (The regulatory functions of the Atomic Energy Commission were later transferred to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.)
A written response came later that same year from Joseph Hendrie, who would later become chairman of the N.R.C. He called the idea of a ban on such systems “attractive” because alternative containment systems have the “notable advantage of brute simplicity in dealing with a primary blowdown.”
But he added that the technology had been so widely accepted by the industry and regulatory officials that “reversal of this hallowed policy, particularly at this time, could well be the end of nuclear power.”
Jesus.
Mazo.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/wo...n.html?_r=1&hp
In 1972, Stephen H. Hanauer, then a safety official with the Atomic Energy Commission, recommended in a memo that the sort of “pressure suppression” system used in G.E.’s Mark 1 plants presented unacceptable safety risks and that it should be discontinued. Among his concerns were that the smaller containment design was more susceptible to explosion and rupture from a buildup in hydrogen — a situation that may have unfolded at the Fukushima Daiichi plant.
“What are the safety advantages of pressure suppression, apart from the cost saving?” Mr. Hanauer asked in the 1972 memo. (The regulatory functions of the Atomic Energy Commission were later transferred to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.)
A written response came later that same year from Joseph Hendrie, who would later become chairman of the N.R.C. He called the idea of a ban on such systems “attractive” because alternative containment systems have the “notable advantage of brute simplicity in dealing with a primary blowdown.”
But he added that the technology had been so widely accepted by the industry and regulatory officials that “reversal of this hallowed policy, particularly at this time, could well be the end of nuclear power.”
Jesus.
Mazo.