I have never been a white-knuckled proponent of Southern Pride or the righteousness of 'the Cause." Nor have I ever gone out of my way to be a "Hemorrhoidal Yankee" (both are a PITA and neither one will go away). With that mind set, I always thought that tearing down statues of Confederate 'heroes" to be distasteful. They are focal points for teaching about the wrongs of the past in my view. A number of Nazi death camps have been preserved for these reasons.
However, I recommend that anyone with that mind set should read (wade through) Shelby Foot's three volumes on the Civil War. This is not an overview, but a tedious and detailed look at every aspect of the conflict. The most transformative takeaways for me were the detailed examinations of the backgrounds, motivations and actions pf many of the Southern leaders, both political and military.
I found a new understanding of these men and came to realize that they were distasteful and not to be lauded. Not lauded in the same way we do not honor any of the Nazi leadership or their actions.
I still think monuments, many of them, should remain intact, but their interpretation should be enhanced with factual, unvarnished explanations engraved on indelible, immutable bronze along with them. When one of these things is dug up 5,000 years from now (it could happen!) those who find it will then know what was what with that guy too.
- ICU 812
- 01-29-2023, 06:08 AM
- Precious_b
- 01-29-2023, 11:32 AM
Pissed me off when they tore down a monument in the town where the Alamo is located. Those that be on the City Council were scared about the riots and such other places were having.
God damn idiots didn't realize that the monument was erected as a tribute to soldiers who served on both sides and were both represented when the ribbon cut. Old newspaper articles supported it.
But no. No one lifted a finger to check out the history of the monument. No hate was involved in its creation.
BUT I do understand there were those put up during Civil Rights time to give the finger to such actions of their day.
God damn idiots didn't realize that the monument was erected as a tribute to soldiers who served on both sides and were both represented when the ribbon cut. Old newspaper articles supported it.
But no. No one lifted a finger to check out the history of the monument. No hate was involved in its creation.
BUT I do understand there were those put up during Civil Rights time to give the finger to such actions of their day.
- ICU 812
- 01-29-2023, 02:29 PM
A reality of humanity is that most "Great Men" are multifaceted and complex, with good and bad, positive and negative aspects to their personality, character and way of thinking. Another reality is that we are all a product of our times.
Not to defend, but to recognize it: The institution of slavery is not unique to colonial North America or to the post-colonial United States. We can quibble over degrees of slavery and details; it is always wrong. Some form of enslaving people probably pre-date the use of fire by stone-age Neanderthals (I am speculating of ours). In historic times, there is anthropological testimony of slavery among and between the various indigenous peoples of North America. At times, tribes from the Pacific Northwest made ocean voyages of over 2,000 miles to the north coast of Mexico for the purpose capturing and enslaving members of other tribes.
We must recognize our collective past as we move on into the heart of this, the Twenty-First Century. Tearing down statues of everyone who did something of note, because they were not molded by the norms of our current enlightened society is not productive.
Not to defend, but to recognize it: The institution of slavery is not unique to colonial North America or to the post-colonial United States. We can quibble over degrees of slavery and details; it is always wrong. Some form of enslaving people probably pre-date the use of fire by stone-age Neanderthals (I am speculating of ours). In historic times, there is anthropological testimony of slavery among and between the various indigenous peoples of North America. At times, tribes from the Pacific Northwest made ocean voyages of over 2,000 miles to the north coast of Mexico for the purpose capturing and enslaving members of other tribes.
We must recognize our collective past as we move on into the heart of this, the Twenty-First Century. Tearing down statues of everyone who did something of note, because they were not molded by the norms of our current enlightened society is not productive.
- winn dixie
- 01-29-2023, 02:44 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Well said
Well said
- dilbert firestorm
- 02-25-2023, 03:29 AM
wow
never thought that confederate day could be a conversation piece.
I'm pretty sure Louisiana no longer follows confederate day; its still on the books tho. its not an official holiday, this holiday requires a proclamation by the LA governor to make this an official holiday each year.
people in those days had lots of reasons for wanting to leave the union, slavery was one of those issues, but it was an intersecting issue that crossed many other issues.
never thought that confederate day could be a conversation piece.
I'm pretty sure Louisiana no longer follows confederate day; its still on the books tho. its not an official holiday, this holiday requires a proclamation by the LA governor to make this an official holiday each year.
people in those days had lots of reasons for wanting to leave the union, slavery was one of those issues, but it was an intersecting issue that crossed many other issues.
- eccieuser9500
- 02-25-2023, 04:55 AM
It's disgusting to think racists still celebrate slave mongers. Capitalism: even freedom was for sale. 'musical!
- The_Waco_Kid
- 02-25-2023, 08:28 PM
It's disgusting to think racists still celebrate slave mongers. Capitalism: even freedom was for sale. 'musical!
Originally Posted by eccieuser9500
is it disgusting for BLM and black racist activists to deny the bulk of the slave trade across the world from America to Africa was the direct result of African tribal wars and that blacks willingly sold off their own into slavery for the money? and other reasons ...
culture cancelling history is woke nonsense.
the revolution always eats its own.
- winn dixie
- 02-25-2023, 09:00 PM
Other States celebrate Confederate heroes day on different dates.
- dilbert firestorm
- 02-26-2023, 08:07 PM
- Precious_b
- 02-27-2023, 09:36 AM
- dilbert firestorm
- 02-27-2023, 09:03 PM
Code:
+----------------+------------+--------------+----------------------------------------------------------+ | State | Recognized | Derecognized | Type | +----------------+------------+--------------+----------------------------------------------------------+ | Alabama | 1901 | - | State holiday | +----------------+------------+--------------+----------------------------------------------------------+ | Arkansas | ? | ? | Robert E Lee Day + Martin Luther King Day | +----------------+------------+--------------+----------------------------------------------------------+ | Florida | 1895 | - | Commemoration | +----------------+------------+--------------+----------------------------------------------------------+ | Georgia | 1874 | 2016 | 4th Monday in April is now called "State Holiday" | +----------------+------------+--------------+----------------------------------------------------------+ | Kentucky | ? | - | Commemoration | +----------------+------------+--------------+----------------------------------------------------------+ | Louisiana | c. 1925 | 2022 | | +----------------+------------+--------------+----------------------------------------------------------+ | Mississippi | ? | - | State holiday; Robert E Lee Day + Martin Luther King Day | +----------------+------------+--------------+----------------------------------------------------------+ | Missouri | ? | ? | | +----------------+------------+--------------+----------------------------------------------------------+ | North Carolina | ? | - | Commemoration | +----------------+------------+--------------+----------------------------------------------------------+ | South Carolina | 1896 | - | State holiday (made non-optional in 2000[7]) | +----------------+------------+--------------+----------------------------------------------------------+ | Tennessee | 1903 | - | Annual proclamation required by law | +----------------+------------+--------------+----------------------------------------------------------+ | Texas | 1973 | - | Optional state holiday, | +----------------+------------+--------------+----------------------------------------------------------+ | Virginia | 1899 | 2020 | | +----------------+------------+--------------+----------------------------------------------------------+