Flynn was framed!!!

I don't need to come up with anything. He has already been convicted.. Originally Posted by Munchmasterman

Fact is that Obama’s nest of snakes, aka the Justice Department, needed Flynn gone to insulate their ridiculous coup and Gestapo’d him out of there. He was ‘convicted’ of nothing, as there was no trial. He signed on the dotted line to save himself and his family from financial ruin. Müller, Meuller, whatever it takes.

The facts are that Flynn was fired because he lied to Pence. And he lied to the FBI. Your opinion of the charges against Flynn is nothing more than that. Your opinion.

He pled guilty to a felony. One of several charges. He avoided the other charges by cooperating.

The idea he is concerned with financial ruin is belied by him trying to withdraw a plea for a crime they have evidence of him committing on tape. They (the FBI) asked if he had discussed sanctions with the Russian ambassador. He said no. They had him on tape.
He knew that. So he went for a plea bargain.

I could accept his explanation until his latest move trying to go back on his word.
Just another trumpy trying to save his own ass.

Isn't this the guy chanting, "Lock her up!"?

He did the right thing but then he reverted to type.
And now you're mad.

Being convicted is a result of being found guilty by a jury or being found guilty by way of admission.



Michael Flynn pleads guilty to lying to FBI on contacts with Russian ambassador
Former national security adviser Michael Flynn pleaded guilty Friday to lying to the FBI about his contacts with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak and, in an ominous sign for the White House, said he is cooperating in the ongoing probe of possible coordination between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin to influence the 2016 election.

When Flynn was forced out of the White House in February, officials said he had misled the administration, including Vice President Pence, about his contacts with Kislyak. But court records and people familiar with the contacts indicated he was acting in consultation with senior Trump transition officials, including President Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner, in his dealings with the diplomat.

Flynn's plea revealed that he was in touch with senior Trump transition officials before and after his communications with the ambassador.
The pre-inauguration communications with Kislyak involved efforts to blunt Obama administration policy decisions — on sanctions on Russia and a U.N. resolution on Israel — potential violations of a rarely enforced law.

[Read the charge against Flynn]

Flynn said in a statement: "It has been extraordinarily painful to endure these many months of false accusations of 'treason' and other outrageous acts. Such false accusations are contrary to everything I have ever done and stood for. But I recognize that the actions I acknowledged in court today were wrong, and, through my faith in God, I am working to set things right.

"My guilty plea and agreement to cooperate with the Special Counsel's Office reflect a decision I made in the best interests of my family and of our country. I accept full responsibility for my actions."
Flynn admitted in his plea that he lied to the FBI about several December conversations with Kislyak. In one, on Dec. 22, he contacted the Russian ambassador about the incoming administration's opposition to a U.N. resolution condemning Israeli settlements as illegal and requested that Russia vote against or delay it, court records say. The ambassador later called back and indicated Russia would not vote against it, the records say.
In another conversation, on Dec. 29, Flynn called the ambassador to ask Russia not to escalate an ongoing feud over sanctions imposed by the Obama administration, court records say. The ambassador later called back and said Russia had chosen not to retaliate, the records say.

Flynn admitted as a part of his plea that when the FBI asked him on Jan. 24 — four days after Trump was inaugurated — about his dealings with the Russians, he did not truthfully describe the interactions. But perhaps more interestingly, he said others in the transition knew he was in contact with Kislyak.

Flynn admitted that before speaking with the ambassador, he called a senior transition official at the Mar-a-Lago resort on Dec. 29 "to discuss what, if anything, to communicate to the Russian ambassador about the U.S. Sanctions" and learned that transition members did not want Russia to escalate the situation. And when the ambassador later informed him Russia would not retaliate, Flynn told senior members of the transition team, court records say. The senior transition official is not identified in records, but people familiar with the matter said it is K.T. McFarland, who is now nominated to be the U.S. ambassador to Singapore.
The records say that a "very senior member of the Presidential Transition Team" directed Flynn to contact officials from foreign governments, including Russia, about the U.N. resolution on Israel. That official is also not named, but people familiar with the matter said it refers to Kushner. According to one transition team official, Kushner told Flynn that blocking the resolution was a top priority of the president-elect.

Abbe Lowell, Kushner's attorney, declined to comment.

[Mueller just penetrated the White House gates with Flynn’s guilty plea]

It is unclear what else Flynn might have told Mueller's team about his work for the administration and interactions with Russians or whether that might have significant consequences for the investigation. Flynn is the highest-profile Trump ally — and the first aide who worked in the White House — to face charges in special counsel Robert S. Mueller III's investigation. Trump developed a close rapport with Flynn on the campaign trail, where the general delivered fiery denunciations of Hillary Clinton, including leading a "Lock her up!" chant at the Republican National Convention.
Outside the courthouse Friday, a small group of protesters shouted "Lock him up!" at Flynn as he left the building.

The Washington Post reported in February that Flynn had privately discussed U.S. sanctions against Russia with that country's ambassador before Trump took office, contrary to public assertions by Trump officials. The Post also reported that acting attorney general Sally Yates warned the White House that the national security adviser might be susceptible to Russian blackmail because he had misled senior officials.

Flynn was forced to resign, but after that, Trump said that his ouster might have been a mistake. Trump's request of then-FBI Director James B. Comey to be lenient with Flynn has also come under scrutiny by the special counsel, and Flynn's cooperation could prove important to Mueller's ongoing probe of whether the president attempted to obstruct justice.
Trump has said previously that he did not direct Flynn to discuss sanctions with the Russian ambassador but that he "would have directed him because that's his job." There is a law — the Logan Act — that bars U.S. citizens from interfering in diplomatic disputes with another country. But the statute has not been used in a prosecution in modern history, and it would not be uncommon for incoming administrations to interface with foreign governments with whom they will soon have to work.

In a statement on Flynn's guilty plea, White House lawyer Ty Cobb said: "The false statements involved mirror the false statements to White House officials which resulted in his resignation in February of this year. Nothing about the guilty plea or the charge implicates anyone other than Mr. Flynn. The conclusion of this phase of the Special Counsel's work demonstrates again that the Special Counsel is moving with all deliberate speed and clears the way for a prompt and reasonable conclusion."

In recent weeks, Trump's attorneys have expected Flynn to plead guilty, particularly after one of Flynn's attorneys, Robert Kelner, said he could no longer communicate about the probe with Trump's lawyers.
Flynn's negotiations to cooperate with Mueller's team began in earnest early last month, according to two people briefed on the discussions. At some point, Mueller's investigators warned Flynn's attorneys that they planned to indict Flynn and also could charge his son, according to the two people, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss private deliberations. Flynn's attorneys, Kelner and Stephen Anthony, provided a proffer of what information Flynn could provide, and then Flynn met with Mueller's team.

The Wednesday before Thanksgiving, White House lawyer John Dowd contacted Flynn's team in a sporadic "check-in" call he made to other defense counsel personnel in the Russia probe every few weeks, people familiar with the matter said. Kelner told Dowd on the call that he could no longer communicate with the White House lawyers. That signaled that Flynn had begun to cooperate or was already actively seeking to cooperate with the special counsel's office, because in either case his lawyers would have a duty to shut off communications with other defense teams.
As part of Flynn's negotiations, his son, Michael G. Flynn, is not expected to be charged, according to a person with knowledge of the talks.

The elder Flynn's case was assigned to U.S. District Judge Rudolph "Rudy" Contreras, 55, a 2012 Obama appointee and veteran federal lawyer who joined the civil division of the U.S. attorney's office in the District in 1994, rising to head the civil division of the Delaware federal prosecutor's office before returning to take the same position in the District in 2006. Contreras also serves on the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court.

The plea caps a stunning fall for the general. A native of Rhode Island who grew up in a large family of modest means, Flynn joined the Army officer school and chose early in his career to specialize in intelligence. Among his mentors was Gen. Stanley McChrystal, who praised Flynn's ability in Afghanistan to bond with his soldiers and get results. In 2012, Flynn was named director of the Defense Intelligence Agency but rankled some subordinates there who questioned his temperament and decision-making. President Barack Obama removed Flynn from the DIA post in October 2014.
Though Flynn gave Trump much-needed national security credentials, he had a mixed reputation among other Trump aides, who thought he gave the president questionable information and worried about some of his business dealings.

Flynn has been a major investigative target of the FBI's probe into Russian meddling in the 2016 election. A key question for investigators is whether any Trump associates coordinated with Russian officials to try to sway the presidential race.

Flynn's contacts with Kislyak, who stepped down from his ambassador post in July, are a key issue in the probe, and the plea deal could open new doors for investigators trying to determine what, if anything, Trump knew about such contacts.

Flynn has also come under scrutiny for having a secret financial stake in major foreign policy decisions while advising Trump during the campaign, the transition and the brief period he served in the administration.

In his agreement, Flynn acknowledged lying in his foreign-agent disclosure forms when he claimed that he did not know the extent of the Turkish government's involvement in a contract his firm had obtained and when he claimed that an op-ed he wrote encouraging the U.S. government to expel a rebel cleric and enemy of the Turkish president was at his own initiative.

The maximum penalty for making a false statement is five years in prison, though both sides said Flynn would face a recommended sentence of up to six months in prison under federal guidelines.

The Defense Department inspector general's office, which announced in April that it was investigating Flynn for his failure to report overseas trips to Russia after his Army retirement, has put that case on hold in deference to Mueller's probe.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...tial_manual_15

Fact is that Obama’s nest of snakes, aka the Justice Department, needed Flynn gone to insulate their ridiculous coup and Gestapo’d him out of there. He was ‘convicted’ of nothing, as there was no trial. He signed on the dotted line to save himself and his family from financial ruin. Müller, Meuller, whatever it takes. Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

The facts are that Flynn was fired because he lied to Pence. And he lied to the FBI. Your opinion of the charges against Flynn is nothing more than that. Your opinion.

He pled guilty to a felony. One of several charges. He avoided the other charges by cooperating.

The idea he is concerned with financial ruin is belied by him trying to withdraw a plea for a crime they have evidence of him committing on tape. They (the FBI) asked if he had discussed sanctions with the Russian ambassador. He said no. They had him on tape.
He knew that. So he went for a plea bargain.

I could accept his explanation until his latest move trying to go back on his word.
Just another trumpy trying to save his own ass.

Isn't this the guy chanting, "Lock her up!"?

He did the right thing but then he reverted to type.
And now you're mad.

Being convicted is a result of being found guilty by a jury or being found guilty by way of admission.



Michael Flynn pleads guilty to lying to FBI on contacts with Russian ambassador
Former national security adviser Michael Flynn pleaded guilty Friday to lying to the FBI about his contacts with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak and, in an ominous sign for the White House, said he is cooperating in the ongoing probe of possible coordination between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin to influence the 2016 election.

When Flynn was forced out of the White House in February, officials said he had misled the administration, including Vice President Pence, about his contacts with Kislyak. But court records and people familiar with the contacts indicated he was acting in consultation with senior Trump transition officials, including President Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner, in his dealings with the diplomat.

Flynn's plea revealed that he was in touch with senior Trump transition officials before and after his communications with the ambassador.
The pre-inauguration communications with Kislyak involved efforts to blunt Obama administration policy decisions — on sanctions on Russia and a U.N. resolution on Israel — potential violations of a rarely enforced law.

[Read the charge against Flynn]

Flynn said in a statement: "It has been extraordinarily painful to endure these many months of false accusations of 'treason' and other outrageous acts. Such false accusations are contrary to everything I have ever done and stood for. But I recognize that the actions I acknowledged in court today were wrong, and, through my faith in God, I am working to set things right.

"My guilty plea and agreement to cooperate with the Special Counsel's Office reflect a decision I made in the best interests of my family and of our country. I accept full responsibility for my actions."
Flynn admitted in his plea that he lied to the FBI about several December conversations with Kislyak. In one, on Dec. 22, he contacted the Russian ambassador about the incoming administration's opposition to a U.N. resolution condemning Israeli settlements as illegal and requested that Russia vote against or delay it, court records say. The ambassador later called back and indicated Russia would not vote against it, the records say.
In another conversation, on Dec. 29, Flynn called the ambassador to ask Russia not to escalate an ongoing feud over sanctions imposed by the Obama administration, court records say. The ambassador later called back and said Russia had chosen not to retaliate, the records say.

Flynn admitted as a part of his plea that when the FBI asked him on Jan. 24 — four days after Trump was inaugurated — about his dealings with the Russians, he did not truthfully describe the interactions. But perhaps more interestingly, he said others in the transition knew he was in contact with Kislyak.

Flynn admitted that before speaking with the ambassador, he called a senior transition official at the Mar-a-Lago resort on Dec. 29 "to discuss what, if anything, to communicate to the Russian ambassador about the U.S. Sanctions" and learned that transition members did not want Russia to escalate the situation. And when the ambassador later informed him Russia would not retaliate, Flynn told senior members of the transition team, court records say. The senior transition official is not identified in records, but people familiar with the matter said it is K.T. McFarland, who is now nominated to be the U.S. ambassador to Singapore.
The records say that a "very senior member of the Presidential Transition Team" directed Flynn to contact officials from foreign governments, including Russia, about the U.N. resolution on Israel. That official is also not named, but people familiar with the matter said it refers to Kushner. According to one transition team official, Kushner told Flynn that blocking the resolution was a top priority of the president-elect.

Abbe Lowell, Kushner's attorney, declined to comment.

[Mueller just penetrated the White House gates with Flynn’s guilty plea]

It is unclear what else Flynn might have told Mueller's team about his work for the administration and interactions with Russians or whether that might have significant consequences for the investigation. Flynn is the highest-profile Trump ally — and the first aide who worked in the White House — to face charges in special counsel Robert S. Mueller III's investigation. Trump developed a close rapport with Flynn on the campaign trail, where the general delivered fiery denunciations of Hillary Clinton, including leading a "Lock her up!" chant at the Republican National Convention.
Outside the courthouse Friday, a small group of protesters shouted "Lock him up!" at Flynn as he left the building.

The Washington Post reported in February that Flynn had privately discussed U.S. sanctions against Russia with that country's ambassador before Trump took office, contrary to public assertions by Trump officials. The Post also reported that acting attorney general Sally Yates warned the White House that the national security adviser might be susceptible to Russian blackmail because he had misled senior officials.

Flynn was forced to resign, but after that, Trump said that his ouster might have been a mistake. Trump's request of then-FBI Director James B. Comey to be lenient with Flynn has also come under scrutiny by the special counsel, and Flynn's cooperation could prove important to Mueller's ongoing probe of whether the president attempted to obstruct justice.
Trump has said previously that he did not direct Flynn to discuss sanctions with the Russian ambassador but that he "would have directed him because that's his job." There is a law — the Logan Act — that bars U.S. citizens from interfering in diplomatic disputes with another country. But the statute has not been used in a prosecution in modern history, and it would not be uncommon for incoming administrations to interface with foreign governments with whom they will soon have to work.

In a statement on Flynn's guilty plea, White House lawyer Ty Cobb said: "The false statements involved mirror the false statements to White House officials which resulted in his resignation in February of this year. Nothing about the guilty plea or the charge implicates anyone other than Mr. Flynn. The conclusion of this phase of the Special Counsel's work demonstrates again that the Special Counsel is moving with all deliberate speed and clears the way for a prompt and reasonable conclusion."

In recent weeks, Trump's attorneys have expected Flynn to plead guilty, particularly after one of Flynn's attorneys, Robert Kelner, said he could no longer communicate about the probe with Trump's lawyers.
Flynn's negotiations to cooperate with Mueller's team began in earnest early last month, according to two people briefed on the discussions. At some point, Mueller's investigators warned Flynn's attorneys that they planned to indict Flynn and also could charge his son, according to the two people, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss private deliberations. Flynn's attorneys, Kelner and Stephen Anthony, provided a proffer of what information Flynn could provide, and then Flynn met with Mueller's team.

The Wednesday before Thanksgiving, White House lawyer John Dowd contacted Flynn's team in a sporadic "check-in" call he made to other defense counsel personnel in the Russia probe every few weeks, people familiar with the matter said. Kelner told Dowd on the call that he could no longer communicate with the White House lawyers. That signaled that Flynn had begun to cooperate or was already actively seeking to cooperate with the special counsel's office, because in either case his lawyers would have a duty to shut off communications with other defense teams.
As part of Flynn's negotiations, his son, Michael G. Flynn, is not expected to be charged, according to a person with knowledge of the talks.

The elder Flynn's case was assigned to U.S. District Judge Rudolph "Rudy" Contreras, 55, a 2012 Obama appointee and veteran federal lawyer who joined the civil division of the U.S. attorney's office in the District in 1994, rising to head the civil division of the Delaware federal prosecutor's office before returning to take the same position in the District in 2006. Contreras also serves on the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court.

The plea caps a stunning fall for the general. A native of Rhode Island who grew up in a large family of modest means, Flynn joined the Army officer school and chose early in his career to specialize in intelligence. Among his mentors was Gen. Stanley McChrystal, who praised Flynn's ability in Afghanistan to bond with his soldiers and get results. In 2012, Flynn was named director of the Defense Intelligence Agency but rankled some subordinates there who questioned his temperament and decision-making. President Barack Obama removed Flynn from the DIA post in October 2014.
Though Flynn gave Trump much-needed national security credentials, he had a mixed reputation among other Trump aides, who thought he gave the president questionable information and worried about some of his business dealings.

Flynn has been a major investigative target of the FBI's probe into Russian meddling in the 2016 election. A key question for investigators is whether any Trump associates coordinated with Russian officials to try to sway the presidential race.

Flynn's contacts with Kislyak, who stepped down from his ambassador post in July, are a key issue in the probe, and the plea deal could open new doors for investigators trying to determine what, if anything, Trump knew about such contacts.

Flynn has also come under scrutiny for having a secret financial stake in major foreign policy decisions while advising Trump during the campaign, the transition and the brief period he served in the administration.

In his agreement, Flynn acknowledged lying in his foreign-agent disclosure forms when he claimed that he did not know the extent of the Turkish government's involvement in a contract his firm had obtained and when he claimed that an op-ed he wrote encouraging the U.S. government to expel a rebel cleric and enemy of the Turkish president was at his own initiative.

The maximum penalty for making a false statement is five years in prison, though both sides said Flynn would face a recommended sentence of up to six months in prison under federal guidelines.

The Defense Department inspector general's office, which announced in April that it was investigating Flynn for his failure to report overseas trips to Russia after his Army retirement, has put that case on hold in deference to Mueller's probe.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...tial_manual_15



Originally Posted by Munchmasterman

reading the WaPoopoo is no way to go through life, son.








BAHAAHAHASHAAAAAAAAAA

Why don't you admit you have nothing instead of digging into your deep bag of yousuck posts?
Maybe you could treat me to an actual and factual refute sometime.

And yeah, I say so.

reading the WaPoopoo is no way to go through life, son.








BAHAAHAHASHAAAAAAAAAA Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

that wapoop article was then, this is now.

there are a number of problems with that interview which seems to have been ignored by the courts and media.

if this was just a debriefing session, he wouldn't been charged with a technical perjury, but perhaps of lack of candor.

flynn didn't have a lawyer present in that interview. agents told flynn a lawyer wasn't needed.

This is on trump for failing to set up an interview process with white house. apparently, bush43 & obama had a process in place for fbi to interview subjects with the white house, trump didn't. and comey took advantage of that miscue.


also, they had a recording of that conversation which raises a question of why they did this interview.

Recall that prosecution has delayed many, many times. My twisted view is that they keep allowing more and more information to be "pulled" into open court via discovery, which then becomes part of "the public record". It's a good thing IMHO. Ms. Powell is a supreme playa.

is judge emmit sullivan having 2nd thoughts about the flynn's case?

he has clearly delayed sentencing inspite of the support for the prosecution.

the new stuff coming out might be hard for the judge to ignore fbi misconduct.

DOJ can reverse this case by dropping it if they wanted to.
(emily litella moment... "never mind") Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

Intent don't matter. The governing statutes are about how it is handled. Not why or how you felt about the way you handled it. You can test out that theory, in the comfort of your own local jurisdiction. Go speeding down a local highway at something over 100 MPH, weaving around pesky cars doing the speed limit. When you get pulled over, likely from flat tires caused by stop-strips, just tell the officer that it was not our intent to cause harm. If nothing else, it will give them a good chuckle as they handcuff you and haul you away

I hear yeah. I think, just an opinion, that after decades of people using information against her, she was so paranoid, she didn't want anybody using the decisions she was making as political fodder against her. I'm not excusing what she did, like I said, I think she should have been punished but I have not seen any evidence that she did this for monetary gain ( but her foundation sure as hell did ) or to intentionally hurt the country as in getting even with somebody that had done her wrong. Those would easily be seen as prosecutable.
Originally Posted by HedonistForever

Intent don't matter. Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

The level of "intent" does matter when assessing the level of the punishment for the alleged offense, and in some instances elevate the activity to a crime when the requisite level of "intent" is met. It can also have to do with prosecutorial decision.

In your scenario of 100+ mph "intent" is not a required element of the crime, other than the activity was simply intended as presumed from the activities .... weaving in and out of traffic and continuing down the road without getting the vehicle under control... as opposed to a mechanical issue with the vehicle that prohibited the driver from stopping the vehicle.

There are very few, if any, "non-intent" crimes in the U.S. as the application of the concept of the actor intentionally doing the activity that was the basis of the alleged crime. There are some Federal crimes that come close, but there is an intent still there implied by the activities.

I hear yeah. I think, just an opinion, that after decades of people using information against her, she was so paranoid, she didn't want anybody using the decisions she was making as political fodder against her. I'm not excusing what she did, like I said, I think she should have been punished but I have not seen any evidence that she did this for monetary gain ( but her foundation sure as hell did ) or to intentionally hurt the country as in getting even with somebody that had done her wrong. Those would easily be seen as prosecutable.
Originally Posted by HedonistForever

she was so paranoid, she didn't want anybody using the decisions she was making as political fodder against her.

Did you vote for her in 2016?

Intent don't matter. The governing statutes are about how it is handled. Not why or how you felt about the way you handled it. You can test out that theory, in the comfort of your own local jurisdiction. Go speeding down a local highway at something over 100 MPH, weaving around pesky cars doing the speed limit. When you get pulled over, likely from flat tires caused by stop-strips, just tell the officer that it was not our intent to cause harm. If nothing else, it will give them a good chuckle as they handcuff you and haul you away Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

I agree, I grew up hearing that ignorance of the law is never an excuse for breaking the law or whether you "intended" to break the law or not and then along came James Comey and said that intent, whether written in the law or not has been practiced for as long as he can remember.


This backs up your point of view and the one I held until Comey came along.


https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebat...lowing-the-law

The relevant statute places a special burden on public officials to safeguard national secrets, making it a crime to remove national defense information from its “proper place of custody” even through mere “gross negligence.” There is no requirement of finding specific intent.

Here is one of the admittedly few arguments to the contrary and these are so called legal experts who have a different opinion.


https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/sdut-classified-information-clinton-intent-2016jul05-story.html

When FBI Director James Comey announced Tuesday that his agency would recommend no criminal charges be filed against Hillary Clinton for using a private email server while secretary of state, he said that “no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case.”
Comey — a former prosecutor and onetime U.S. Attorney in Manhattan who rose to be the second highest-ranking official in the Justice Department under President George W. Bush — came to that conclusion after a year-long investigation into Clinton’s email practices that focused on classified emails that were transmitted and stored on the private server.


The reason? Without going into specifics, Comey said there was no evidence that Clinton intentionally transmitted or mishandled classified information.
And the lack of any evidence of intent — a fundamental aspect to criminal law — tipped the scales in Clinton’s favor, legal experts experienced in prosecutions of mishandling classified information said Tuesday.
“In a classified information case, the most difficult element is always intent — the mental state,” lawyer James P. Melendres said.

So clearly, some legal minds believe intent is there even though the word is not. Isn't this the basis for the whole argument of "Textualism"? "If the word isn't there, it may not be presupposed as to apply". But then we argue about Original Intent, so there is ample history that Intent has been at least part of our legal discussion and understanding from the beginning.


Why do some want to give Judges more leeway than applying the letter of the law to everybody and want to allow intent to be part of a judges consideration.


I'm just trying to point out all the things that go into considering whether intent can be used in legal decisions or it can't or at least shouldn't.


While I usually come down on "intent doesn't matter" others believe it does.


I don't think it is a settled matter and I see that it is being done all the time even if it doesn't exist in law.

Double post

....and then along came James Comey and said that intent, whether written in the law or not has been practiced for as long as he can remember..... Originally Posted by HedonistForever

That's not what I recall Comey saying with respect to his conclusion that HillariousNoMore could not be prosecuted ...

.. what I recall Comey saying is that there was not evidence of actual intent on her part and that she could not be prosecuted without direct evidence of intent ...

That is a pretty close paraphrase .... and my response today is the same as it was the moment I heard him making that ridiculous statement as though it were fact in law ...

Every jury instruction in Federal court (whether civil or criminal) includes a charge to the jury containing an instruction and definition on "circumstantial evidence" that provides that the jurors do not have to have direct evidence to prove a fact, but they can find a fact based upon circumstances that would imply the fact existed ... again that's a fair paraphrase.

Given Comey's background and his own self-delusion of expertise:


He is a fucking liar.

Why don't you admit you have nothing instead of digging into your deep bag of yousuck posts?
Maybe you could treat me to an actual and factual refute sometime.

And yeah, I say so. Originally Posted by Munchmasterman

what for? i've done that dozens of times here. you'll just claim i'm lying or ignorant or both. you get proved wrong over and over and yet you won't admit it.

Cannot debate with fascist DPST's like blue Meanie- they are too divorced from reality in the hatred and propaganda fixation to respond with anything other than name-calling and scatology.

and WaPo propaganda!

Did you vote for her in 2016? Originally Posted by LexusLover

No need to scream. I did not and you obviously didn't read everything I wrote or you wouldn't be asking that question. I repeatedly said she should have been found guilty and she should have been punished. What I was trying to do and I can see in your case I failed, was to explore why she might have done what she did but maybe that isn't allowed? I was exploring "intent" a subject you wrote about.

The level of "intent" does matter when assessing the level of the punishment for the alleged offense, and in some instances elevate the activity to a crime when the requisite level of "intent" is met. It can also have to do with prosecutorial decision.

And yet you scream at me for expressing an opinion as to that intent. I don't get your problem for me expressing an opinion that you obviously agree with. What am I missing?