Green Energy versus Permian Basin Blues and fossil fuels

Save the Southern green coastal tree moth !

Save the Southern green coastal tree moth ! Originally Posted by winn dixie

DPST's misidentified the Southern Green Coastal Tree Moth
It is actually the Emerald Ash Borer.

Somehow I doubt this will drive any real discussion since it doesn't involve a lot of name calling but it is a fairly thoughtful discussion about the challenges of renewable energy from an avowed environmentalist.In short, it puts the lie to the idea that those of us that are skeptical about renewables are "afraid" or are bent on the destruction of the planet or in the pocket of big oil. Some of us simply see the fallacy of renewables as some sort of panacea without any environmental or social costs. Approximately 17 minutes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-yALPEpV4w

Somehow I doubt this will drive any real discussion since it doesn't involve a lot of name calling but it is a fairly thoughtful discussion about the challenges of renewable energy from an avowed environmentalist.In short, it puts the lie to the idea that those of us that are skeptical about renewables are "afraid" or are bent on the destruction of the planet or in the pocket of big oil. Some of us simply see the fallacy of renewables as some sort of panacea without any environmental or social costs. Approximately 17 minutes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-yALPEpV4w Originally Posted by Ducbutter

I to was a sceptic duc. After I hugged my first tree everything changed. I was at one with the world and humanity. Im so glad AOC has been elected by the people. The winds of change are a blowing

DPST's misidentified the Southern Green Coastal Tree Moth
It is actually the Emerald Ash Borer. Originally Posted by oeb11

Yes. I stand corrected! But the dpst's will never own up to their mistakes!

With the Emerald Ash Borer in jeopardy of extinction due to these wind farms! The plagueous green tree worts which the Emerald Ash Borer feed on, have exploded in population. The plagueous green tree worts suffocate trees and plant life. If uncontrolled the plagueous green tree worts can decimate entire farms and forests. Leaving baron and and worthless land that nothing can grow in, due to their toxic fecal waste. Shut down these wind farms. And save the Emerald Ash Borer! So that they can eat and control the plagueous green tree worts!!

Drill baby Drill !

Im so glad we have responsible and altruistic politicians like AOC, Chuck and Nancy. God told us to tend the Garden. AOC is following Gods orders. God wanted AOC to be elected. You know just like the spokesman for The Year of The Pig, Sarah Huckabee Sanders said God wanted Trump to be President. He also wanted AOC, Chuck and Nancy to clean up his messes. Thank you God

Duplicate Post

Tiny, I don't follow exchanges on here as closely as many posting here do, so pardon my failure to comprehend the ass-whooping you administered to me about fracking. I finally went back to that thread and saw this, posted by you:

Agrarian's comments about carbon emissions, which he appears to confuse with air pollution, have more merit, because they potentially effect people outside the Permian Basin. I still disagree, but my arguments aren't as strong.

If I recall, the Supreme Court during Shrub's presidency classified (yeah, the Court doing this sort of thing is awkward) CO2 as a pollutant, correct? In other words, carbon emissions are classified as air pollution. I also stand by my contention that water use and water degradation associated with fracking is immense. It's a huge factor in the fracking sector. I think it's unacceptable. We should reconsider sacrificing air quality and so much water for energy that could be sourced in other ways. Originally Posted by agrarian

Agrarian, You're changing the subject. We're talking about your PERMIAN BASIN ass whipping. A drilling engineer in the Permian Basin would laugh at the idea that the frac fluids he's injecting at 9000' vertical depth pose a realistic threat to the groundwater people use, which is much shallower.

You should take a tour of West Texas and Southeast New Mexico. Go to the county courthouses in Pecos, Kermit, Lovington, Odessa, and Stanton. Stand up on a soap box and tell them what you think, how they need to save their precious groundwater resources by outlawing fracking. See what kind of reception you get. What I'm saying, they know the trade offs of living, working, farming and ranching in the oil field. They know about the quantities of groundwater being used for hydraulic fracturing. And they're happy with the status quo.

Does that mean that there shouldn't be reasonable regulation by regulatory bodies, in Texas meaning the Railroad and Texas Water Commissions? Of course not. Does that mean that the majority of people in communities affected by fracking shouldn't be able to ban fracking? Again, of course not. If someone wanted to drill a 2000' deep well in my backyard or community and frac the hell out of it, I'd be against it. Government should be closest to the people, and know-it-all bureaucrats and politicians in Washington D.C. shouldn't be dictating to the rest of us.

As to the carbon emissions, beware, perfect is the enemy of good. Shut down hydraulic fracturing and cheap natural gas goes away. This includes gas used in the USA to generate electricity that formerly was generated from coal. And gas that will be exported as LNG to Asian and other countries and used in place of coal. Coal, as you should know, emits a lot more CO2 per BTU generated than natural gas.

If you want to eliminate risk associated with all human activity, and go to "0" net carbon emissions, then you need to eliminate factories, driving, fracking, flying, etc. Not go back to the iron age, but rather the stone age. And if the USA does it, so what? We don't account for that large a percentage of the world's CO2 emissions.

Would something like a carbon tax, used to cut the income tax or pay down the debt, make sense? I think so. It's good to encourage renewables. But banning fracking everywhere is stupid. And the Green New Deal, with zero net CO2 emissions by 2030 or 2040, is a recipe for disaster.

In my younger days, back when I worked 60 hour weeks on grassroots politics, I did periodically organize against mainstream positions, even economic ones, and I understand better than most the pressures of fighting the establishment. It appears that Permian Basin and other regional associations are aware of the threats to water posed by their activities. This is documented, and if you check online sources about this topic you will learn this. Telling the folks in the Permian Basin that what they're doing is a problem is like telling corn farmers and their powerful associations that pouring synthetic nitrate fertilizers (created thanks to fossil fuels, btw) on the land harms water quality. They won't listen, or they'll listen only to a point. They could give a rat's ass about hypoxia, it seems. I defer to your expertise about fracking and the PB, but I will continue to say this: We can do better than burning fossil fuels. We can do better than deriving energy by injecting chemicals into the earth. We not only can do better but we must do better. I have faith in us that we can do that.

Drill baby Drill ! Originally Posted by winn dixie

And "GO NUKE, GO NUKE, GO NUKE...!

It's unfortunate that we've demonized nuclear for so long in this country. Taking into account carbon dioxide pollution nuclear energy is by far the cleanest type of energy we can produce. Originally Posted by txdot-guy

Carbon Dioxide Pollution? Carbon dioxide isn't a pollutant its the by product of animal respiration. Plants utilize Carbon Dioxide in their respiration for energy and give off Oxygen which is what we breath. You obviously have been taking in the misinformation spewed by Liberals.

Carbon Dioxide Pollution? Carbon dioxide isn't a pollutant its the by product of animal respiration. Plants utilize Carbon Dioxide in their respiration for energy and give off Oxygen which is what we breath. You obviously have been taking in the misinformation spewed by Liberals. Originally Posted by Levianon17

The highlighted portion deserves one of Dilberts memes.