When I posted this query I actually hoped that the truth would come out.
When I posted this query I thought there would be SOME discussion, not 6 pages.
I as many of you would like to know what happen (to the best of our knowledge of the actual facts) and to let this go. Learn the lessons and turn the page.
If you fucked up admit it. You do not get to run the social next time. But let US all learn from your mistakes. That includes the handles of those "busted". Let us learn/avoid their mistakes. They got "busted" for fucking up. Simple.
Thanks LAP for the vine. We in Houston are pretty high maintenance if you haven't figured that out yet.
- notanewbie
- 01-09-2010, 10:39 AM
- SofaKingFun
- 01-09-2010, 10:44 AM
Lonesome Dove, why don't you sit on the sidelines and let the grown-ups play.
You threatened Caroline's children. You know it and we know it and if you'd like, I can EASILY produce the evidence. But that isn't the topic of discussion here now, is it?
All I'm asking is, please, do us all a favor and sit this one out. Your credibility isn't helping matters. Thank you.
You threatened Caroline's children. You know it and we know it and if you'd like, I can EASILY produce the evidence. But that isn't the topic of discussion here now, is it?
All I'm asking is, please, do us all a favor and sit this one out. Your credibility isn't helping matters. Thank you.
- guest041110
- 01-09-2010, 10:59 AM
Lonesome Dove, why don't you sit on the sidelines and let the grown-ups play.You are quite mistaken SKF in your assertion but then this thread is about getting answers. As far as your claim, I suggest Reading is Fundamental along with Hooked on Phonics for you because more than a few read what I wrote and understood exactly the context as well as the meaning of what was written. There was no threat to anyone's children but that person had a choice to make to avoid the reprecusions of her actions - she made the wrong choice. You don’t like what I have posted, that is fine but that is your problem to deal with. I suggest you deal with it before making another post like the one I quoted.
You threatened Caroline's children. You know it and we know it and if you'd like, I can EASILY produce the evidence. But that isn't the topic of discussion here now, is it?
All I'm asking is, please, do us all a favor and sit this one out. Your credibility isn't helping matters. Thank you. Originally Posted by SofaKingFun
Stay on topic and leave the rest somewhere else.
- simpleton
- 01-09-2010, 11:04 AM
lonesome your the one that brought it up. Which means he was staying on topic as far as they way you steered the thread. I would like to know what happened just out of curiosity.
- metal_head
- 01-09-2010, 11:07 AM
LD, perhaps you could start a new thread to clear the air.
- CivilBarrister
- 01-09-2010, 11:13 AM
No, we have ALL the copies of the guest list. We snatched ALL of them before we left.
One question I have is did le get the guest list? Originally Posted by simpleton
I did try to re-join the non-aspd social calendar the vetting process was interesting, Civil and ck seemed unconcerned about the content of my character. *chuckle* However they did want me to prove how much money I was spending and who it was with.Wayward - you left out a little bit of our conversations; and BTW, I like you also.
To paraphrase civilbarrister I know you spend money... but we need x number of providers to vouch for you. Easy enough to do, but extremely weird, first I thought this was some special hoop for me. Not that I should be surprised, but it wasn't special or just for me, others went though the same thing.
I've been out with civilbarrister like the guy, he knows who I am some of the folks I play with and where. So what was that extra level of nonsense for? Originally Posted by Wayward
What I told you was ALL guys had to be vouched by 2 providers.
JUST A RULE.
I did not want the parties to be 2 different groups: MY friends and others, where MY friends get to come based on a wink and nod and everyone else had to adhere the to rules. I don't give a shit how much you or anyone else spends.
But future parties are going to be just one group: People I know (and people who are known by my FEW trusted friends).
- SofaKingFun
- 01-09-2010, 11:15 AM
No LD I most certainly am NOT mistaken.
If you'd like to start a thread on your own regarding this issue, I will gladly welcome that and will most certainly oblige you. Just be sure that you know what you're doing because I promise you, it won't be pretty.
But for THIS thread and for THIS topic, it doesn't quite fit into the mix.
So please, once again, stay on topic, or better yet, on the sidelines, and let the grownups play.
Thank you.
SofaKingFun
If you'd like to start a thread on your own regarding this issue, I will gladly welcome that and will most certainly oblige you. Just be sure that you know what you're doing because I promise you, it won't be pretty.
But for THIS thread and for THIS topic, it doesn't quite fit into the mix.
So please, once again, stay on topic, or better yet, on the sidelines, and let the grownups play.
Thank you.
SofaKingFun
- Artie Lange
- 01-09-2010, 11:19 AM
The point I was tying to make with a little humor, any board is as good as the folks that are running and more importantly the folks that post there.Holy goatshit batman. we are fucked on the Y.
Originally Posted by Wayward
- guest041110
- 01-09-2010, 11:20 AM
Simpleton and MH, check your PM’s in about 5 minutes.
- Wayward
- 01-09-2010, 11:31 AM
No, we have ALL the copies of the guest list. We snatched ALL of them before we left.Okay we'll go with your version on that. You really don't know two providers that can vouch for me? Seriously.
Wayward - you left out a little bit of our conversations; and BTW, I like you also.
What I told you was ALL guys had to be vouched by 2 providers.
JUST A RULE.
I did not want the parties to be 2 different groups: MY friends and others, where MY friends get to come based on a wink and nod and everyone else had to adhere the to rules. I don't give a shit how much you or anyone else spends.
But future parties are going to be just one group: People I know (and people who are known by my FEW trusted friends). Originally Posted by CivilBarrister
I believe there was an agenda with these socials that had nothing to do with security. Are you going to tell me that one one profited from these socials?
- ck1942
- 01-09-2010, 11:31 AM
Obviously what happened at the Houston social was a failure by the organizers to totally control entry to the venue. That and a few other facts are well established and the organizers have confessed their sins in other posts.
Fact: Venue security failed. The organizers have acknowledged that. Mea culpa maxima.
Fact: Individual security prevailed. More than 110 attendees can attest.
The 12 out of 120+ who missed their mark are now engaged "in the system" which may spit them out innocent or chew them with a conviction or a plea bargain.
Fact: Unknown (for sure and yet to be explained, if ever) are how and why the venue was penetrated.
Fact: We have zero data to confirm that any hobbyist or provider was “flipped.”
Fact: There will be future gatherings in Houston, and elsewhere.
Fact: All of the organizers not just me, and not just those in the Texas communities, either have learned something about organizing and security or will do so. And yes, I have spoken with organizers outside of Texas in the current week and in the past.
Fact: There is no perfect way to host an M&G with total security.
Fact: There is no perfect way to hobby securely, either.
Just as those who "hobby" must accept some risk to their personal security, so must those who attend an M&G, whether it is inside the venue or on their way to or on their way from. From my POV hobbyists and providers are more vulnerable to risk at an incall apartment or hotel, for example, because there the intent is a lot more obvious.
No one should ever assume that the hobby or M&G activities are totally secure, and I don’t promise either to anyone.
As for our M&Gs, everyone on the invite list is someone who asked to be on it via pm or email. And, before they are sent any invitations they are screened and vouched.
The M&Gs are geared as meet and greets that give “active” hobbyists a chance to meet providers who attend and gives those providers an opportunity to "market" not to "sell."
Hobbyists are vouched in by providers attesting that those hobbyists have had a session with them sometime in the past 90 days. We ask (but not require) that the providers attend as well, so they can visually validate the hobbyist. That has not always happened and is not always practical.
Marketing is only a "look" at the package, not a sales pitch for service in exchange for money. And the looking goes in both directions, might I add.
As for “numbers” on the invite lists, at the end of 2008 - yes, 2008.
Austin & San Antonio – 854
Houston – 522
The above numbers were the genesis for invitations to join Home2 before the aspd staff agreed to open the gates to the provider community and bcd hobbying community at large due to the continuing lack of aspd bandwidth.
The invite lists are pruned regularly for attendance and for "activeness" and that process has been strengthened and we will attempt to improve control of any venue access.
= = = =
On a personal note.
I regret very much the demise of aspd.
I regret very much that I was unable to "kick ass" and get the board owner or her parental designees in 2008 and throughout 2009 to get the damn train back on the tracks.
I do not regret enabling angelimnot to register, and I walked her through all of the admin panels and explained how the board operated.
I do not regret counseling the parents that posting their phone numbers and emails exposed them to a lot of haters who could figure out their personal data. They listened on the phone nmbers but not the email.
I do not regret spending an hour or more on the phone with angelimnot getting her set up as an administrator.
I regret that I was not present for the final hours at aspd since I was banned for whatever transgressions may have been real or perceived.
I do regret that the administrator named as the "super" admin was unable to save the board from its self-destruction.
Fact: Venue security failed. The organizers have acknowledged that. Mea culpa maxima.
Fact: Individual security prevailed. More than 110 attendees can attest.
The 12 out of 120+ who missed their mark are now engaged "in the system" which may spit them out innocent or chew them with a conviction or a plea bargain.
Fact: Unknown (for sure and yet to be explained, if ever) are how and why the venue was penetrated.
Fact: We have zero data to confirm that any hobbyist or provider was “flipped.”
Fact: There will be future gatherings in Houston, and elsewhere.
Fact: All of the organizers not just me, and not just those in the Texas communities, either have learned something about organizing and security or will do so. And yes, I have spoken with organizers outside of Texas in the current week and in the past.
Fact: There is no perfect way to host an M&G with total security.
Fact: There is no perfect way to hobby securely, either.
Just as those who "hobby" must accept some risk to their personal security, so must those who attend an M&G, whether it is inside the venue or on their way to or on their way from. From my POV hobbyists and providers are more vulnerable to risk at an incall apartment or hotel, for example, because there the intent is a lot more obvious.
No one should ever assume that the hobby or M&G activities are totally secure, and I don’t promise either to anyone.
As for our M&Gs, everyone on the invite list is someone who asked to be on it via pm or email. And, before they are sent any invitations they are screened and vouched.
The M&Gs are geared as meet and greets that give “active” hobbyists a chance to meet providers who attend and gives those providers an opportunity to "market" not to "sell."
Hobbyists are vouched in by providers attesting that those hobbyists have had a session with them sometime in the past 90 days. We ask (but not require) that the providers attend as well, so they can visually validate the hobbyist. That has not always happened and is not always practical.
Marketing is only a "look" at the package, not a sales pitch for service in exchange for money. And the looking goes in both directions, might I add.
As for “numbers” on the invite lists, at the end of 2008 - yes, 2008.
Austin & San Antonio – 854
Houston – 522
The above numbers were the genesis for invitations to join Home2 before the aspd staff agreed to open the gates to the provider community and bcd hobbying community at large due to the continuing lack of aspd bandwidth.
The invite lists are pruned regularly for attendance and for "activeness" and that process has been strengthened and we will attempt to improve control of any venue access.
= = = =
On a personal note.
I regret very much the demise of aspd.
I regret very much that I was unable to "kick ass" and get the board owner or her parental designees in 2008 and throughout 2009 to get the damn train back on the tracks.
I do not regret enabling angelimnot to register, and I walked her through all of the admin panels and explained how the board operated.
I do not regret counseling the parents that posting their phone numbers and emails exposed them to a lot of haters who could figure out their personal data. They listened on the phone nmbers but not the email.
I do not regret spending an hour or more on the phone with angelimnot getting her set up as an administrator.
I regret that I was not present for the final hours at aspd since I was banned for whatever transgressions may have been real or perceived.
I do regret that the administrator named as the "super" admin was unable to save the board from its self-destruction.
- Wayward
- 01-09-2010, 11:33 AM
Holy goatshit batman. we are fucked on the Y. Originally Posted by Big JakeSsshhhhhh
That is tippy-top secret.
- CivilBarrister
- 01-09-2010, 11:40 AM
Okay we'll go with your version on that. You really don't know two providers that can vouch for me? Seriously. Originally Posted by WaywardSeriously...which do you think is easier....ME calling/contacting providers asking if they saw you (and every other guy who wants to come to socials) and asking them to confirm that with an email/pm
OR Each guy contacting the 2 providers they saw and asking those questions?
Like I said, this won't be an issue in the future.
- SofaKingFun
- 01-09-2010, 11:55 AM
SsshhhhhhI don't even want to get started on your character, mister.
That is tippy-top secret. Originally Posted by Wayward
- Wayward
- 01-09-2010, 12:11 PM
Seriously...which do you think is easier....ME calling/contacting providers asking if they saw you (and every other guy who wants to come to socials) and asking them to confirm that with an email/pmYou are acting obtuse and completely missing the point, I know that is not true in either case. We are not in a court trying to twist words and win a debate.
OR Each guy contacting the 2 providers they saw and asking those questions?
Like I said, this won't be an issue in the future. Originally Posted by CivilBarrister
You guys were trying to run your game first and security was distant second. You never needed to do a background check on me or several others that I have spoken to. You were trying to market a room full of guys with money in their pockets to a group of ladies. You can sugar coat that until the cows come home, but the perp walk tells a different tale.
You know better, ck1942 knows better and if you didn't you should have asked someone that did. Some one comes up to me as says ~blank~ (name of respected hobbyist withheld) is my buddy, I'd know in 30 seconds if they were telling the truth or not. So would you.
Mea Culpa is great and everything but if you guys really think no one is ever going to miss speak at a social again then this is worse than TSA on Christmas day.