What is the definition of "POOR" in America?

YES! * Opportunity was present the entire time!

Lack of goals , lack of focus , lack of drive & ambition are qualities which I used to define "poor".

Thank You for providing an excellent example!

We quite obviously, have different expectations from our fellow citizens. Originally Posted by MrGiz

What you fail to note is that most poor folks lack is parental tutoring. Most folks that have it, take it for granted. They assign no credit for their success in life to that huge factor. What a total croc of shit.

Yes opportunity may be present but if you have never been given the tools needed to exploit that opportunity than what good is it?

Get off your high horse and get a dose of reality.


Read Gladwell's Outliners. What Old-T is saying is that many many poor people will never be put in a position to
succeed. That is just a natural born fact.

Outliers examines how a person's environment, in conjunction with personal drive and motivation, affects his or her possibility and opportunity for success. Gladwell stated, "The hope with Tipping Point was it would help the reader understand that real change was possible. With Blink, I wanted to get people to take the enormous power of their intuition seriously. My wish with Outliers is that it makes us understand how much of a group project success is. When outliers become outliers it is not just because of their own efforts. It's because of the contributions of lots of different people and lots of different circumstances."[17]

What you fail to note is that most poor folks lack is parental tutoring. Most folks that have it, take it for granted. They assign no credit for their success in life to that huge factor. Originally Posted by WTF

Of course they don't. They're like a guy at the end of a 3 mile race, huffing and puffing, puking their guts out, who think they're hot shit because they finished 3 feet ahead of the other guy.....nevermind the fact that they had a 2 mile head start.

Is there "opportunity" for everyone? Of course. But some people have 100 ping pong balls in the bin, and some people have 1 ping pong ball in the bin. That's just a fact. But i don't expect the MrGiz's of the world to accept that fact, since that would blow a hole in their feel-good-about-themselves theory that they're simply better and more deserving.

Get off your high horse and get a dose of reality. Originally Posted by WTF

Naaaaaahhhhh... I worked too hard to get here... I enjoy the view just fine. *BTW... the view is quite real too!

What Old-T is saying is that many many poor people will never be put in a position to succeed. That is just a natural born fact.

I have never disputed that fact. * Whether you're born Prince or Pauper.... failing is easy!

But i don't expect the MrGiz's of the world to accept that fact, since that would blow a hole in their feel-good-about-themselves theory that they're simply better and more deserving. Originally Posted by Doove

I am only deserving of what I have done for myself! * Have I had a little luck along the way? * Absolutely!

Not everybody is born with equal talents Originally Posted by Marshall

No kidding. What do you think i've been saying for the last 6 months?

aren't the people who work harder and smarter entitled to more?

Uh, yeah. And only the commie you've invented in your head to argue with would say otherwise.

You can only impose on people up to a point....we may be near that point

It's funny that the wider the rich/poor gap becomes, the more oppressed the rich people feel.

watch for the free-loaders to start rioting, raping, killing and looting.

Very telling statement about your real views.

Boo Hoo! Life's not fair....so what, deal with it.......

And very telling about you as a person.

No kidding. What do you think i've been saying for the last 6 months?
but the less talented are entitled to the work of the talented?
Uh, yeah. And only the commie you've invented in your head to argue with would say otherwise. read the Communist Manifesto, it parrots your views......

It's funny that the wider the rich/poor gap becomes, the more oppressed the rich people feel. America is richer? You haven't been watching the news.....HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! You obviously share odumbo's definition of rich......

Very telling statement about your real views.
just a FACT! watch the news and see....even in France they were rioting and looting because the retirement age went from 60 to 62.....[oh, and some people did die, and a woman did get raped during that French rioting]
And very telling about you as a person. Originally Posted by Doove

it is very telling.....tells us I am right! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! Anyone disagree that life's not fair and we all have to deal with it? I loved your response, because you HAD NO SUBSTANTIVE response to what I posted! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

Who are you to impose your moral views on everybody else? You are EXACTLY like the religious people you condemn....HYPOCRISY!

Each person has maybe 100 people in his life who he would call family or friend.....the rest of the world are strangers to us.....why does Doove tell us we have to take care of strangers before our own family and friends? or even at all?.....Am I not free to ignore them?

Who are you to impose your morals views on everybody else? You are EXACTLY like the religious people you condemn....HYPOCRISY! Originally Posted by Marshall

My moral views aren't based on an imaginary friend in the sky. So it simply boils down to a battle of my moral views and your moral views. Where's the hypocrisy.....or...excuse me....HYPOCRISY...in that?

Each person has maybe 100 who they would call family or friend.....the rest of the world are strangers us.....why does Doove tell us we have to take care of strangers before our family and friends, or even at all.....

Because i'm not an angry selfish bastard who only thinks of himself?

The harder I work, the luckier I get! Originally Posted by Marshall

And i can only wonder how many people out there, right this very moment, people making half of what you're making, who aren't able to sit at a computer all day posting on a hooker board because they're actually working.

My moral views aren't based on an imaginary friend in the sky. So it simply boils down to a battle of my moral views and your moral views. Where's the hypocrisy.....or...excuse me....HYPOCRISY...in that?

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! I'm an atheist, so I don't have an imaginary friend in the sky.....HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! You don't want to have other people impose their morals on you, but you want to impose your morals on them! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!...that's where the hypocrisy is.....if it wasn't, you wouldn't want to impose your morals on anybody.....you're just angry that the majority of people disagree with you.......

When one goes examining the value of a moral, one needs to examine how useful it is and if it comports with human nature.....the things I believe are the beliefs of the majority of people and comport with human nature......majority is entitled to their way......if you don't like it, go someplace where the majority of people agree with you......Federalism would make that easier for you but liberals believe in statism rather than Federalism.......

Because i'm not an angry selfish bastard who only thinks of himself? Originally Posted by Doove

Yes you are........

but probably being in a hospital for the past 4 months has something to do with my available time.....what's your excuse? Originally Posted by Marshall

I've been in a hospital for the past 5 months.

Poor is when your income won’t meet the needs of your modest lifestyle. By a modest lifestyle I mean clean, safe daycare for you two kids while the parents work; a clean, safe apartment with enough bedrooms for children; a refrigerator with healthy, not meat deficient – high carb food in it; enough clothing to have a change of cloths for everyone for a week; a modest car that is reliable; bus money; money for student lunches; health insurance and regular trips to the doctor. These are the hallmarks of a modest lifestyle.


Poor isn’t not having as much money in a depression as one had during the high life preceding it. Poor isn’t having to move out of your 3,500 sq ft house that you couldn’t afford in the first place to live in a clean, safe apartment. Poor isn’t loosing your BMW and driving a Kia. Poor isn’t foregoing real designer clothes from finer department stores and having to settle for second-rate designer clothes sold at outlets. Poor isn’t cooking at home vs. dining out five nights a week.

There’s a difference between poor and broke. I know which one I’d take.

I feel that most Americans live in a bubble and can be very apathetic towards others' current situation because in their eyes, it doesn't affect them directly, so there's no need for concern. Originally Posted by Can I Play Too???

Don’t the preachers expose from their pulpits that if you are a good person, if you tive (sp), if you follow in the steps of Jesus, you’ll be rewarded with worldly success. In other words if you’re a sinner, your punishment is poverty.

Today, there are 44.3 million people on food stamps, which is an all-time record. Originally Posted by Can I Play Too???

One can qualify for food stamps with a letter from your “employer” that states you make $250 (or whatever figure fits the formula) a week and filling out a government form. As a small business owner, I’ve filled out plenty of those forms. Funny thing is, the employee really makes $500 per week in cash. Odd hugh? Maybe that family really isn’t living in the poverty that the statistic alone seems to support. Illegal immigrants, who are at an all time high, make up a huge portion of those on food stamps. Statistics can be misleading.

Unemployment is officially at 9.1% but after 99 weeks, you run out of the dole and are no longer counted as unemployed. Real unemployment is around 18%. Check out shadowstats website, if you don't believe me, because the govt fudges the numbers to keep the dumbed down masses in line. Originally Posted by Can I Play Too???

And I can’t wait till the election rhetoric really kicks up and the true unemployment figures like you point out here gets pointed out.

Unless we can keep our jobs from being shipped overseas for a few pennies more, a lot more of us will slip into poverty before it’s all over. Many, many of the jobs lost just won’t be coming back because they are in China, Vietman or some other new horizon third world country.

Not that I even agree with you but that is not what Old-T point .


What he basically said and what scientific studies (as opposed to you Ann Rynd believers and your mystical beliefs) have shown is that it is who you are born to. Who your parents are is the greatest determinate of financial success. So work hard to be born to successful parents would be my advice. That is what the facts bare out. If hard work was the over-riding factor as you suggest, ditch diggers would be much wealthier than bankers. Originally Posted by WTF

Yeah, I figured my point would be over your head.

Naaaaaahhhhh... I worked too hard to get here... I enjoy the view just fine. *BTW... the view is quite real too!


Yea the real view is just as Doove said, you bragging about finishing a few feet ahead of people you started miles ahead. The reality is you not having enough sense to understand that concept.


I have never disputed that fact. * Whether you're born Prince or Pauper.... failing is easy!

Failing is a hell of a lot harder to do if you are born a Prince than if you are born a Pauper. Really that is basic common sense. You may want to believe being born with a silver spoon in your mouth is harder but it is not. You have way more opportunity as a Prince.




I am only deserving of what I have done for myself! * Have I had a little luck along the way? * Absolutely!

Yes but you discount that 'little luck' way more than you should. If you think genes are the end all be all;trade your kid wil some poor ass black famalies kid and see how well your natural born does in life.
Originally Posted by MrGiz

Yeah, I figured my point would be over your head. Originally Posted by pjorourke

Did somebody say something? Originally Posted by pjorourke

I don't doubt it, but mine's not a mental hospital........ HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! Marshall-100 Doove-0 Originally Posted by Marshall

You gotta admit Doove, Every once n'awhile he says something funny.




Not that that makes up for the million other stupid shit he says!

Who are you to impose your moral views on everybody else? You are EXACTLY like the religious people you condemn....HYPOCRISY!
Originally Posted by Marshall

Yes , by golly , you are starting to get it. Your idea's/morals are no better than mine or Doove's or PJ's or Mr Giz. We are all trying to ram our own version of the so called truth down others throat.

Some of you want to tax me with a system that benifits the super wealthy and their cronies. I want no part of that. I argue for a different system but at least I realize that my system is just as distasteful to you as yours is to me.

When will you understand that concept?

Yeah, I figured my point would be over your head. Originally Posted by pjorourke

I think you're confusing "deemed ridiculous" for "over your head".

You gotta admit Doove, Every once n'awhile he says something funny. Originally Posted by WTF

Blind squirrel.